Looking for some advice/guidance in a very difficult situation

[av121]

---

Members do not see this ad.

.

 

[NontradCA]

@Goro

I'm not sure but I want to say that you're kinda screwed pending a further decision on this. There's no hurt in trying though, but I think from an admissions point of view they're not going to believe you if you come with that story and will see it as not taking responsibility. You need to get that sorted out.

 

[Mad Jack]

A lawsuit is about the only way you're going to get this settled. Bring it to court and sort it out. I would also attempt to recoup legal fees and possibly an award for their having damaged your reputation. A good lawyer should easily crush this in court.

 

[av121]

.

 

[av121]

.

 

[NontradCA]

Everything is documented (including the statistical report and polygraph), so if the schools don't believe me, they can look at the documents themselves. I forgot to mention that I did receive an interview for SGU and the interviewer/admissions looked at my story/situation favorably, so that gives me some hope moving forward.

I still think that unless the action is repudiated then you're not going to get sympathy from admissions. I also think that SGU just wants your money. But that's my opinion. Like mad jack said, get lawsuit going. See what @Goro says , and there's no harm in trying. You can apply to every school, and maybe get some love.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

Why did you do an SMP in the first place? Your stats seems like they would get you in just about any DO school and some MD.

DO NOT GO CARIBBEAN with your stats. At all. Ever. That said, maybe a lawyer is your best option. Sounds like you have the evidence to beat this.

 

[Mad Jack]

It's a very real possibility that this will go to court, however it is also taking years away from me that I wish I could be spent in medical school. However, if this is my only option, then I have no choice.

Once you actually initiate a lawsuit, they might be more willing to negotiate and settle the matter, especially if an extra award for economic and noneconomic damages is involved. Rather than risk a six to seven figure settlement (I'd try and get a year of physician pay out of them for each year it costs you both) they will probably just throw their hands in the air and let you have your way. This is probably just a classic example of professors refusing to back down despite being wrong.

 

[av121]

.

 

[av121]

Once you actually initiate a lawsuit, they might be more willing to negotiate and settle the matter, especially if an extra award for economic and noneconomic damages is involved. Rather than risk a six to seven figure settlement (I'd try and get a year of physician pay out of them for each year it costs you both) they will probably just throw their hands in the air and let you have your way. This is probably just a classic example of professors refusing to back down despite being wrong.

Thanks Jack, I appreciate your input.

 

[walleyealx]

If you really didn't cheat I would get that lawsuit going ASAP. This is the "good" kind of lawsuit that actually helps someone that is being taken advantage of.

 

[av121]

.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I agree with Mad Jack, your best option is to challenge this with extreme prejudice.

 

[NontradCA]

Our case is currently being looked over by a powerful firm that looks at discriminatory instances, so the ball is slowly rolling. My concern is that this doesn't get resolved by the time the admission cycle opens in June. I was wondering if you could also elaborate on what you meant by this being a "good" kind of lawsuit?

He meant as opposed to the over- litigious American cases you may see in medical malpractice or "I ate 50 cheeseburgers at mcdonalds and had a heart attack" instances.

 

[walleyealx]

Our case is currently being looked over by a powerful firm that looks at discriminatory instances, so the ball is slowly rolling. My concern is that this doesn't get resolved by the time the admission cycle opens in June. I was wondering if you could also elaborate on what you meant by this being a "good" kind of lawsuit?

I guess I just meant that it isn't one of those frivolous lawsuits that we hear about all of the time nowadays (I burned myself on your coffee because it was too hot, now you owe me big $$$ for my pain and suffering). Or compared to some of the b.s. malpractice stuff you might see as a doctor.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

I went SMP after a difficult junior year that saw my grades go down after that family crisis and I wanted another chance to prove that I'm capable of excelling in medical school. After all of this happened, I obviously wouldn't have chosen that route, but hindsight is 20/20. If I don't get into any DO schools, SGU might be my only option...I would prefer to go to a DO school, but if it's my only option, I might not have a choice.

Sounds like you've been dealt an unfair hand. I'd call the admissions office at every school you're interested in and explain the situation and ask if you can go ahead and apply before this is actually settled, since that could be a while.

The assistant director of your program supports you and you still haven't been able to stop this? I'm assuming you've gone all the way up the chain of command at this point? If so, bite the bullet and get a lawyer asap with the plan of having them pay the outrageous legal fees. But at the same time, get in touch with admission offices of med schools that interest you because time is unfortunately against you.

 

[av121]

.

 

[DoctorKrieger]

Yeah, we haven't been able to stop this. We thought the polygraph would be enough on top of everything else, but nothing's worked so far. Money is going to be tough, however the firm is willing to look at this as a pro bono case, which will save us a lot of money. I don't want to give up on medicine because of this and I've never been more determined.

Hopefully @Goro chimes in to give you much better advice than I can. I wish you the best of luck.

 

[av121]

Thanks Krieger, really appreciate it.

 

[av121]

Hi Goro, I'm sorry but I'm not following your post above. Could you please elaborate or offer your advice? Thank you.

 

[Escape_Goat]

Lawyer up.

/thread

 

[mke520]

seems like the accusers don't have any evidence to accuse you of academic misconduct besides for what they "think" you did which isn't evidence at all. i'm not a lawyer but i don't understand why in the world they would accuse you of something with no concrete evidence. sounds like you're dealing with a bunch of jokers. i def feel like you have the upper hand in this situation and i hope everything gets straightened out.

i agree with everything mad jack says, this is probably a situation where these idiot professors are "never wrong" and won't deny their wrong. they'd rather ruin your reputation than admit that they may be wrong for once in their life.

 

[Goro]

My apologies. My tablet quit on me while I was typing.

I think you have a very difficult path. One one hand, you might very well get IIs and then it's on you to state your case. On the other hand, we got so many qualified applicants (as do other schools) that the logic the Adcoms might take would be "why take a chance on this guy/gal".

I'm not convinced by the arguments below. Cynically, one could say that you either haven't been caught, or you decided to start cheating in the SMP program. Cheaters usually don't have a history because when caught, they're out.

-Our solid academic history prior to attending this SMP
-No history of misconduct
-Our grades in the spring semester when we voluntarily separated ourselves (3.55 GPA and 3.70 GPA, respectively)
-Letters from academics that have known us for years and have defended our honor
-Support from the Assistant Director of the Program, who served as a character reference during the hearing

Polygraphs are NOT lie detectors, and they fall into the category of pseudoscience. There's a reason why they're not admissible in court.

-Results from a polygraph (lie detector test) that indicated no deception occurred when asked questions about academic misconduct in this case


Now this is interesting. You weren't accosted by the professor and accused of cheating after an exam. You weren't accused of cheating in the fall. Did you and your friend sit next to each other all the time? Were the exams the same? In my experience, I have seen a student sit next to his pal at every exam, and the student's head was always in the direction on his pal's exam. I even wrote this up and reported it to the Dean, but nothing happened. But their grades were always similar. At my school we have computerized testing, and the program can "see" when you make your answers, and compare that to all the other test takers' screens, so in effect, it can time when you put your answers down relative to your peeking at someone else's screen. What kind of exams did your classes have?

I am bothered that the accusations came well after the supposed cheating. Had the professor documented any concerns prior to that? Something was ringing alarm bells in his/her head, but the way that this has been carried out is distasteful.

-No eyewitnesses, no cheat sheets, no proposed method of communication

I think perhaps you should take an app cycle on the chin to see what happens. But I suspect that the only way you're going to shake this off is to take legal action and get your record cleared.

Hi Goro, I'm sorry but I'm not following your post above. Could you please elaborate or offer your advice? Thank you.

 

[av121]

.

 

[Goro]

As I said, I think you're going to have to take this one on the chin, and see how the cycle goes. If all the evidence is merely statistical, then it appears you have one hell of a lawsuit. The wheels of Justice turn slowly, but turn they do. Good luck.

I feel that whatever evidence I give can be spun around cynically, so there's no point in arguing for the merits of the evidence I gave above. Therefore, I'm not surprised that you're not convinced. The truth is, there really isn't much you can do to defend yourself, because I feel like it's a "guilty until proven innocent" type of matter in academics. I've tried to do whatever I can to demonstrate that I did not cheat and that I am capable of succeeding with my studies on my own, I'm not sure what more I can do to convince an adcom member. Is there anything that you can think of that I haven't done?

To answer your questions, yes, we did sit next to each other. Our exams were on paper and consisted of a mix of scrambled multiple choice questions. Some exams were in this format and some were not, but our grades on some exams were similar, and some were not. There was no real discernible pattern between exam format and exam score. There was no documentation and the accusation came as a complete shock to both of us. No proctor ever mentioned anything during the exams nor were we ever asked to do anything different then what we were expected to do. My tentative plan is to apply on June 1st to take advantage of the early application and to be as open as I can be if questions come up.