LOI?

[maxwell_edison]

Hi everyone,

I am trying to figure out if I should send an LOI, and what about my situation to discuss. I'm accepted to a couple excellent schools already, but my first choice (in terms of school and location) is a California (home state) school with much later decisions. I interviewed a few weeks back, and it sounds like there is a big batch of acceptances in late March/early April. However, it also sounds that they can string it along until very late in the cycle with the de-facto wait list.

My dilemma is that my significant other, who will be moving with me, needs to get a job as a high school teacher, which has a fairly limited time frame of hiring, especially for the types of positions she's most interested in. The schools she's gotten interest from will probably need to know by sometime in early April, and she can't really blow them off and leave them without a teacher if she accepts, and I am not accepted. It becomes much harder to find something late in the game, and after July, it becomes extremely hard.

I am concerned that I will pick a school, and then get am acceptance to my top school too late to change. In another situation it could be "Sure, I can be there by Monday, we'll crash at my friend's place till we get an apartment and my SO will start looking for a job" but I think I will need to make an absolute decision much earlier than most people.

So the question is: Should I send a LOI, and if so, to whom, when, and how much should I relay?

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[Tenk]

Determine time X where you need to decide by. If you haven't heard by time X, call the school and talk to the dean of admissions or someone who actually has power and tell them your situation. Don't say girlfriend/boyfriend/whatever, just say fiance or spouse as it carries a lot more weight and makes you seem more stable. Also don't beg or plead or blow smoke up their ass as they get that all the time. Just be honest and sincere. If they say no, move on with your life and never look back. As simple as that. Good luck.

 

[gyngyn]

Hi everyone,

I am trying to figure out if I should send an LOI, and what about my situation to discuss. I'm accepted to a couple excellent schools already, but my first choice (in terms of school and location) is a California (home state) school with much later decisions. I interviewed a few weeks back, and it sounds like there is a big batch of acceptances in late March/early April. However, it also sounds that they can string it along until very late in the cycle with the de-facto wait list.

My dilemma is that my significant other, who will be moving with me, needs to get a job as a high school teacher, which has a fairly limited time frame of hiring, especially for the types of positions she's most interested in. The schools she's gotten interest from will probably need to know by sometime in early April, and she can't really blow them off and leave them without a teacher if she accepts, and I am not accepted. It becomes much harder to find something late in the game, and after July, it becomes extremely hard.

I am concerned that I will pick a school, and then get am acceptance to my top school too late to change. In another situation it could be "Sure, I can be there by Monday, we'll crash at my friend's place till we get an apartment and my SO will start looking for a job" but I think I will need to make an absolute decision much earlier than most people.

So the question is: Should I send a LOI, and if so, to whom, when, and how much should I relay?

The only "LOI" that has a potential impact is one made around the time that waitlist movement has started (at a school with an unranked waitlist) when one is holding an acceptance at a "better" school.

 

[maxwell_edison]

Determine time X where you need to decide by. If you haven't heard by time X, call the school and talk to the dean of admissions or someone who actually has power and tell them your situation. Don't say girlfriend/boyfriend/whatever, just say fiance or spouse as it carries a lot more weight and makes you seem more stable. Also don't beg or plead or blow smoke up their ass as they get that all the time. Just be honest and sincere. If they say no, move on with your life and never look back. As simple as that. Good luck.

Thanks, that's a good plan. Wait till the main batch of acceptances go out, and ideally I'll just get in. Then if not, call to get an answer.

"Partner" is usually a good term I'd think too. It's what I've used thus far.

The only "LOI" that has a potential impact is one made at or around the time that waitlist movement has started when one is holding an acceptance at a "better" school.

Thankfully, that's basically my situation. Ideally I can hold out till mid/late April, and I'm into the school ranked a couple higher.

 

[p0gono]

The only "LOI" that has a potential impact is one made around the time that waitlist movement has started (at a school with an unranked waitlist) when one is holding an acceptance at a "better" school.

What is "better"? USNWR?
What about Yale vs Penn, or Davis vs Irvine?

 

[JessebenBenjamin]

What is "better"? USNWR?
What about Yale vs Penn, or Davis vs Irvine?

Better can also mean cheaper.

 

[gyngyn]

What is "better"? USNWR?
What about Yale vs Penn, or Davis vs Irvine?

Whatever you define as better. Cheaper could definitely be seen as better.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Hi everyone,

I am trying to figure out if I should send an LOI, and what about my situation to discuss. I'm accepted to a couple excellent schools already, but my first choice (in terms of school and location) is a California (home state) school with much later decisions. I interviewed a few weeks back, and it sounds like there is a big batch of acceptances in late March/early April. However, it also sounds that they can string it along until very late in the cycle with the de-facto wait list.

My dilemma is that my significant other, who will be moving with me, needs to get a job as a high school teacher, which has a fairly limited time frame of hiring, especially for the types of positions she's most interested in. The schools she's gotten interest from will probably need to know by sometime in early April, and she can't really blow them off and leave them without a teacher if she accepts, and I am not accepted. It becomes much harder to find something late in the game, and after July, it becomes extremely hard.

I am concerned that I will pick a school, and then get am acceptance to my top school too late to change. In another situation it could be "Sure, I can be there by Monday, we'll crash at my friend's place till we get an apartment and my SO will start looking for a job" but I think I will need to make an absolute decision much earlier than most people.

So the question is: Should I send a LOI, and if so, to whom, when, and how much should I relay?

You have a significant other who is willing to move, leave their job, find a new one and support this crazy endeavor of yours. While the CA school may be the "better" school both for reputation and tuition, at some point you just have to commit. If that's before you hear back or get off the waitlist at #1, tough s**t. Move on. Take the acceptance at the school where you're SO has a job and don't have any regrets. Remember, in four years you're potentially going to be going through the same exact process.

While this doesn't answer your LOI question, I just had to point out the potential red flag. It can be very easy to blame each other, but you need to approach this as a mutual sacrifice club.

 

[maxwell_edison]

You have a significant other who is willing to move, leave their job, find a new one and support this crazy endeavor of yours. While the CA school may be the "better" school both for reputation and tuition, at some point you just have to commit. If that's before you hear back or get off the waitlist at #1, tough s**t. Move on. Take the acceptance at the school where you're SO has a job and don't have any regrets. Remember, in four years you're potentially going to be going through the same exact process.

While this doesn't answer your LOI question, I just had to point out the potential red flag. It can be very easy to blame each other, but you need to approach this as a mutual sacrifice club.

I think my SO prefers the CA school too. Location and job wise. She won't tell me her preferences though, because she doesn't want to influence me.

 

[McSpicy]

Some schools are receptive of LOIs from what've I've heard from previous applicants. I personally don't think it's too early to send one considering you've already been accepted which makes you more credible than someone begging for an interview with no acceptances. I think your current situation is enough to warrant some attention from the ADCOM at this school.

 

[gyngyn]

Some schools are receptive of LOIs from what've I've heard from previous applicants. I personally don't think it's too early to send one considering you've already been accepted which makes you more credible than someone begging for an interview with no acceptances. I think your current situation is enough to warrant some attention from the ADCOM at this school.

He isn't even on the waitlist, though. I'd be interested to see how the school would explain to the LCME how an admissions decision was altered by a love letter.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

I think my SO prefers the CA school too. Location and job wise. She won't tell me her preferences though, because she doesn't want to influence me.

I can see the nobility in that. Just realize, if you two get married, she will eventually influence everything

He isn't even on the waitlist, though. I'd be interested to see how the school would explain to the LCME how an admissions decision was altered by a love letter.

What if his LOI was in the form of a sonnet?

 

[gyngyn]

What if his LOI was in the form of a sonnet?

I've met these guys, not particularly poetic.

 

[Oranges2]

OP, that's definitely a tough situation. I'm not sure an LOI pre-decision will affect your chances at all. I don't think it would hurt, but I don't think it will help either.

He isn't even on the waitlist, though. I'd be interested to see how the school would explain to the LCME how an admissions decision was altered by a love letter.

@gyngyn what if you are on the waitlist of your top choice/preferred school, but are already accepted to "better" school, is it too early to send LOI to preferred school? Should you wait after March 15 when schools can see where waitlisted candidates have other acceptances?

 

[gyngyn]

@gyngyn what if you are on the waitlist of your top choice, preferred school, but are already accepted to "better" school, is it too early to send LOI to preferred school. Should you wait after March 15 when schools can see where waitlisted candidates have other acceptances?

Yes, it's too early, unless they have miscalculated so badly that they are taking folks off the waitlist before April 30th.

 

[McSpicy]

I don't think anything bad can happen from telling a school they're your top choice but what do I know? I'm just a lowly pre-med.

 

[Goro]

How else would you interpret a nonbinding contract from a desperate applicant?

Hi everyone,

I am trying to figure out if I should send an LOI, and what about my situation to discuss. I'm accepted to a couple excellent schools already, but my first choice (in terms of school and location) is a California (home state) school with much later decisions. I interviewed a few weeks back, and it sounds like there is a big batch of acceptances in late March/early April. However, it also sounds that they can string it along until very late in the cycle with the de-facto wait list.

My dilemma is that my significant other, who will be moving with me, needs to get a job as a high school teacher, which has a fairly limited time frame of hiring, especially for the types of positions she's most interested in. The schools she's gotten interest from will probably need to know by sometime in early April, and she can't really blow them off and leave them without a teacher if she accepts, and I am not accepted. It becomes much harder to find something late in the game, and after July, it becomes extremely hard.

I am concerned that I will pick a school, and then get am acceptance to my top school too late to change. In another situation it could be "Sure, I can be there by Monday, we'll crash at my friend's place till we get an apartment and my SO will start looking for a job" but I think I will need to make an absolute decision much earlier than most people.

So the question is: Should I send a LOI, and if so, to whom, when, and how much should I relay?

 

[gyngyn]

That's not always true. For example, at Mayo, they explicitly say during interview day that a letter of intent is important there and they have a definitive ranking. However for OP's case a LOI may have no impact.

It's more like pillow talk. You want to believe it. But you know that in the morning things will look different.

Actually asking for an LOI seems coercive, especially at the interview stage. I'm surprised to hear this from Mayo.

 

[p0gono]

That's not always true. For example, at Mayo, they explicitly say during interview day that a letter of intent is important there and they have a definitive ranking. However for OP's case a LOI may have no impact.

Agreed. At a few places I have heard similar (usually less explicit) things about the importance of showing continued interest, only at privates and generally only in the case of a waitlist decision.

Clearly, there is no universal rule. Publics, perhaps the UCs especially, don't read much into them and probably neither do DO schools (based on comments from gyngyn and goro). But you'll notice that LizzyM has a slightly different take, and I think that is indicative of their (qualified) usefulness at schools like hers - a highly selective private school.

People who interview at schools like Mayo are unlikely to be 'desperate' for entrance into medical school. Mayo probably appreciates these letters because they want to accept students who visited Rochester and saw the unique environment with their own eyes and continue to imagine themselves thriving there even after visiting other fine schools. Although most schools don't request LOIs in this way, some of them appear to appreciate them - presumably for similar reasons.

But of course, that doesn't mean an LOI will get you accepted or that it is required for an acceptance off the waitlist.

 

[GrapesofRath]

It's more like pillow talk. You want to believe it. But you know that in the morning things will look different.

Actually asking for an LOI seems coercive, especially at the interview stage. I'm surprised to hear this from Mayo.

Georgetown basically does this as well. I have heard of similar anecdotes(emphasis on anecdotes) at other schools but G'town and Mayo are two I have heard of where I think it is particularly explicit and obvious the school wants an LOI. Note I still dont think anybody should be recommending people to send LOIs, but it's just interesting to see how there are schools that in instances will look for these.

 

[p0gono]

Georgetown basically does this as well. I have heard of similar anecdotes(emphasis on anecdotes) at other schools but G'town and Mayo are two I have heard of where I think it is particularly explicit and obvious the school wants an LOI. Note I still dont think anybody should be recommending people to send LOIs, but it's just interesting to see how there are schools that in instances will look for these.

Agreed.

I was surprised that the admissions folks at Stanford mentioned LOIs on interview day. Someone asked about updates and the guy answered before saying, "oh and sometimes people ask about letters of intent and things like that. We don't have a policy - letters are nice, but they are certainly not required by any means."

This is far from a Mayo / GT request for letters, but you know that when LOI is mentioned as a viable option (that won't hurt you) to a room full of eager applicants, they will hear it. Before that, I was assuming Stanford would have been in the UC category of assuming all interviewees had intent for dayssss and couldn't be bothered with such letters.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Agreed.

I was surprised that the admissions folks at Stanford mentioned LOIs on interview day. Someone asked about updates and the guy answered before saying, "oh and sometimes people ask about letters of intent and things like that. We don't have a policy - letters are nice, but they are certainly not required by any means."

This is far from a Mayo / GT request for letters, but you know that when LOI is mentioned as a viable option (that won't hurt you) to a room full of eager applicants, they will hear it. Before that, I was assuming Stanford would have been in the UC category of assuming all interviewees had intent for dayssss and couldn't be bothered with such letters.

It's funny on the other end of the spectrum ther are people in medical school admission I know personally who say these LOIs annoy them and their staff(because they are a complete waste of space and everybody's time including the school's) and that there have been instances where occassionally they could actually be a negative to the applicant.

And then there are schools that are so receptive to LOIs in the situation gyngyn says they can be advisable(ie you are holding an acceptance at a higher school) that I've heard of those lower schools instantly offering someone an acceptance if they are currently on the WL with such a letter. It's funny I had a friend 5 or so years ago interviewing at Keck and basically the dean strongly hinted at such a thing during the interview day where if you get waitlisted but are holding an acceptance at say a Penn or Yale of the world and tell Keck you will go there if they accept you, theyll likely take you without hesitation. Sure enough it came to a situation for my friend where my friend got the WL at Keck but was holding an acceptance at Penn. He sends the LOI to Keck and within 48 hours gets an acceptance letter from them. Sometimes maybe a school just wants to be loved the way an applicant wants a school to love them.

 

[p0gono]

Whatever you define as better. Cheaper could definitely be seen as better.

In the case of writing a LOI to a waitlisting school, is it appropriate to tell them that you have multiple acceptances or what the "better" school is?

(Assuming the LOI comes before the next traffic report on April 30)

 

[gyngyn]

In the case of writing a LOI to a waitlisting school, is it appropriate to tell them that you have multiple acceptances or what the "better" school is?

(Assuming the LOI comes before the next traffic report on April 30)

No. We can already see them (after March 15th). And it seems disrepectful, somehow...

 

[GrapesofRath]

No. We can already see them (after March 15th). And it seems disrepectful, somehow...

Will a school usually specifically look up where else somebody has been accepted to who they are considering taking off their WL? Or is it more a situation where they can look it up if they want but rarely do?

If schools only rarely decide to look up to see if someone on their WL has been accepted somewhere else and the main value of LOIs is to send them to "lower" schools than the one that accepted you, the idea that you are being "disrespectful" mentioning the other schools makes no sense at all.

 

[gyngyn]

Will a school usually specifically look up where else somebody has been accepted to who they are considering taking off their WL? Or is it more a situation where they can look it up if they want but rarely do?

If schools only rarely decide to look up to see if someone on their WL has been accepted somewhere else and the main value of LOIs is to send them to "lower" schools than the one that accepted you, the idea that you are being "disrespectful" mentioning the other schools makes no sense at all.

The schools where a candidate is holding will appear next to a student's name in the AMCAS report. We are required to notify the school where the student is holding an acceptance later in the cycle. So, yes we routinely see this before offering an acceptance off the waitlist.
There is no need to mention the name of the other school in an "LOI." To do so just seems gratuitous, and ungenerous.

 

[GrapesofRath]

The schools where a candidate is holding will appear next to a student's name in the AMCAS report. We are required to notify the school where the student is holding an acceptance later in the cycle. So, yes we routinely see this before offering an acceptance off the waitlist.
There is no need to mention the name of the other school in an "LOI." To do so just seems gratuitous, and ungenerous.

Does seeing the results of this ever have any influence on the decision making to take someone off the Waitlist?

I ask because if a lower tier school is about to accept someone of the WL but then sees they have multiple acceptances at much higher ranked schools, would they perhaps be a little more likely to second guess their decision to offer that person an acceptance? Obviously an LOI would help here by expressing interest to that lower tier school, but if no LOI was given and the school wants to pull that person off the LOI, could they perhaps be a little more hesitant after realizing they have multiple acceptances at either better schools or far cheaper ones?

 

[gyngyn]

Does seeing the results of this ever have any influence on the decision making to take someone off the Waitlist?

I ask because if a lower tier school is about to accept someone of the WL but then sees they have multiple acceptances at much higher ranked schools, would they perhaps be a little more likely to second guess their decision to offer that person an acceptance? Obviously an LOI would help here by expressing interest to that lower tier school, but if no LOI was given and the school wants to pull that person off the LOI, could they perhaps be a little more hesitant after realizing they have multiple acceptances at either better schools or far cheaper ones?

The only time I suggest an LOI is in the exact circumstance you describe and for the very reason you indicate.
The best timing is right when the school is starting to pull from the waitlist. Any earlier and they don't know if intervening circumstances have altered the applicant's view.

 

[p0gono]

The schools where a candidate is holding will appear next to a student's name in the AMCAS report. We are required to notify the school where the student is holding an acceptance later in the cycle. So, yes we routinely see this before offering an acceptance off the waitlist.
There is no need to mention the name of the other school in an "LOI." To do so just seems gratuitous, and ungenerous.

That makes sense. Thank you!

Tangentially, it seems funny that applicants don't have access to their own AMCAS reports. You would think I should be able to log into AMCAS and see any actions taken by schools (and reported to AMCAS) in some central place. I should be able to withdraw my applications there, too, since that is where I submitted them.

I bet a couple computer science summer interns could come up with a really useful and user-friendly web system that isn't stuck in 2001. **If anyone at AMCAS is listening.**

 

[gyngyn]

That makes sense. Thank you!

Tangentially, it seems funny that applicants don't have access to their own AMCAS reports. You would think I should be able to log into AMCAS and see any actions taken by schools (and reported to AMCAS) in some central place. I should be able to withdraw my applications there, too, since that is where I submitted them. I bet a couple computer science summer interns could come up with a really useful and user-friendly web system that isn't stuck in 2001. **If anyone at AMCAS is listening.**

There's really nothing on it but the school/s where you are holding.

 

[p0gono]

There's really nothing on it but the school/s where you are holding.

Even just that would be good to see.

I got an acceptance email that went to my spam folder and required no deposit or confirmation of intent to matriculate. If I weren't neurotic about checking my email, it would have been possible to hold an acceptance without even knowing it!