PhD/PsyD Looking for Info on These Psy.D. Programs

[WisNeuro]

True. i have been doing a "research" on both!
thinking i should apply for both as many have said, that there's not much of difference between the two courses.

again, everyones opinions will differ based on their experiences in the universities. so no point in scratching head over this.

My advice is to ignore the opinions and focus on verifiable facts (debt load, accredited internship match percentage, likely future salary) when making decisions. Opinions can be biased, but the facts are simply the facts.

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[@Wonderwoman]

My advice is to ignore the opinions and focus on verifiable facts (debt load, accredited internship match percentage, likely future salary) when making decisions. Opinions can be biased, but the facts are simply the facts.

about accredited internship and future opportunities i think ex-students (seniors) can explain better.

 

[WisNeuro]

about accredited internship and future opportunities i think ex-students (seniors) can explain better.

When it comes to the accredited match rate, the published statistics speak volumes. It's possible to succeed despite your program, but you should really be excelling with the help of your program, not its hindrance. Where these internships are also matters. You can ask where students have matched in recent years. This is telling. These are facts. They are not biased. It also avoids the cognitive dissonance effect.

 

[Justanothergrad]

about accredited internship and future opportunities i think ex-students (seniors) can explain better.

This information would be reflected in outcome statistics. Reasons for a program not matching is not nearly as important as that they dont match, for instance. If objective outcome data (match data debt, Eppp pass, etc.) was discrepant from personal student perspective, which would you trust as more accurate? I cant think of a reason to trust student perception in the face of other data so I cant think of a reason to not use that available data.

Said simply, facts are simply facts

 

[@Wonderwoman]

When it comes to the accredited match rate, the published statistics speak volumes. It's possible to succeed despite your program, but you should really be excelling with the help of your program, not its hindrance. Where these internships are also matters. You can ask where students have matched in recent years. This is telling. These are facts. They are not biased. It also avoids the cognitive dissonance effect.

agreed.
how well connected you are to students and people in the universities/at internships will matter.

 

[@Wonderwoman]

This information would be reflected in outcome statistics. Reasons for a program not matching is not nearly as important as that they dont match, for instance. If objective outcome data (match data debt, Eppp pass, etc.) was discrepant from personal student perspective, which would you trust as more accurate? I cant think of a reason to trust student perception in the face of other data so I cant think of a reason to not use that available data.

Said simply, facts are simply facts

From this point you are 100% right.
perspective will depend upon how an individual has gone through their journey.

 

[Justanothergrad]

From this point you are 100% right.
perspective will depend upon how an individual has gone through their journey.

I'm not sure what value perspective has if it is not accurate.

 

[@Wonderwoman]

I'm not sure what value perspective has if it is not accurate.

yea.

for me i am pretty focused about being a clinician. i think its better to trust your guts and go ahead with it.

 

[WisNeuro]

for me i am pretty focused about being a clinician. i think its better to trust your guts and go ahead with it.

The vast majority of us were/are focused on being a clinician.

 

[Justanothergrad]

yea.

for me i am pretty focused about being a clinician. i think its better to trust your guts and go ahead with it.

That leads to poorer decisions.

 

[WisNeuro]

That leads to poorer decisions.

Cue Meehl.

 

[@Wonderwoman]

The vast majority of us were/are focused on being a clinician.

even in this debate i saw few stating something similar.

 

[WisNeuro]

even in this debate i saw few stating something similar.

Could you clarify that?

 

[@Wonderwoman]

Could you clarify that?

That they are more focused on becoming clinicians.

 

[WisNeuro]

That they are more focused on becoming clinicians.

I'm not sure what you mean. Most of us are actually practicing clinicians.

 

[@Wonderwoman]

I'm not sure what you mean. Most of us are actually practicing clinicians.

well i am not yet, so i am trying to become one, hopefully soon

 

[Sanman]

well i am not yet, so i am trying to become one, hopefully soon

Huh?

 

[foreverbull]

We're mostly clinicians in this forum. I'd strongly advise looking at the freely available facts at each school (do some research online and look at APA-accredited Ph.D. And Psy.D. Programs in clinical and counseling psychology), THEN choose out of the better ones that offer the most funding, THEN apply, THEN when you interview at the school go with your gut. At that point, you've narrowed it down to the better options already and they're probably all comparable. I wouldn't start with your gut when you know very little about the quality of programs and base it on one or two graduates' opinions. If you do just go with your gut from the start, you are much more likely to pick an expensive school with a poor reputation because graduates or the school said nice things about it that sound good but may not be accurate about the program as a whole.

 

[@Wonderwoman]

We're mostly clinicians in this forum. I'd strongly advise looking at the freely available facts at each school (do some research online and look at APA-accredited Ph.D. And Psy.D. Programs in clinical and counseling psychology), THEN choose out of the better ones that offer the most funding, THEN apply, THEN when you interview at the school go with your gut. At that point, you've narrowed it down to the better options already and they're probably all comparable. I wouldn't start with your gut when you know very little about the quality of programs and base it on one or two graduates' opinions. If you do just go with your gut from the start, you are much more likely to pick an expensive school with a poor reputation because graduates or the school said nice things about it that sound good but may not be accurate about the program as a whole.

got it, Thanks.

 

[smalltownpsych]

As mentioned by other posters, every school that that has an APA-accredited clinical psychology program has to have student outcome data. It is usually, if not always, a link on the main page of the doctorate program that says: Student Admissions, Outcomes, and Other Data
This is where you find out some of the key information about internship match rates and licensure rates.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

The only match % that matters is APA-acred match %. Programs that push their APPIC+APA match rate at best are being disingenuous bc it conflates two completely different standards. At worst they are trying to cover up or at least de-emphasize their APA-acred match rate.

APA-acred is in fact an accreditation. APPIC is not, it is a membership to the group with some loose requirements.

Anything less than APA-acred will limit the person for their career. Fair or not, it’s a huge difference when you are trying to secure a job.

 

[@Wonderwoman]

As mentioned by other posters, every school that that has an APA-accredited clinical psychology program has to have student outcome data. It is usually, if not always, a link on the main page of the doctorate program that says: Student Admissions, Outcomes, and Other Data
This is where you find out some of the key information about internship match rates and licensure rates.

I have checked Internship match rates of wright state university (Ohio). they have mentioned that they'll be providing full time internship.



This seems decent. isn't it?

(sorry couldn't upload a link)

 

[WisNeuro]

As to my knowledge, Wright State does not have a captive internship. I am not sure what you are referring to. You have to apply to outside sites and go through a match process in most circumstances.

 

[Temperance]

I have checked Internship match rates of wright state university (Ohio). they have mentioned that they'll be providing full time internship.



This seems decent. isn't it?

(sorry couldn't upload a link)

You are required to have a predoctoral internship before graduation. In the overwhelming majority of cases, this would be a full-time, paid internship. As @WisNeuro said, you get this internship through an external application and match process, but being able to get the internship is a minimum requirement.

I highly recommend reading Dr. Prinstein's Uncensored Advice for Applying to Clinical Psychology. The section about training in clinical psychology has a lot of information about what you should expect from graduate training and what it entails.

 

[psych.meout]

I have checked Internship match rates of wright state university (Ohio). they have mentioned that they'll be providing full time internship.



This seems decent. isn't it?

(sorry couldn't upload a link)

Like others have said, I don't think Wright State has a captive internship. Regardless, captive internships are a bad thing, in general. They restrict what training you receive as an intern and allow doctoral programs to game the internship match statistics to make themselves look better (i.e., by inflating their APA accredited match rate) without actually doing anything to improve their programs, such that their match rates improve through being better and more competitive.

 

[medium rare]

Wright State’s pre-doctoral internship is not captive.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

I have checked Internship match rates of wright state university (Ohio). they have mentioned that they'll be providing full time internship.



This seems decent. isn't it?

(sorry couldn't upload a link)

Run from this program.

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[LadyHalcyon]

As to my knowledge, Wright State does not have a captive internship. I am not sure what you are referring to. You have to apply to outside sites and go through a match process in most circumstances.

They do actually have an internship associated with the program but they typically only fill one of their 6 spots internally

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[WisNeuro]

They do actually have an internship associated with the program but they typically only fill one of their 6 spots internally

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I stand corrected. Thanks for the update.

 

[LadyHalcyon]

I stand corrected. Thanks for the update.

But you are correct in that it's not an internship that is only for wright state students

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[WisNeuro]

But you are correct in that it's not an internship that is only for wright state students

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So, an internship associated with the program, just not a true captive internship. All in all, not something I would rely on as a student there, or be excited about. People who tend to do all of their training in one location/couple of sites through grad school and internship tend to be lacking in clinical skills IME. One of the great parts about having to apply to internships broadly is getting new experience, new supervisors, new patient populations, etc. When you've only known one thing, hard to know what you don't know.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Reminder that the Wright Institute and Wright State are two completely different institutions--one a private FSPS PsyD in California (Wright Institute) and one a public university-based PsyD (Wright State) in Ohio. Wright State has cohorts of about 25-30 v. Wright Institute's cohorts of about 60, and Wright State has much higher APA internship match rates (though, like most programs, Wright Institute's have rebounded in recent years). Wright State also has more funding opportunities (neither is fully funded, though).

 

[LadyHalcyon]

So, an internship associated with the program, just not a true captive internship. All in all, not something I would rely on as a student there, or be excited about. People who tend to do all of their training in one location/couple of sites through grad school and internship tend to be lacking in clinical skills IME. One of the great parts about having to apply to internships broadly is getting new experience, new supervisors, new patient populations, etc. When you've only known one thing, hard to know what you don't know.

Agreed

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[ExecutiveDysfunction]

People who tend to do all of their training in one location/couple of sites through grad school and internship tend to be lacking in clinical skills IME.

When you say one location, do you mean geographic or clinic location? I’m curious if it’s the latter, I’ve never heard of anyone working in one single clinic throughout school. Not doubting you, just amazed that that would be recommended or tolerated by DCTs

 

[WisNeuro]

When you say one location, do you mean geographic or clinic location? I’m curious if it’s the latter, I’ve never heard of anyone working in one single clinic throughout school. Not doubting you, just amazed that that would be recommended or tolerated by DCTs

A little bit of both. Some programs will just have an in house clinic and maybe like 1 practica required. And, some people will apply for internship where they did their practicum. I've seen this before in application reviewing at the postdoc level. If you've pretty much only had 1 supervisor for a particular clinical skill (e.g., certain therapy rotations), it's not good. Additionally, having exposure to different types of patients and different demographics of patients is key. You have to find a balance between breadth and depth. Far too many people bemoan the thought of multiple moves during training, but I happen to think it's one of the best things someone can do in doctoral level training.

 

[ExecutiveDysfunction]

A little bit of both. Some programs will just have an in house clinic and maybe like 1 practica required. And, some people will apply for internship where they did their practicum. I've seen this before in application reviewing at the postdoc level. If you've pretty much only had 1 supervisor for a particular clinical skill (e.g., certain therapy rotations), it's not good. Additionally, having exposure to different types of patients and different demographics of patients is key. You have to find a balance between breadth and depth. Far too many people bemoan the thought of multiple moves during training, but I happen to think it's one of the best things someone can do in doctoral level training.

Agreed. That’s definitely way too narrow of training.

 

[psych.meout]

A little bit of both. Some programs will just have an in house clinic and maybe like 1 practica required. And, some people will apply for internship where they did their practicum. I've seen this before in application reviewing at the postdoc level. If you've pretty much only had 1 supervisor for a particular clinical skill (e.g., certain therapy rotations), it's not good. Additionally, having exposure to different types of patients and different demographics of patients is key. You have to find a balance between breadth and depth. Far too many people bemoan the thought of multiple moves during training, but I happen to think it's one of the best things someone can do in doctoral level training.

And this is a big part of the problem for the idea of captive internships, beyond the ethical issues of gaming the match system and statistics without needing to actually improve one's program. Sure, you could say that you know what you want to do for a career (e.g., setting, population), so a captive internship is good, because it lets to focus on honing what you want. The problem is that it further narrows one's training, even if there is variety in the sites themselves (e.g., both inpatient and outpatient rotations). You don't get exposed to different supervision styles, unique sociocultural issues impacting patient care and psychopathology, etc. Moving sucks, but it's a temporary inconvenience compared to receiving training that is far less rich if you never moved.

 

[PsychedUp313]

I think for credits alone, $114,000k is the figure. I feel like there are solid funding options for that program, though. I wouldn't go unless funding was included.


edit: I was way off on my figure and funding. Looks like the first year tuition is around $55,000 itself and seems like funding is poor. Ouch

University of Denver is even MORE than Pepperdine in tuition. I attended DU for my master's and decided to attend a different PsyD program because it was so outrageously expensive. Additionally, class sizes are huge (37-39 in a cohort) and little to no funding.

 

[@Wonderwoman]

University of Denver is even MORE than Pepperdine in tuition. I attended DU for my master's and decided to attend a different PsyD program because it was so outrageously expensive. Additionally, class sizes are huge (37-39 in a cohort) and little to no funding.

so did you join the program anywhere?

 

[PsychedUp313]

so did you join the program anywhere?

Yep! I'm attending Florida Institute of Technology this fall.