LIJ vs AECOM/Montefiore

[BCqueen]

Hello All,

I was just wondering what people thought of these two programs compared to one another in terms of the caliber of residents, research opportunities, reputation, facilities, quality of life of residents, patient population, etc. Any info can help!
Thanks!

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[DrWuStar]

I interviewed at both these programs this year. I liked Montefiore better, although I think they are both very solid programs. The residents at Montefiore are REALLY friendly and happy. I've never seen such happy residents. They love their program and have lots of little perks that help towards quality of life - really cheap subsidized housing, a $500/yr stipend for books, 3 free meals per day, free health insurance (I think). They have a protected day of didactics, which the residents seemed to really like because they feel their education is valued over their scut-work for the hospital. The department chair is a really unique guy whose philosophy is that to become good psychiatrists, residents need to see an optimal number of patients and no more that that. They should devote the rest of their time to personal development, whatever that means to them. Consequently, the residents see fewer patients than at other programs and have extremely reasonable hours. Research is not a big part of their program, but they say that things can be arranged if a resident really wants to do research. My main concern about this program was whether the residents are as well trained as at other programs. Most people at other programs will tell you that seeing more patients is important for good training, and that by seeing fewer patients, the residents aren't as well trained. The people at Montefiore seem to really believe in their Chair's philosophy about less patients though, and the residents seem to do fine in the job market. I don't know who to believe about that. This program is in the Bronx. I would not like to live there despite their highly subsidized housing. It's not a bad area; just not my scene. It's a pretty easy commute from the upper east side of Manhattan though, so that is a good option.

I did not like LIJ as much, despite the fact that it is probably a better program objectively. There are a lot more research opportunities than at Montefiore. They have a free standing psych hospital on a larger medical campus, which is a neat combination. They have an adolescent inpatient unit, which interests me. The facilities overall seem kind of run down, but they are doing a lot of building on the campus. Call, hours, and patient load all seem pretty reasonable - on par with most other NYC-area programs. LIJ is located 15 miles outside the city. Some residents live out there, and others commute from Brooklyn or Manhattan. Even though it is further from the city than Montefiore, I think I prefer the location because Brooklyn is a great place to live, and the commute would be pretty easy. Program director seems like a great guy. Lots of energy and ambition for the program, very resident-focused. I didn't get to meet too many residents during my interview day. The few that I met seemed nice, but I didn't really click with them or my other 2 interviewers besides the PD. Everyone was fine, and it seems like a good place, but I didn't feel that spark that I felt at some other programs.

Hope that helps.

 

[DrWuStar]

As I think about the residents a little more, I guess the thing about the LIJ residents is that none of them gave me the impression that they REALLY LOVE their program the way residents at other places have. They all felt like they were getting good training, but residents at a lot of other places I interviewed really gushed about how great their program was and how much they loved it. This could have just been who I met.

 

[Lauraaa]

I haven't interviewed at LIJ yet but about Montefiore I agree with what was written above - I loved it there, the residents are so very happy, administrative staff were so friendly and SO helpful, there is a great family-feel to the program, the perks are great. I was a little concerned about the level of autonomy on the inpatient units b/c they stressed that each unit can run completely without residents, meaning they have time for their own personal development... so I hoped I could get more patient experience and some more autonomy from moonlighting if I ended up matching there. But, it seems that they do not seem to encourage moonlighting, and might not even allow it until the 3rd or 4th year. I'm going to try to email again and confirm this but was this the impression that other people had experienced as well?

 

[maugham]

I'm a resident at LIJ/Zucker Hillside but interviewed at both programs a couple of years ago. I think on many important measures--breadth and diversity of patient population, optimal mix of education and service, availability of mentoring, research oppurtunities--LIJ/Zucker Hillside comes out ahead. The facilities are comparable at both places, not particularly great at either place. Hillside is now much larger--17 residents per year compared 10-12 or so at Montefiore. There may be more cohesiveness at Montefiore, but that may be because there are fewer residents at Monte and residents at Hillside are spread at various sites--Hillside, North Shore and a little bit of Jacobi for ER psychiatry.

Hillside has been an important place for research for many years--John Kane the chairman has more or less brought widespread use of clozapine to the US; Jeffrey Lieberman now chairman at Columbia spent many years here early in his career; other past luminaries like Don Klein(also later of Columbia) and Arthur Rifkin also made their name while working here.

Possible downsides include dreary/boring eastern Queens location, somewhat tired-appearing facilities and lack of brand name/prestige factor compared to other city programs despite the many accomplishments of attendings and graduates as mentioned above.

Montefiore strives hard to please residents--it almost seems to be its main objective, which sounds nice to an applicant. Residents do seem happy, education above service is emphasized quite vociferously even during interviews. I recall the chief resident at Montefiore even making the point that residents may be coddled a little too much. I disagree that volume of patient exposure plays an insignificant role in training, as mentioned by some at Montefiore. I know I have benifitted from working at Hillside, a stand alone psychiatric hospital with 213 beds.

Montefiore has a strong psychodynamic focus. Their inpatient unit at Montefiore is very small, like 20 beds or so. Much of the second year is spent at Bronx State, which is large and typical of most state psych hospitals. I believe they have strong training in substance abuse and geriatrics as well. Hillside was for years a psychoanalytically oriented hospital, but has also made important contributions to psychopharmacology as well and now is truly a balanced program.

There was a palpable tightness to the residents when I interviewed at Montefiore, but what can feel like a nice family vibe to some may seem a little cloying and suffocating to others. Hillside residents maintain close ties to each other as well but that may not be as evident on interview day for whatever reason.

As for competitiveness, I think Hillside suffers a little because of its location and lack of "name" despite very good didactics, carefully thought out rotation schedules and numerous research opportunities. Several residents in our class chose Hillside over Montefiore; I'm sure others may choose differently. Montefiore makes a strong impression on interview day--I think people respond strongly to its not-so-subtle message of "you won't work hard here, and the teaching is strong." It may also benefit a little from the strength of Montefiore's local reputation in other departments. I've heard Montefiore refuses to interview those from DO schools, although for years they took a sizable number of FMGs. I think this is curious as there are many more prestigious programs that have taken DOs. Hillside does have a few DOs among its 60+ residents, and one or two FMGs. Most are MDs from Northeast schools.

Overall, I think both programs are strong and you'd get good training at either one. I obviousy have biases and please don't take what I have to say as definitive in any way. Good luck choosing.