Lifestyle as a general surgery attending

[blu]

I'm not married but hope to be sometime in the near future, and hope to have kids sometime not too far in the future. I'm going into my 4th year in med school and am drawn to GS, but am concerned about how that will affect family life. I've read other posts about family and residency, and it sounds like it's doable if I make balancing the two a priority, and work hard/efficiently. Plus, it may be 6 years before I get married and have kids anyway.

The question I have though (I was previously interested in more "lifestyle" specialties in medicine and not at all interested in GS) is how bad it will be after residency. I have heard some people say "it will suck just as much or worse for several years", and others say "I have a family and it's much easier once residency's over." However, what is the overall look of the landscape? Can I really dictate how I will practice? Will that limit me to working in the boonies?

Thanks,
blu

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[doc05]

are you a man or woman?

 

[Pilot Doc]

Can I really dictate how I will practice? Will that limit me to working in the boonies?

Doc05's question is a good one. For whatever reasons internal or external, women face more obstacles juggling a busy career and family. A corollary question, regardless of your sex, is what your spouse will be doing.

Getting back to your original question. Yes - you can dictate how you practice. Everything is a tradeoff: Location, money, hours, professional satisfaction, patient population. If you can handle a job that's suboptimal in some respect, you should be able to have more controllable hours. The easiest thing to trade away is money. Suppose you work at the VA sfor 5 years while you have little kids. You get 30 days vacation, great benefits, federal holidays, etc. The pay is about $100K. Not great, but with no overhead and all the benfits, it's quite liveable. You'll rarely do a case at nights or on the weekends!

 

[blu]

are you a man or woman?

I'm a man, but I guess for this discussion assume I'm some mix. I get the sense a lot of people respond to this question with the assumption that if I'm a man, I just need to bring the bread home. Say I'm a man who wants to be as hands-on with the kids "as possible," whatever that is. Say my future spouse is someone who will not want to put her career on hold any longer than is necessary (i.e., a few months to recover and breastfeed and all that).

I'm more than willing to trade money (assuming I'll have enough to cover loans) ... location I won't be able to trade. I suppose there are VAs all over the place, especially metro areas, and that those jobs aren't very competitive per se, huh?

So would you say, assuming I'd be willing to earn as little at $100K, that it would be easy, moderately easy, etc, to dictate my practice?

thanks

 

[Celiac Plexus]

any residency will be difficult from a family balancing perspective... i have friends in medicine residencies and GI and cards fellowships who are a the hospital as much or in some cases more than i am. it is correct to think long-term as far as life after residency.

if you are flexible as far as location, you can generally tailor your practice however you want. i know a couple of general surgeons who do mainly breast work... great lifestyle, very good compensation, few inpatient disasters, etc... or you can work as an employee for a salary and have resonably predictable hours.

as far as working for the va and making 100k/yr,... perhaps it is a regional thing, but the va gen surgeon just out of residency at my institution makes about 80% more than that. still not a huge income, but her lifestyle is very good.

the bottom line is that you can structure your practice to reflect your values/priorities without much difficulty if you are flexible. though that is true for any specialty.

best of luck.

 

[blue2000]

My grandma always told me, "you can have anything you want, you just can't have everything you want."

Thinking in these terms, you will be able to find a career in general surgery that meets most of your needs. One of the community general surgeons I know really pays his bills through a relatively "unexciting" practice. Hernias, gallbladders, lots of lumps and bumps, nothing too fancy. A lot of med students feel that he's in some ways wasted all the time and effort he put in, and isn't doing any of the big "sexy" cases of general surgery.

He coaches his son's little league team, goes on vacation, and isn't in house in the middle of the night.

General surgery residency will make you make choices, but if you pick the right program, and you keep your priorities straight, it's not impossible to train as a surgeon and build a family (it may mean giving up all hope of improving your golf game, or knowing about the hot music scene in your area).

Many of us in general surgery are dedicated in being great surgeons, but also having a life outside of it. You won't be the outcast at many problems for tackling the issues you are facing.

Good luck

 

[Dire Straits]

Many of us in general surgery are dedicated in being great surgeons, but also having a life outside of it.

the great surgeons usually don't/didn't have much of a social life (until maybe they retired). the very good surgeons may, but the great ones that you hear about usually have their career and research as top priority over everything else (including family).

 

[blue2000]

the great surgeons usually don't/didn't have much of a social life (until maybe they retired). the very good surgeons may, but the great ones that you hear about usually have their career and research as top priority over everything else (including family).

I guess it depends on your definition of great. I don't believe that I will be a DeBake, or another similar giant in the field. Rather, I want to be significantly above average in my ability to perform the technical and intellectual aspects of surgery -- I want to be the kind of surgeon who isn't necessarily a leader in the field, but is a role model and consistently provides a high level of care to my patients, as well as teaching, etc.

I definitely agree, that it is very difficult, if not impossible, to be a giant or other leader in the field and devote the kind of time to a family that I think children deserve. But quiet provision of high quality care is excellence in my book, and that's what I strive for.

 

[blu]

I want to be significantly above average in my ability to perform the technical and intellectual aspects of surgery -- I want to be the kind of surgeon who isn't necessarily a leader in the field, but is a role model and consistently provides a high level of care to my patients, as well as teaching, etc.

Exactly what I'm hoping to be. I don't intend to become a Debakey, but I do intend to be highly skilled and someone my colleagues would trust to treat their family. As far as my greater impact on society, I would be ecstatic to play a contributory or leading role in community or volunteer work. But no, I don't plan on becoming an international superstar.

Thanks for the insights.
b