Looking for Advice on a Second Application Cycle

[user5882]

Hello!
I am seeking some advice about a reapplication cycle after my first cycle didn’t go the way I had hoped. Here are some of my stats to assist in your response:

Gender: female
MCAT: 518
GPA: 3.96
Major: Biochemistry
Minor: Chemistry
Publications: 1 at the time of application (not first author) and 3 more since my application (not first author).
Research: 300 Hours at the time of application (150 more since then)
Shadowing: 25 hours
Volunteering: 200 hours
Clinical Hours: 75
Leadership: 50 hours

I sent my primary in as early as possible and filled out all of my secondaries within two weeks of receiving them. I am an Ohio resident but attend the University of Illinois.

Here is a list of schools I applied to in my first application cycle: Carle Illinois College of Medicine, Case Western Reserve University, Duke, Indiana University, Northeast Ohio Medical University, Ohio State, Perelman School of Medicine, Robert Larner, M.D., College of Medicine at the University of Vermont, Stanford, The University of Toledo, University of California, Los Angeles David Geffen School of Medicine, University of Cincinnati, University of Colorado, University of Illinois College of Medicine, University of Iowa, University of Louisville, University of Maryland, University of Michigain, University of Minnesota, University of Pittsburg, University of Wisconsin, Vanderbilt, WashU, and Wright State University.

I know that a weakness in my application is my clinical hours. I am getting my CNA/STNA license in May (it will be complete by May 22) and plan to take the exam as early as possible. My plan for my gap year is to work as a CNA full-time to get lots of clinical experience. I am wondering how reapplying without a significant change in my clinical hours will affect my chances, even if I am going to be working full-time in a clinical setting. Is it worth reapplying or should I wait a year? Additionally, as a side note, I was wondering how long my MCAT will be valid (I took it in January of 2023).

My plan right now is to apply to around 40 schools this cycle. I would also really appreciate some recommendations on which schools to apply to the second time around. Additionally, any other advice on my application and about anything I could change/adapt would be greatly appreciated!

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[AJS59]

Can you maybe detail more specifically what you did in volunteering? And what, if anything is new (beyond the additional research)

Regardless, here's what I would have to say:
1. Good for acknowledging the low clinical hours. That being said, unless you're planning to submit your application later (like in July) and start working full time immediately after you finish your CNA, it'll be difficult to squeeze in more hours. Many on these forums will tell you that hours after submission (ie projected hours) don't carry strong weight. That will probably be the biggest factor for you in when to reapply.
2. Your shadowing is also low. See if you can squeeze another 25 hours out, and with a PCP if you haven't done so already.
3. Your school list is largely fine, although there are a couple of schools that, without ties, might be difficult coming from OOS (in particular: Louisville, Indiana, Maryland, Minnesota, Wisconsin). The midwest ties might help with that, but not sure if its enough (need others to weigh in on that). If you post a WAMC the pros can help you develop an expert list.
4. 40 schools is a lot...see if you can cull the number to closer to 30 (for the sake of your wallet and your stress levels)
5. You can check AMCAS to see which schools your MCAT would be expired for; I think most would still take a 2023 MCAT even if you applied for the 2026 cycle (but again, check for which schools).
6. Finally, how did you feel about your writing? Your LORs?

 

[Dral]

How many interviews did you attend this year?

If you got 10 interviews but no offers, that is a different situation than if you got 2 interviews and no offers.

You could use more shadowing hours as well (I'd shoot for maybe around 50).

 

[user5882]

Can you maybe detail more specifically what you did in volunteering? And what, if anything is new (beyond the additional research)

Regardless, here's what I would have to say:
1. Good for acknowledging the low clinical hours. That being said, unless you're planning to submit your application later (like in July) and start working full time immediately after you finish your CNA, it'll be difficult to squeeze in more hours. Many on these forums will tell you that hours after submission (ie projected hours) don't carry strong weight. That will probably be the biggest factor for you in when to reapply.
2. Your shadowing is also low. See if you can squeeze another 25 hours out, and with a PCP if you haven't done so already.
3. Your school list is largely fine, although there are a couple of schools that, without ties, might be difficult coming from OOS (in particular: Louisville, Indiana, Maryland, Minnesota, Wisconsin). The midwest ties might help with that, but not sure if its enough (need others to weigh in on that). If you post a WAMC the pros can help you develop an expert list.
4. 40 schools is a lot...see if you can cull the number to closer to 30 (for the sake of your wallet and your stress levels)
5. You can check AMCAS to see which schools your MCAT would be expired for; I think most would still take a 2023 MCAT even if you applied for the 2026 cycle (but again, check for which schools).
6. Finally, how did you feel about your writing? Your LORs?

Thank you for your response!

My volunteer experiences include volunteering at a summer camp for children with disabilities, volunteering at a crisis center for children (new since my first application), tutoring at a local elementary school, volunteering once a week to chat with elderly patients with dementia (new since my first application), volunteering at my public library (new since my last application), and I am involved with a club on campus that I volunteer at local elementary schools with and also sit on the board for.

I am really struggling to find shadowing experiences locally. I've contacted local hospitals and doctors' offices and talked to the health advisors at my school, and have been unsuccessful at finding anything. One of my advisors suggested an online shadowing program, but I was wondering if medical schools would see that as a valid form of shadowing. I do have experience shadowing a PCP.

I feel that my writing is strong (I had my personal statement reviewed multiple times using the career advising office at my school). I have always been told I am a strong writer, and looking back I can find no obvious issues. My letter writers included my PI from research who I have known well for three years, a professor who I had twice and developed a close professional relationship with, and another professor whose office hours I frequently attended.

 

[user5882]

How many interviews did you attend this year?

If you got 10 interviews but no offers, that is a different situation than if you got 2 interviews and no offers.

You could use more shadowing hours as well (I'd shoot for maybe around 50).

Thanks for your response!

I didn't get offered any interviews.

Do you have any advice for finding shadowing experiences? I am struggling to find shadowing and have already reached out to local hospitals and talked to a few different healthcare advisors on my campus, but have so far been unsuccessful. Is online shadowing a valid option to do while I keep searching for in-person opportunities?

 

[Faha]

The main reason you received no interviews is your lack of clinical exposure hours. You should accumulate another 20 hours of in person (online shadowing has no value) physician shadowing before you submit your application. You also need another 100+ hours of clinical volunteering with patient contact. Unless you accumulate those hours you should wait another year before you reapply.

 

[user5882]

The main reason you received no interviews is your lack of clinical exposure hours. You should accumulate another 20 hours of in person (online shadowing has no value) physician shadowing before you submit your application. You also need another 100+ hours of clinical volunteering with patient contact. Unless you accumulate those hours you should wait another year before you reapply.

Thanks for your response!

Does it matter if I complete the clinical volunteering hours before my primary application, or is it ok to have them completed by the time I write my secondary applications?

 

[wysdoc]

Thanks for your response!

Does it matter if I complete the clinical volunteering hours before my primary application, or is it ok to have them completed by the time I write my secondary applications?

You must have a good number of hours completed before you submit your application, or risk another year without interviews.
Please believe the experienced advisors when we stress this!

 

[AJS59]

To add to wysdoc's point, this is before you submit your primary. You can't go back and add new activities once your primary is submitted.

In theory if you waited into July to actually submit (July 4th, by the LizzyM deadline) you may be able to accumulate enough hours if you work full time in late may and June. But honestly unless you're actively adding the hours now, I'd just wait for next cycle.

You did mention the volunteering with dementia patients...was that in a hospital setting or in hospice?

If possible, it'd be best to give a breakdown of your volunteering and clinical activities by hours for each (as in hours spent with dementia patients, library hours, etc.) so we can better assess your standing with regards to non-clinical. It doesn't change the overall calculus...you need more clinical hours, but it might help evaluate if you need non-clinical service orientation hours as well.

 

[user5882]

To add to wysdoc's point, this is before you submit your primary. You can't go back and add new activities once your primary is submitted.

In theory if you waited into July to actually submit (July 4th, by the LizzyM deadline) you may be able to accumulate enough hours if you work full time in late may and June. But honestly unless you're actively adding the hours now, I'd just wait for next cycle.

You did mention the volunteering with dementia patients...was that in a hospital setting or in hospice?

If possible, it'd be best to give a breakdown of your volunteering and clinical activities by hours for each (as in hours spent with dementia patients, library hours, etc.) so we can better assess your standing with regards to non-clinical. It doesn't change the overall calculus...you need more clinical hours, but it might help evaluate if you need non-clinical service orientation hours as well.

Thank you for your response!

Here is a breakdown of my service hours:

Tutoring 4th grade students -- 10 Hours
Volunteering as a camp counselor for children with disabilities -- 125 hours
Volunteering at my local library -- 40 hours
Volunteering at a crisis center for children -- 20 hours
Volunteering with dementia patients -- 10 hours
Volunteering through a club on campus at local elementary schools -- 120 hours

Volunteering with dementia patients is through a service where I have a weekly Zoom call with a patient who is lonely and I chat with them and provide them with some companionship. I assumed since it was on Zoom it didn't count as clinical hours, but please let me know if this is incorrect. Additionally, some of my responsibilities at the summer camp included working with medically complex children and helping them with activities like meal times and changing. I also often pushed wheelchairs around camp. Because of these responsibilities, could some of the hours I spent as a counselor be considered clinical?

 

[AJS59]

Thank you for your response!

Here is a breakdown of my service hours:

Tutoring 4th grade students -- 10 Hours
Volunteering as a camp counselor for children with disabilities -- 125 hours
Volunteering at my local library -- 40 hours
Volunteering at a crisis center for children -- 20 hours
Volunteering with dementia patients -- 10 hours
Volunteering through a club on campus at local elementary schools -- 120 hours

Volunteering with dementia patients is through a service where I have a weekly Zoom call with a patient who is lonely and I chat with them and provide them with some companionship. I assumed since it was on Zoom it didn't count as clinical hours, but please let me know if this is incorrect. Additionally, some of my responsibilities at the summer camp included working with medically complex children and helping them with activities like meal times and changing. I also often pushed wheelchairs around camp. Because of these responsibilities, could some of the hours I spent as a counselor be considered clinical?

I'd defer to the experts, but I'd think that those activities would all be non-clinical since they're not happening in a clinical setting. The "edge case" as far as I know for clinical vs non-clinical is often nursing homes afaik.

 

[Faha]

Thank you for your response!

Here is a breakdown of my service hours:

Tutoring 4th grade students -- 10 Hours
Volunteering as a camp counselor for children with disabilities -- 125 hours
Volunteering at my local library -- 40 hours
Volunteering at a crisis center for children -- 20 hours
Volunteering with dementia patients -- 10 hours
Volunteering through a club on campus at local elementary schools -- 120 hours

Volunteering with dementia patients is through a service where I have a weekly Zoom call with a patient who is lonely and I chat with them and provide them with some companionship. I assumed since it was on Zoom it didn't count as clinical hours, but please let me know if this is incorrect. Additionally, some of my responsibilities at the summer camp included working with medically complex children and helping them with activities like meal times and changing. I also often pushed wheelchairs around camp. Because of these responsibilities, could some of the hours I spent as a counselor be considered clinical?

Many of these activities qualify as non clinical volunteering so you will meet the threshold of 150 hours that some schools screen at. You are an applicant with a GPA of 3.97 and a MCAT of 518. Yet, you were unable to receive interviews at instate schools such as Wright State, Toledo and Northeast Ohio. The reason is that you had no clinical exposure hours. Since you will be working as a CNA in the coming year you will have more than enough clinical hours (at least 1,000) when you reapply in June 2025. When you reapply a year from now I suggest these schools:
Wright State
Toledo
Northeast Ohio
Cincinnati
Ohio State
Case Western
West Virginia
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
U Michigan
U Illinois
Northwestern
Rosalind Franklin
Medical College Wisconsin
TCU
USF Morsani
Miami
Belmont
Wake Forest
Duke
Virginia Commonwealth
Eastern Virginia
George Washington
Georgetown
Pittsburgh
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
Penn State
Hackensack
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
New York Medical College
Albany
Rochester
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Tufts
Boston University

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Fair warning: you have accumulated 150 hours but consistency and dedication are important. I don't put weight on activities under 50 hours, and the activities with over 100 hours that you have are similar.

 

[LindaAccepted]

Hello!
I am seeking some advice about a reapplication cycle after my first cycle didn’t go the way I had hoped. Here are some of my stats to assist in your response:

Gender: female
MCAT: 518
GPA: 3.96
Major: Biochemistry
Minor: Chemistry
Publications: 1 at the time of application (not first author) and 3 more since my application (not first author).
Research: 300 Hours at the time of application (150 more since then)
Shadowing: 25 hours
Volunteering: 200 hours
Clinical Hours: 75
Leadership: 50 hours

I sent my primary in as early as possible and filled out all of my secondaries within two weeks of receiving them. I am an Ohio resident but attend the University of Illinois.

Here is a list of schools I applied to in my first application cycle: Carle Illinois College of Medicine, Case Western Reserve University, Duke, Indiana University, Northeast Ohio Medical University, Ohio State, Perelman School of Medicine, Robert Larner, M.D., College of Medicine at the University of Vermont, Stanford, The University of Toledo, University of California, Los Angeles David Geffen School of Medicine, University of Cincinnati, University of Colorado, University of Illinois College of Medicine, University of Iowa, University of Louisville, University of Maryland, University of Michigain, University of Minnesota, University of Pittsburg, University of Wisconsin, Vanderbilt, WashU, and Wright State University.

I know that a weakness in my application is my clinical hours. I am getting my CNA/STNA license in May (it will be complete by May 22) and plan to take the exam as early as possible. My plan for my gap year is to work as a CNA full-time to get lots of clinical experience. I am wondering how reapplying without a significant change in my clinical hours will affect my chances, even if I am going to be working full-time in a clinical setting. Is it worth reapplying or should I wait a year? Additionally, as a side note, I was wondering how long my MCAT will be valid (I took it in January of 2023).

My plan right now is to apply to around 40 schools this cycle. I would also really appreciate some recommendations on which schools to apply to the second time around. Additionally, any other advice on my application and about anything I could change/adapt would be greatly appreciated!

I agree with those who are encouraging you to wait out this cycle and apply ASAP in 2025. It will be very difficult for you to accumulate enough hours and apply early with meaningful comments about your experiences if you apply this cycle. I also agree that lack of clinical exposure is a major factor.

Although some programs don't value shadowing so much, your shadowing hours are on the low side, so increase them to 40-50 total. If you are working as a CNA, you should meet doctors and can ask them if you can shadow them.

Finally, professional writers have editors for a reason. Even if you are a strong writer, you could still be missing something in your essays (although I agree that lack of clinical is the most obvious reason for your rejection). If you are making mistakes -- and I don't mean grammatical ones -- wouldn't you want to know about them before you reapply? That way you can fix them.