Lindsay Clancy

Started by Bittersteel
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Bittersteel

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Not looking to get into the legal aspect, moreso the medical, specifically how the physician fact witnesses were treated by the defense.

This case is very harmful. I'll be practicing even more conservatively than I already do. Probably will refer more pedi NAT cases. Order more psych evaluations. Oh, and ill never start an SSRI from the ED ever again.

When defense counsel will tear you apart over a comma in your note like that poor psychiatrist, theres no alternative.
 
Cliff notes:
-Middle class white woman systematically murders her three children, then tries to kill herself (fails at the last part). This is in the midst of post partum depression/anxiety.

-After she realizes she failed at suicide, her defense team admits to the killings but tries to argue that she suffered an isolated 18 minute psychotic break so is not guilty by reason of insanity

-The American public buys this hook line and sinker as evidence that the medical system “failed her” (even though she had a nanny, multiple psychiatrists, was non compliant, lied to her psychiatrists, was doctor shopping for benzos as the only med she would take, and of course wasn’t actually psychotic by any reasonable metric).
 
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skougess said:
Cliff notes:


-The American public buys this hook line and sinker as evidence that the medical system “failed her” (even though she had a nanny, multiple psychiatrists, was non compliant, lied to her psychiatrists, was doctor shopping for benzos as the only med she would take, and of course wasn’t actually psychotic by any reasonable metric).
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Good summary

Her parents have a go fund me that's received over a million dollars. What the h$ll.
 
skougess said:
Cliff notes:
-Middle class white woman systematically murders her three children, then tries to kill herself (fails at the last part). This is in the midst of post partum depression/anxiety.

-After she realizes she failed at suicide, her defense team admits to the killings but tries to argue that she suffered an isolated 18 minute psychotic break so is not guilty by reason of insanity

-The American public buys this hook line and sinker as evidence that the medical system “failed her” (even though she had a nanny, multiple psychiatrists, was non compliant, lied to her psychiatrists, was doctor shopping for benzos as the only med she would take, and of course wasn’t actually psychotic by any reasonable metric).
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left out that all of her medical providers who were prescribing her various psych meds (and there are like 10 of them) were all marched out as "witnesses" in the criminal trial. The issue is that most/all of them are also named in the civil malpractice lawsuit she has where she suggests all of them failed her and are to blame for her killing her kids. So all of these psychiatrists and ED doctors and psychologists and etc etc etc get marched onto the stand and they all do some variation of "I am not answering **** on the record. refer to my written documentation for the answers." Some of them come off as very confident and well coached, some of them come off as dinguses - weirdly they are all doing the same thing, its just funny how one can say the same thing and come off confident and the other comes off as a jerk. One poor psychiatrists cracks and starts answering questions and the prosecution rips her a new dingus. Including suggesting that "patient denies delusional thoughts, suicidal thoughts and plans" (or something like that) as meaning she had no delusional thoughts, but DID had suicidal thoughts and plans. Suggesting that if she meant no suicidal thought and no suicidal plans she should have explicitly put "no" in front of each of those things, or at least used a comma between each individual thing otherwise the non-oxford comma-users among us might interpret it wrong.
 
DocEspana said:
left out that all of her medical providers who were prescribing her various psych meds (and there are like 10 of them) were all marched out as "witnesses" in the criminal trial. The issue is that most/all of them are also named in the civil malpractice lawsuit she has where she suggests all of them failed her and are to blame for her killing her kids. So all of these psychiatrists and ED doctors and psychologists and etc etc etc get marched onto the stand and they all do some variation of "I am not answering **** on the record. refer to my written documentation for the answers." Some of them come off as very confident and well coached, some of them come off as dinguses - weirdly they are all doing the same thing, its just funny how one can say the same thing and come off confident and the other comes off as a jerk. One poor psychiatrists cracks and starts answering questions and the prosecution rips her a new dingus. Including suggesting that "patient denies delusional thoughts, suicidal thoughts and plans" (or something like that) as meaning she had no delusional thoughts, but DID had suicidal thoughts and plans. Suggesting that if she meant no suicidal thought and no suicidal plans she should have explicitly put "no" in front of each of those things, or at least used a comma between each individual thing otherwise the non-oxford comma-users among us might interpret it wrong.
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Oh yes, according to Tik Tok, the ER physician that saved her life should lose her license because on the stand she referred back to the written chart on specific vital signs during the visit that were referenced by the defense attorney.

The psychiatrist also, since she used a comma to separate multiple negatives in a row, and also because she didn’t cross reference the alert/oriented/reliable patient’s husband to potentially involuntarily commit the patient, despite her own reassuring exam, à la 1950s psychiatry. The tik tok “feminists” have NO idea what they are actually arguing for.
 
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Being pseudo-local to the case, it is being followed like a top-tier sports event (similar to Karen Read), and it seems every day multiple people want to ask me about it, especially among nursing staff. I know enough people that know involved providers (say one degree of separation) that aside from my typical disinterest in this type of case, I've been doubly disinterested in the way the medical team was completely thrown under the bus, repeatedly, not just in trial but in the massive public/media circus around it...
 
Bittersteel said:
Not looking to get into the legal aspect, moreso the medical, specifically how the physician fact witnesses were treated by the defense.

This case is very harmful. I'll be practicing even more conservatively than I already do. Probably will refer more pedi NAT cases. Order more psych evaluations. Oh, and ill never start an SSRI from the ED ever again.

When defense counsel will tear you apart over a comma in your note like that poor psychiatrist, theres no alternative.
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.... you start SSRIs from the ED?
 
mmmnmmm said:
.... you start SSRIs from the ED?
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skougess said:
In a sane medico-legal world this would be easily done. In our current climate, it’s been established even before this case that this amounts to malpractice if there’s a bad outcome.
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Under very select circumstances with patients whom I think are reliable and can see their PCP within 14 days I have prescribed a low dose SSRI after screening for mania.

Like I said, never again however.
 
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The only reason this case exists is to benefit lawyers. Clancy murdered her kids. She knew what she did was wrong. She proved that with meticulous planning and by accepting the death penalty afterwards by slashing her wrists and jumping out a window.

Then along come some lawyers who saw great fame and future revenue from blaming everyone (doctors included) but the one person who is responsible. Now all of a sudden she has doubts and asks everyone to feel sorry for her. "She's not responsible. Everyone is responsible. So NO ONE will be held responsible!" they say. That's not justice.

Instead of receiving just punishment like the death penalty or at a minimum life in an awful prison with crazy murderers just like herself, she'll be able to live in a cushy hospital bed, doped up on xanax and mood stabilizers, with an emotional support dog, therapy and social interaction with medial staff, patients and family. The whole time she'll be waiting for the day some terrible, awful, smug panel of "experts" will come along and virtue signal, "She's better! We're so smart and so skilled, we've CURED HER! She's no longer a threat. Release her!"

And she'll be released. Because the had been found "not guilty" by reason of insanity. And once they decided they've removed the "insanity" part, she's out. Once time has passed and everyone has forgotten, it will happen. You know it will happen. It already happened to the lunatic who shot President Reagan in the heart. “Cured, no longer a threat.” Free and clear of all oversight and restrictions in 2022.

Countless men have murdered during throes of hormonal (testosterone) rage. Countless men have murdered during psychosis. Jefferey Dahmer, Ted Bundy and the BTK Killer were not sane. Countless people on drugs, alcohol and in other states of insanity, temporary or otherwise have committed countless crimes and have been held accountable. Lindsay Clancy should be no different.

If she had murdered a litter of baby kittens while being depressed postpartum, embezzled money or molested a child while "post partum" no one would be wearing pink shirts, holding vigils and tearfully lining up to set her free. But she did the only thing more horrible than all those things combined. She made her 3 beautiful children spend their last moments on Earth looking up at mommy, the one person they loved and trusted the most, trying to figure out why she was the monster snuffing the life and air out of their little helpless bodies. They never got the second chance their murderer appears likely to get.

And she'll eventually go free. Because of some lawyers who manipulated some jurors to believe everyone and everything is to blame except the one person who is to blame.

If she can go crazy once and commit a mass murder she can do it again in the future while "hormonal" or under a severe life stress. Someone needs to be held accountable for the murder of these three children. Not the doctors. Not the "system." Not "insanity." The only person that can and should be held responsible is Lindsay Clancy.

Hopefully a new trial will bring a better prosecutor, a better set of jurors and a better jury.
 
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Birdstrike said:
The only reason this case exists is to benefit lawyers. Clancy murdered her kids. She knew what she did was wrong. She proved that with meticulous planning and by accepting the death penalty afterwards by slashing her wrists and jumping out a window.

Then along come some lawyers who saw great fame and future revenue from blaming everyone (doctors included) but the one person who is responsible. Now all of a sudden she has doubts and asks everyone to feel sorry for her. "She's not responsible. Everyone is responsible. So NO ONE will be held responsible!" they say. That's not justice.

Instead of receiving just punishment like the death penalty or at a minimum life in an awful prison with crazy murderers just like herself, she'll be able to live in a cushy hospital bed, doped up on xanax and mood stabilizers, getting emotional support therapy and social interaction with medial staff, patients and family. The whole time she'll be waiting for the day some terrible, awful, naive panel of "experts" will come along and decide "She's better! We're so smart and so skilled, we've CURED HER! She's no longer a threat. Release her!"

And she'll be released. Because the had been found "not guilty" by reason of insanity. And once they decided they've removed the "insanity" part, she's out. Once time has passed and everyone has forgotten, it will happen. You know it will happen. It already happened to the lunatic who **** President Reagan in the heart. Released! Free and clear of all oversight and restrictions in 2022.

Countless men have murdered during throws of hormonal (testosterone) rage. Countless men have murdered during psychosis. Jefferey Dahmer, Ted Bundy and the BTK Killer were not sane. Countless people on drugs, alcohol and in other states of insanity, temporary or otherwise have committed countless crimes and have been held accountable. Lindsay Clancy should be no different.

If she had murdered a litter of baby kittens while being depressed postpartum, embezzled money or molested a child while "post partum" no one would be wearing pink shirts, holding vigils and tearfully lining up to set her free. But she did the only thing more horrible than all those things combined. She made her 3 beautiful children spend their last moments on Earth looking up at mommy, the one person they loved the most, trying to figure out why she was the monster snuffing the life and air out of their little helpless bodies.

And she'll eventually go free. Because of some lawyers who manipulated some jurors and blamed everybody, so no one could be blamed.

If she can go crazy once and commit a mass murder she can do it again in the future while "hormonal" or under a severe life stress. Someone needs to be held accountable for the murder of these three children. Not the doctors. Not the "system." Not "insanity." The only person that can and should be held responsible is Lindsay Clancy.

Hopefully a new trial will bring a better prosecutor, a better set of jurors and a better jury.
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I don't think it will be possible to gather a jury for a retrial that is uncontaminated. Furthermore, I dont think you can gather 12 non-NPCs to convict.

In MA you cannot have a bench trial for first degree murder (but can trust a panel of idiots that weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty??).

I think the best hope is for a bench trial for 2nd degree murder. The judge can then give 20 yrs for each count and she can spend 60 years in prison.
 
www.yahoo.com

Frankfort mother charged with first-degree murder of 2-year-old son

UPDATE: WGN News obtained new court documents Friday which provide more details, alleging the mother was “very invested” with the Lindsay Clancy case. FRANKFORT, Ill. (WGN) — Felony charges have been ...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

The Clancy trial is much bigger than just Lindsay Clancy and justice for her children. Not only should Clancy receive immediate death but it’s important to show the rest that this absolutely won’t be tolerated. The one sane juror is going to be an even bigger hero than we realize.
 
Bittersteel said:
I don't think it will be possible to gather a jury for a retrial that is uncontaminated. Furthermore, I dont think you can gather 12 non-NPCs to convict.

In MA you cannot have a bench trial for first degree murder (but can trust a panel of idiots that weren't smart enough to get out of jury duty??).

I think the best hope is for a bench trial for 2nd degree murder. The judge can then give 20 yrs for each count and she can spend 60 years in prison.
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I agree. If they were able to find 12 people so detached from social media and the news to the point they didn’t have any knowledge of Lindsay Clancy then those 12 people would find her guilty in the highest degree in about 15 seconds.
 
dozitgetchahi said:
To make matters worse, I’ve talked to a couple of friends who are buying into the conspiracy theory that the husband is actually the murderer - directed by his OB/GYN girlfriend.
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The “husband did it” theory is so comically implausible in this case that even Lindsay Clancy and her lawyers think it’s stupid. Even they fully and openly admit she strangled her kids. They’re just trying to evade her being held accountable for it.
 
Birdstrike said:
The “husband did it” theory is so comically implausible in this case that even Lindsay Clancy and her lawyers think it’s stupid. Even they fully and openly admit she strangled her kids. They’re just trying to evade her being held accountable for it.
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They are projecting their "trauma" from their "emotionally abusive" exes.
 
JacobMcCandles said:
www.yahoo.com

Frankfort mother charged with first-degree murder of 2-year-old son

UPDATE: WGN News obtained new court documents Friday which provide more details, alleging the mother was “very invested” with the Lindsay Clancy case. FRANKFORT, Ill. (WGN) — Felony charges have been ...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

The Clancy trial is much bigger than just Lindsay Clancy and justice for her children. Not only should Clancy receive immediate death but it’s important to show the rest that this absolutely won’t be tolerated. The one sane juror is going to be an even bigger hero than we realize.
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That lone juror who wanted to convict is a hero for standing up to the rest of the insufferable jurors.

I can only imagine the *****ic co jurors going after him and that nagging jury foreman.
 
JacobMcCandles said:
I agree. If they were able to find 12 people so detached from social media and the news to the point they didn’t have any knowledge of Lindsay Clancy then those 12 people would find her guilty in the highest degree in about 15 seconds.
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Agree.

Interestingly, there’s a women who did the exact same thing Clancy did 3 years to the day before in Ireland.

Deirdre Morley. Nurse. Depressed. 3 kids. Strangles them. Attempts suicide. Husband comes home. Found not guilty be reason of insanity.

Both were very capable of planning and killing multiple kids while their husbands were out, then somehow conveniently “fail” to kill themselves. They are then able to masterfully shift gears to manipulating the legal system to evade punishment. This is all very calculated.
 
Birdstrike said:
Agree.

Interestingly, there’s a women who did the exact same thing Clancy did 3 years to the day before in Ireland.

Deirdre Morley. Nurse. Depressed. 3 kids. Strangles them. Attempts suicide. Husband comes home. Found not guilty be reason of insanity.

Both were very capable of planning and killing multiple kids while their husbands were out, then somehow conveniently “fail” to kill themselves. They are then able to masterfully shift gears to manipulating the legal system to evade punishment. This is all very calculated.
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The fact that 11 of 12 were firmly on one side reflects a moral rot in american society that I didnt think was this severe.
 
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The defense claims that Lindsay Clancy heard this lone voice (of course male because why not fully commit) which instructed her to kill her kids. Never heard it before or after. And immediately acted on this lone voice going as far as sending her husband out of the house.

This doesn't cause people to scratch their heads at how convenient that is?

She was non compliant, doctor shopping and just a cold blooded murderer.

Edit:

The other issue is they keep confusing things by calling it post partum psychosis. The media is running with it as well. She was 8 months postpartum. I don't think this was the situation but it really draws at women's emotional heart strings by portraying it that way.
 
All I hear from people (well-educated, normal, "sane" people) in real life is that the "medical system failed her," and "post-partum psychosis is so neglected."
This has become SUCH a cultural war political issue at this point that if you are on the side of blaming her people label you a far-right wing nut. That's not fair but it's how the narrative has gone. I've learned to just keep my mouth shut about this when presenting the facts of the case and that yes, the medical system sure fails a lot of people, but not this privileged individual.
 
Bittersteel said:
The fact that 11 of 12 were firmly on one side reflects a moral rot in american society that I didnt think was this severe.
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I agree, but in some locations and political persuasions the moral rot is much more advanced. I'm certain that where I live, this women would be efficiently convicted of murder and be sentenced to at least life in prison if not the death penalty. Even if a crafty lawyer happened to get a sympathetic OJ jury, in my state we have a Guilty But Mentally Ill verdict as an option and it has been used in similar cases (i.e. Suzanna Browne Simpson, May 14, 2013).
 
anonperson said:
The defense claims that Lindsay Clancy heard this lone voice (of course male because why not fully commit) which instructed her to kill her kids. Never heard it before or after. And immediately acted on this lone voice going as far as sending her husband out of the house.

This doesn't cause people to scratch their heads at how convenient that is?

She was non compliant, doctor shopping and just a cold blooded murderer.

Edit:

The other issue is they keep confusing things by calling it post partum psychosis. The media is running with it as well. She was 8 months postpartum. I don't think this was the situation but it really draws at women's emotional heart strings by portraying it that way.
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This is why NPCs shouldn't serve on juries. They are too swayed by feelings.
 
anonperson said:
The defense claims that Lindsay Clancy heard this lone voice (of course male because why not fully commit) which instructed her to kill her kids. Never heard it before or after. And immediately acted on this lone voice going as far as sending her husband out of the house.

This doesn't cause people to scratch their heads at how convenient that is?

She was non compliant, doctor shopping and just a cold blooded murderer.

Edit:

The other issue is they keep confusing things by calling it post partum psychosis. The media is running with it as well. She was 8 months postpartum. I don't think this was the situation but it really draws at women's emotional heart strings by portraying it that way.
Click to expand...
Yes. One of the medical witnesses testified that he found it very unusual that she never claimed to hear voices but they turned on right before the murders and turned off afterwards never to come again. Convenient, isn't it?
 
Stumpyman said:
All I hear from people (well-educated, normal, "sane" people) in real life is that the "medical system failed her," and "post-partum psychosis is so neglected."
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Yes. All those things can be true, yet she can still be responsible and held accountable for her actions.

There will always be a system that "fails people." There will always be emotional crises, even psychosis, that tempt people to act terribly. It can't be a running get out of jail free card until we live in a Utopia.
 
Birdstrike said:
Yes. One of the medical witnesses testified that he found it very unusual that she never claimed to hear voices but they turned on right before the murders and turned off afterwards never to come again. Convenient, isn't it?
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Its also well known in psychiatric literature that commission of the commanded act does not typically alleviate the auditory hallucination.
 
Bittersteel said:
Its also well known in psychiatric literature that commission of the commanded act does not typically alleviate the auditory hallucination.
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Yes. And just because you hear a voice or have a thought, since when is a person pre-determined to act on it? We live with people telling us to do things all the time and don't do them. We have wishes, desires and impulses in our heads but often ignore them. Depressed and schizophrenic people often have ideations they don't act on. Most never commit diabolical acts. But if your murder brings attention to a social hot button issue then you were a "helpless victim!"
 
I just can’t get over how backwards this is for women’s mental health. The defense argument is essentially that women have no agency or self control in the post partum period. Zero. They argue the psychiatrists should have reached out to her spouse and family, even when there was no indication to do so, and then involuntarily commit her based on their possible concerns. That’s not how psychiatric care should ever work unless you want to go back to the Rosemary Kennedy days. Insanely ironic that it’s the so-called feminists championing Lindsay Clancy.

As someone else said, psychiatric care in this country is very lacking, but I’m actually astonished by how well the system DID work for Lindsay Clancy. There is nothing in her care that should have changed.
 
skougess said:
I just can’t get over how backwards this is for women’s mental health. The defense argument is essentially that women have no agency or self control in the post partum period. Zero. They argue the psychiatrists should have reached out to her spouse and family, even when there was no indication to do so, and then involuntarily commit her based on their possible concerns. That’s not how psychiatric care should ever work unless you want to go back to the Rosemary Kennedy days. Insanely ironic that it’s the so-called feminists championing Lindsay Clancy.
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A true feminist would want her to get the electric chair.
 
i don’t know much about the case. But i have at least one of my nurses and my tech s talking about how she’s being framed and didn’t do it.

The tech said she’s seen the entire trial and she was absolutely convinced that she wasn’t guilty.

What up with that? Is there actual doubt in her being the culprit?
 
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cyanide12345678 said:
i don’t know much about the case. But i have at least one of my nurses and my tech s talking about how she’s being framed and didn’t do it.

The tech said she’s seen the entire trial and she was absolutely convinced that she wasn’t guilty.

What up with that? Is there actual doubt in her being the culprit?
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Nah. It’s entirely clear she physically carried out the killings.

Could someone go down the rabbit hole of “what is insanity” and perhaps argue she was? Sure.

But she did it.
 
I have not followed this case too much but no matter what, 3 kids are dead and they did not strangle themselves. She admitted to doing it and jumped out the window so those who thinks she was framed just reinforces my beliefs that there are some unreasonable insane people in this world.

What is up with people supporting her? what if she killed their kids? Are there really people this dumb?

She is paralyzed which is some form of punishment. Regardless, she either needs to go to Jail for a long time or in a mental institution forever. For 11/12 "reasonable" people to acquit for reason of insanity is just wild. I expected the hung jury to be majority conviction but my faith in humanity continues to dwindle.
 
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I think some of the support for her is (misplaced) anger about generations of post-partum depression being ignored, or just our society expecting women to happily care for an infant 24/7 for weeks alone while maintaining a household and outward appearances of joy.

It’s misplaced, but I do get why people want to have sympathy for a stressed mother. Defense and social media was wise to manipulatively tap into this thread.
 
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