Locum General Surgeon?

[Misterioso]

Are there any benefits to working as a locum general surgeon instead of in private practice or as an attending at a hospital?

Is it possible to work only as a locum surgeon and make $100K/year or more?

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[The_Sensei]

I have heard of it. If you want to locum and make the big bucks, anesthesia is the way to go. I just finished a 1 month gig and made $46k NET. 1 month my friend!

 

[Misterioso]

I have heard of it. If you want to locum and make the big bucks, anesthesia is the way to go. I just finished a 1 month gig and made $46k NET. 1 month my friend!

Wow that's some good cash for only a month's work. Is it hard to get locum jobs in anesthesia?

Anybody work locum general surgery?

 

[toxic-megacolon]

Are there any benefits to working as a locum general surgeon instead of in private practice or as an attending at a hospital?

Is it possible to work only as a locum surgeon and make $100K/year or more?

You can moonlight as an attending (usually taking trauma call) and make 2 or 3 grand over a single WEEKEND--something I'm personally considering. The big downside to working this way is that you'd rarely operate, and its possible you might become rusty with your surgical skill and hands, especially if you do this early in your career.

 

[Misterioso]

You can moonlight as an attending (usually taking trauma call) and make 2 or 3 grand over a single WEEKEND--something I'm personally considering. The big downside to working this way is that you'd rarely operate, and its possible you might become rusty with your surgical skill and hands, especially if you do this early in your career.

Why would you rarely operate if you are taking trauma call?

Also, would you need to be fellowship trained in trauma surgery to take trauma call?

 

[toxic-megacolon]

Why would you rarely operate if you are taking trauma call?

Attending trauma surgeons usually either 1) sit on their butt in the call room or 2) sit on their butt next to the CT Scanner with the radiologist. Most trauma is non-operative, and at community hospitals even less trauma is operative.

Also, would you need to be fellowship trained in trauma surgery to take trauma call?

Not at most community or non-academic hospitals.

 

[coffeebeing]

You can moonlight as an attending (usually taking trauma call) and make 2 or 3 grand over a single WEEKEND--something I'm personally considering. The big downside to working this way is that you'd rarely operate, and its possible you might become rusty with your surgical skill and hands, especially if you do this early in your career.

2 or 3 grand over a single weekend? How do you get a gig like that--is it something you can do right out of residency?

 

[Pilot Doc]

2 or 3 grand over a single weekend? How do you get a gig like that--is it something you can do right out of residency?

Sure. Any grad from a decent GS program should be a competent trauma surgeon.

 

[Misterioso]

If that's the case, wouldn't you make a lot more just taking trauma call if you're getting 2-3K for a couple days work?

Say about 2K for 2 days work = 6K for working approximately 6 days/wk = 6K/wk x 4wk/month = 24K/month = 288K/year (theoretically if you work without taking any extended vacations)

What's the catch?

 

[Pilot Doc]

If that's the case, wouldn't you make a lot more just taking trauma call if you're getting 2-3K for a couple days work?

Say about 2K for 2 days work = 6K for working approximately 6 days/wk = 6K/wk x 4wk/month = 24K/month = 288K/year (theoretically if you work without taking any extended vacations)

What's the catch?

1) Most people hate trauma. It's hard to describe how incredibly difficult a patient population this is. My personal example: Pt comes in with a gunshot wound. First thing he says: "Don't go cutting my clothes off. Every time I come in here you cut my clothes off."
2) There is a reason that these places pay so well for trauma. Either the patient population, practice environment or location are undesireable (sometimes all 3).
3) Frequently these places may have some trauma coverage, but not as much as they want, so they pay for every third weekend, etc. (i.e. It would be hard to find a full time job paying $1K/day for trauma)
4) $288/yr is good but not great for general surgery. You can make that same living taking out gall bladders from 9-5.
5) As mentioned above, full time trauma outside of a major trauma center would likely cause your technical skills to wither away.

 

[toxic-megacolon]

If that's the case, wouldn't you make a lot more just taking trauma call if you're getting 2-3K for a couple days work?

Say about 2K for 2 days work = 6K for working approximately 6 days/wk = 6K/wk x 4wk/month = 24K/month = 288K/year (theoretically if you work without taking any extended vacations)

What's the catch?

Working 6 days a week continously would be 144 hours/week. That's the catch.

 

[Pilot Doc]

Working 6 days a week continously would be 144 hours/week. That's the catch.

I think that's doable physically in many places if you were just covering trauma. You could take home call for a Level II or III trauma center and probably have a decent # of no hitters. What sort of life you'd have tied to a beeper 24-6 is another issue.

 

[coffeebeing]

I'm still stuck on the 2-3 grand per weekend. Say you only work weekends, that's still 3K/week x 4 weeks/month = 12K/month = 144K/year! Not too shabby if you have more than one income and want the rest of the week to do whatever you want (like spending time with your family). 144K/year may not be a lot by physicans' standards, but I can't imagine another profession where you can make more in two days than what most people make full time. So are there surgeons who actually do this or is this totally theoretical?

 

[toxic-megacolon]

I'm still stuck on the 2-3 grand per weekend. Say you only work weekends, that's still 3K/week x 4 weeks/month = 12K/month = 144K/year! Not too shabby if you have more than one income and want the rest of the week to do whatever you want (like spending time with your family). 144K/year may not be a lot by physicans' standards, but I can't imagine another profession where you can make more in two days than what most people make full time. So are there surgeons who actually do this or is this totally theoretical?

Because most surgeons love getting up at the butt-crack of dawn and working all day, they don't feel "right" if they don't work everyday. As far as trauma surgery goes, seven to nine 24 hour shifts a month is pretty standard full time, again not in an academic center. (academic medicine is considerd more 'prestigious' and you have to work long hours in that setting).

 

[tussy]

I'm still stuck on the 2-3 grand per weekend. Say you only work weekends, that's still 3K/week x 4 weeks/month = 12K/month = 144K/year! Not too shabby if you have more than one income and want the rest of the week to do whatever you want (like spending time with your family). 144K/year may not be a lot by physicans' standards, but I can't imagine another profession where you can make more in two days than what most people make full time. So are there surgeons who actually do this or is this totally theoretical?

I haven't killed myself for the past 5 years of my surgery residency working more than 100 hours per week and perfecting my surgery skills so that i can only work 2 days a week doing very boring call and making less than most family doctors.

I don't think any surgeon would be happy doing this. I know people who do some of those shifts (and i myself plan to do some during my fellowship next year) to make a few extra bucks, but for full time? that would be painful.

 

[Misterioso]

I guess it's the old saying about what you want out of life. Working only
2 days/week and making about $150K is not a bad gig, considering that lots of family physicians have to work full time to make that much money.

Plus you could always work 1 or more days during the rest of the week somewhere else if you want to make more.

Besides I keep hearing that no matter how fascinating the operations you are doing are, they eventually get routine after a while of doing them. So in the end the whole novelty aspect becomes a wash.

 

[toxic-megacolon]

I haven't killed myself for the past 5 years of my surgery residency working more than 100 hours per week and perfecting my surgery skills so that i can only work 2 days a week doing very boring call and making less than most family doctors.

I don't think any surgeon would be happy doing this. I know people who do some of those shifts (and i myself plan to do some during my fellowship next year) to make a few extra bucks, but for full time? that would be painful.

The flip side to that is saying "I didnt' kill myslf for 5 years of residency working 100 hours a week, just so I could keep waking up at 5am for the rest of my life..."

 

[coffeebeing]

The flip side to that is saying "I didnt' kill myslf for 5 years of residency working 100 hours a week, just so I could keep waking up at 5am for the rest of my life..."

Exactly. I'm thinking that while I'm young, I don't mind working my ass off and doing what I love. But at some point in my life, I'd like to have the option of cutting back my hours to pursue other interests (such as starting a family or getting involved in health policy). I'm glad that shift work is becoming standard in at least trauma surgery; just because one wants to be a surgeon shouldn't have to mean that you have to give up everything else in life.

 

[Pilot Doc]

I see the attraction of working 2 days a week for $150K, especially if, for instance, you had small kids and an MD spouse.

You just have to realize that working part-time trauma for any period of time would make it difficult to resume a more typical operative practice.

 

[The_Sensei]

Wow that's some good cash for only a month's work. Is it hard to get locum jobs in anesthesia?

Anybody work locum general surgery?

Ridiculously easy....I really didn't work that hard to make that cash. If I wanted to really kill myself, I could EASILY pull in $60k.....Easily.

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

I really didn't work that hard to make that cash

Isn't that anesthesia in a nutshell?


Sorry, couldn't resist....

 

[The_Sensei]

Isn't that anesthesia in a nutshell?


Sorry, couldn't resist....

No apology necessary. That IS anesthesia in a nutshell; which is why I am an anesthesiologist. See you on the beach.....oh wait, no I won't.....you'll be in the OR!

 

[Winged Scapula]

You can also moonlight/work locum doing general surgery call at small community or rural programs, making the same amount of money over a weekend. Friend of mine did this, while an attending laparoscopic surgeon and made some good $$.

 

[toxic-megacolon]

Isn't that anesthesia in a nutshell?


Sorry, couldn't resist....

C'mon now! Moving the bed up and down for the surgeon is hard work!!!


(I know I'm giong to catch hell for that comment)

 

[The_Sensei]

C'mon now! Moving the bed up and down for the surgeon is hard work!!!


(I know I'm giong to catch hell for that comment)

Jealousy rears it's ugly head 😱

 

[Pir8DeacDoc]

sure, jealousy... that's the one. Just keep telling yourself that.

 

[Misterioso]

Well this thread was getting informative before the surgery vs. anesthesiology pissing contest took it off track.

Please let's keep on topic. Thanks

 

[The_Sensei]

sure, jealousy... that's the one. Just keep telling yourself that.

Don't need to keep telling myself that..........its evident by the miserable surgeons I see every day who complain incessantly about reimbursement, hours, etc. I just walk out whistling at 3:00 p.m. as I'm turning off my pager. No need to worry about after hours calls for the patient I just operated on..........

👍

 

[cabinbuilder]

I have a woman surgeon friend who only works as a locum. What she does is come to Fairbanks, Alaska where there is a doctor shortage and covers for the locals who want to take their hunting/camping/fishing/hiking trips in the summer. She only covers in house (there is only one hospital there) and when the summer is over she goes back home to the lower 48. Big money in Alaska, everyone has insurance, no HMO's, higher reimbursement. Lots and lots of tourists in the summer so no shortage of patients.

 

[avgjoe]

I have a woman surgeon friend who only works as a locum. What she does is come to Fairbanks, Alaska where there is a doctor shortage and covers for the locals who want to take their hunting/camping/fishing/hiking trips in the summer. She only covers in house (there is only one hospital there) and when the summer is over she goes back home to the lower 48. Big money in Alaska, everyone has insurance, no HMO's, higher reimbursement. Lots and lots of tourists in the summer so no shortage of patients.

So how much does she make? Does she work the rest of the time?

 

[FliteSurgn]

While awaiting my fulltime gig, I did locums for the VA system right after residency. I basically worked 8-4 M-F and took some call. I negotiated my own rates and made about $1000 per day. I also took some call and made $100 per hour if I had to actually go in. I got $200 per weekend day of call in addition to the $100 per hour. Very cushy.

Locums for surgery (if going through a locums agency) typically pays about $60 per hour. The company charges the practice $120 per hour, but keeps the rest to cover malpractice, travel expenses, admin, recruiting, etc.

 

[cabinbuilder]

So how much does she make? Does she work the rest of the time?

I am sorry that I am not privvy to that info. I know that my other friend in Alaska who is a general surgeon makes between 700-900K/yr. My "mom" who is internal medicine makes about 600K/yr

My husband who is in nursing makes triple what he makes in PA. He just worked over Christmas break and made in 1 week what he makes in a month in PA. You should be able to extrapolate from there. If you are able to keep your overhead low you can make quite a bit. And remember there are no taxes in Alaska.

 

[supercut]

Locum is becoming an increasngly viable option. There is a variety of types of postions. Some are substiting for surgeons while on vaction for shorter periods of time, others are longer term, often in areas that have difficulty hiring. A major benefit is flexibility...you can take a locum assignement, then not work at all for a peroid of time, then take another assignement.

There is even a free magazine dedicated to locum work. It's called locum life. Google it and you'll find their web site.