Looking at other universities for 4th year

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beepboopbop1

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For the current 4th years and recent grads (or anyone with insight honestly)!- I’m a 3rd year at WSU interested in specializing in SA surgery. I’m looking at doing a rotation at another university during 4th year and was wondering if anyone has any recommendations for universities with teaching hospitals that take visiting students! I’m hoping to make connections, explore options for internship/residency, and get some hands-on experience. Thank you! (crossposted on the APVMA facebook page)
 
For the current 4th years and recent grads (or anyone with insight honestly)!- I’m a 3rd year at WSU interested in specializing in SA surgery. I’m looking at doing a rotation at another university during 4th year and was wondering if anyone has any recommendations for universities with teaching hospitals that take visiting students! I’m hoping to make connections, explore options for internship/residency, and get some hands-on experience. Thank you! (crossposted on the APVMA facebook page)
To be very honest with you, as someone also pursuing surgery, your best opportunities for hands-on experience are not going to be in academic rotations at all. I got some excellent surgical experience as a 4th year, but it was at externships at private practices - often smaller ones - rather than in the university setting. It was recommended to me by my faculty not to use externship slots on rotations at other institutions, mainly because 2 weeks isn't enough time for them to get to know you/you to know their system, and the odds of you overlapping with someone on the internship selection committee were pretty low. Sometimes you also have to pay tuition for that block if you go to another institution (depending on the program)

There's not no reason to go to other universities, but it's really dependent on what the primary thing you're hoping to get out of it is.
 
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To be very honest with you, as someone also pursuing surgery, your best opportunities for hands-on experience are not going to be in academic rotations at all. I got some excellent surgical experience as a 4th year, but it was at externships at private practices - often smaller ones - rather than in the university setting. It was recommended to me by my faculty not to use externship slots on rotations at other institutions, mainly because 2 weeks isn't enough time for them to get to know you/you to know their system, and the odds of you overlapping with someone on the internship selection committee were pretty low. Sometimes you also have to pay tuition for that block if you go to another institution (depending on the program)

There's not no reason to go to other universities, but it's really dependent on what the primary thing you're hoping to get out of it is.
Thank you so much for your insight! I've heard the same about the lack of hands on experience... bummer. I would say my main priority is networking and making connections, as well as scoping out potential places for internships/residencies. I'm leaning towards academic institutions for those, but I don't want to pigeonhole myself, of course. I want to try to find somewhere where I will fit in and get along with the faculty. Is 2 weeks really too short to get to know the People In Charge? I have fairly limited elective rotation slots sadly (we don't have externship specific slots) and I'm not sure I can make a 4 week rotation work, but I will see what I can do!
 
Just for people in other specialties who might also be reading this, I went to two different schools for pathology rotations, but that’s a lot different setup than surgery. On my path rotations I was one-on-one with faculty members for three weeks, not one in an entire rotation of faces plus behind interns and residents in the lineup for doing procedures and “cool stuff”. So some programs might be worth it, but maybe not others. Most of my hands on practice was at rural GP rotations actually.
 
Illinois took students from other schools when I was there (c/o 2019) but I agree with shorty - an academic institution is the last place I'd want to be as a fourth year trying to get decent hands-on experience in....anything
Seems like the consensus is that teaching hospitals don't give us a ton of hands on😭. I might try to look at private institutions as well. Thanks for your reply!
 
Thank you so much for your insight! I've heard the same about the lack of hands on experience... bummer. I would say my main priority is networking and making connections, as well as scoping out potential places for internships/residencies. I'm leaning towards academic institutions for those, but I don't want to pigeonhole myself, of course. I want to try to find somewhere where I will fit in and get along with the faculty. Is 2 weeks really too short to get to know the People In Charge? I have fairly limited elective rotation slots sadly (we don't have externship specific slots) and I'm not sure I can make a 4 week rotation work, but I will see what I can do!
I think it's just a lot harder to make a lasting impression over 2 weeks than if you were a regular student there and maybe already knew some people. It's certainly not impossible, but I think you'd be more "extra" to be memorable because you're only there for 2 weeks and then disappear again.

If you're interested in academic internships, the best way to learn about the culture there is to talk to current and recent interns about their experience. You can get an idea of it from watching as a student to see how interns are treated and the kinds of responsibilities they're given, but sometimes it might be challenging to balance that and mentally noting things while you're also juggling all of the aspects of being a 4th year student - especially in a hospital that you're not as familiar with, so you're trying to remember their flow (and possibly their floor plan 😛 ).

On the other hand, for other specialties, it may be quite valuable, like Jayna mentioned. I've never seen a visiting student at my institution for surgery, but I have seen them come here before for things like radiology and ophthalmology because the departments here are quite large compared to some other programs, so the amount of cases you get exposed to on those services is a lot higher. I went to vet school at an institution that didn't have an ophthalmologist at all when I was a 4th year, and only had 1 radiologist, so in those situations, there's probably a pretty good learning benefit to going! Just not sure about the benefit for surgery.
 
I hardly even know my own VTH's floor plan 😭 making them labyrinths was not necessary lol
When I started my rotating internship, I was told that it was "impossible" to get lost in that hospital because it's a big rectangle.

And that's how I learned that I can do the impossible.
 
I think it's just a lot harder to make a lasting impression over 2 weeks than if you were a regular student there and maybe already knew some people. It's certainly not impossible, but I think you'd be more "extra" to be memorable because you're only there for 2 weeks and then disappear again.

If you're interested in academic internships, the best way to learn about the culture there is to talk to current and recent interns about their experience. You can get an idea of it from watching as a student to see how interns are treated and the kinds of responsibilities they're given, but sometimes it might be challenging to balance that and mentally noting things while you're also juggling all of the aspects of being a 4th year student - especially in a hospital that you're not as familiar with, so you're trying to remember their flow (and possibly their floor plan 😛 ).

On the other hand, for other specialties, it may be quite valuable, like Jayna mentioned. I've never seen a visiting student at my institution for surgery, but I have seen them come here before for things like radiology and ophthalmology because the departments here are quite large compared to some other programs, so the amount of cases you get exposed to on those services is a lot higher. I went to vet school at an institution that didn't have an ophthalmologist at all when I was a 4th year, and only had 1 radiologist, so in those situations, there's probably a pretty good learning benefit to going! Just not sure about the benefit for surgery.
That makes total sense, I really appreciate your insight. I am in the process of contacting interns at places I am interested in. I guess I was hoping that going somewhere in person would make a great impression but it sounds like that may or may not be the case.
 
That makes total sense, I really appreciate your insight. I am in the process of contacting interns at places I am interested in. I guess I was hoping that going somewhere in person would make a great impression but it sounds like that may or may not be the case.
It can…at the right place. I firmly believe the reason I matched at the internship I did was because I visited. But that was a private practice and not academia…they’re very different “beasts” and I think you’d probably get a better return on your investment elsewhere.
 
It also might make sense to visit an academic institution if they're THE place for doing a particular procedure that your own institution doesn't do, or something like that - but you'd have to make sure that when you were there aligned with when they had cases scheduled for that. Where I went to vet school didn't do total hip replacements, for example, so if I'd been a gung ho orthopod and been like OMG I want to see total hips so bad, there are some academic programs that do them regularly that might be an option to visit.
 
This probably won't help much with connections for residencies, but from the hands-on experience side of things, I would strongly recommend doing an externship at a shelter. You wil get a huge amount of spay/neuter, and depending on skill level and situation, there are often opportunities for other things like amputations, enucleations, cystotomies, foreign bodies, etc.

We once had a vet student do an impromptu cystotomy on cat (with support) because a palpable bladder stone was found during her spay surgery.
 
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This probably won't help much with connections for residencies, but from the hands-on experience side of things, I would strongly recommend doing an externship at a shelter. You wil get a huge amount of spay/neuter, and depending on skill level and situation, there are often opportunities for other things like amputations, enucleations, cystotomies, foreign bodies, etc.

We once had a vet student do an impromptu cystotomy on cat (with support) because a palpable bladder stone was found during her spay surgery.
I'm planning on doing a couple of of shelter med rotations for that reason! I hear that the hands on experience is stellar. Thank you!