Looking for some advice

[BlueAvocado]

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Hello,

I've been a member of the forum since 2002. Back then I wanted to go to med-school and was enrolled in a pre med program. I started with Chemistry and Physics in the same semester. Since I had a Business background and very little math and science experience from my Bachelor Degree I struggled to do well in the two classes. I ended up with a B in Physics and I also dropped Chemistry. At the time I had two very young kids and I was dealing with some depression from not being employed and faced some financial issues.

Since then I joined the Air Force, turned my life around and now I am getting warmed up to get back to a road towards Medical School. Since I am 8-9 years from retirement and I plan to retire before I apply to Med Schools. I would like to do everything smartly, and take classes (premed) that will not only help me on my application to both MD/DO schools but also take classes that will prepare me for Med School. I am 30 now and I plan to apply as soon as I retire which for me will be about 39.

My question is: what classes other than the core classes would you guys suggest I take and in what order. My plan currently is to take a year of math. Take Algebra 2, followed by either Trig or Calculus. Than when I get strong in math I can then start taking the core classes.

After about 2-3 years of taking core classes I can maybe start taking Anatomy, Bio-Chem and Microbiology. Followed by a MCAT

My final step would be to apply to med schools at my retirement. The reason I am doing it this way is that my obvious goal is to retire from the military and be able to have a retirement check while I go to med school and also because at this time I have to be a father to my kids and have to think about my family. I would take all my premed classes at the same time I will have to work full time. I have always done this starting with my Bachelor degree (before Kids) and my graduate degree which I am one class from completing.

What do you guys think?

Also some random stats,
I have a GPA in BS of 3.1
My Grad Degree MPA 3.65
And hopefully a 3.8-4.0 for my Core classes (Pre-med)

 

[NTF]

Hello,

I've been a member of the forum since 2002. Back then I wanted to go to med-school and was enrolled in a pre med program. I started with Chemistry and Physics in the same semester. Since I had a Business background and very little math and science experience from my Bachelor Degree I struggled to do well in the two classes. I ended up with a B in Physics and I also dropped Chemistry. At the time I had two very young kids and I was dealing with some depression from not being employed and faced some financial issues.

Since then I joined the Air Force, turned my life around and now I am getting warmed up to get back to a road towards Medical School. Since I am 8-9 years from retirement and I plan to retire before I apply to Med Schools. I would like to do everything smartly, and take classes (premed) that will not only help me on my application to both MD/DO schools but also take classes that will prepare me for Med School. I am 30 now and I plan to apply as soon as I retire which for me will be about 39.

My question is: what classes other than the core classes would you guys suggest I take and in what order. My plan currently is to take a year of math. Take Algebra 2, followed by either Trig or Calculus. Than when I get strong in math I can then start taking the core classes.

After about 2-3 years of taking core classes I can maybe start taking Anatomy, Bio-Chem and Microbiology. Followed by a MCAT

My final step would be to apply to med schools at my retirement. The reason I am doing it this way is that my obvious goal is to retire from the military and be able to have a retirement check while I go to med school and also because at this time I have to be a father to my kids and have to think about my family. I would take all my premed classes at the same time I will have to work full time. I have always done this starting with my Bachelor degree (before Kids) and my graduate degree which I am one class from completing.

What do you guys think?

Also some random stats,
I have a GPA in BS of 3.1
My Grad Degree MPA 3.65
And hopefully a 3.8-4.0 for my Core classes (Pre-med)

9 years seems like a long time to hold off on med school. Is there any reason you don't want to apply earlier and maybe use the HPSP?

 

[BlueAvocado]

Well, I’ve looked at that option and it seems like a great choice. I like everything about it. However, ultimately it's a big risk for me. I have over 11 years in the Air Force and if I do that program in about 4 years (due to needing my premeds) I would have 15 years in service only 5 years left prior to retirement.

In order to do HPSP I would have to get out of the Air Force and I would only be eligible to get the small stipend that would definitely not be enough to support the family while I am in Medical School. Also, if for some reason I don't make it through Medical School, I take chance that the Air Force wouldn't take me back to finish my 5 years that I would need towards retirement.

I know this is sort of a negative attitude to have towards my dream of being a doctor, but I was under a similar situation going through flight school. It was grueling 3 years of training, because I depended on that job so much to support the family, I had all this extra stress and anxiety that it actually negatively impacted my training. I would rather not repeat that same experience. I felt burned out prematurely, and I think that was also because flying although very fun and rewarding was just not my calling in life.

Other than that, man would I love to apply and start med school. I spoke with a Flight Doc that basically went through the same path, but he got out to do HPSP, he also flew before that. However he didn't have family he was single so he could live on a small budget something I can't do. I figure this 8-9 years although long can prepare me to be successful at medical school, because let's be honest at 40 I am going to already be behind the young buck that are going to be smarter and fresher in school.

 

[J ROD]

Just start taking classes and building that GPA. Undergrad and Grad GPA are different. So, you will need to raise that undergrad GPA.

Dont forget to volunteer too!

 

[Pemberley]

In order to do HPSP I would have to get out of the Air Force and I would only be eligible to get the small stipend that would definitely not be enough to support the family while I am in Medical School. Also, if for some reason I don't make it through Medical School, I take chance that the Air Force wouldn't take me back to finish my 5 years that I would need towards retirement.

I know this is sort of a negative attitude to have towards my dream of being a doctor...

Not negative at all. You're supporting a family, so your need to evaluate and plan for the worst-case scenarios is much more urgent than that of a single person would be.

Your financial points above are well-taken. Of course, paying for civilian medical school on only your retirement pay also isn't financially feasible. 1/2 pay with no BAH isn't going to go very far once med school takes its bite out. Now that I think about it, though, if you have post 9/11 GI Bill benefits, that'll help. Then you'll be on 1/2 pay with E-5-with-dependents BAH and little/no tuition (presuming state school), which is still no walk in the park, but your debt will be lower than most.

Try to establish your state residency wisely (I recommend Texas) while you're still on active duty. Texas is especially wise if you do not have GI bill benefits remaining, because we have the Hazlewood Act.

In your place (committed to 20) I would strongly consider USUHS. Full pay (O-1) and BAH while in medical school is tough to beat (and then full O-3 + BAH -- maybe higher if you're prior commissioned -- while in residency). The downside, of course, is the barrier to choosing one's own residency, but if you don't object to being a flight surgeon for a while, it's a win-win. A lot of military medicine depends on which medical specialty you like, so if you have some idea, find some AF docs of that specialty and ask them about it before you seriously consider that path. The Military Medicine forum can be a fractious and depressing place, but (without taking anything you hear there as unbiased fact) it has some indication of the cons involved.

Now, to move on to the question that you actually asked... I'm a big proponent of understanding the mathematics that underlie the world, so I like it. Many people will tell you that math isn't necessary for medical school, which it isn't in the strictest sense, but if you want to go past memorization to understanding, it's a godsend. It's like learning to fly an aircraft without understanding kinetic & potential energy -- trading altitude for speed. You could, but you'd be handicapped. You would try to maneuver your aircraft at its maximum Gs without realizing that you were losing energy, and would inevitably either stall or hit the ground. You wouldn't begin to have an idea why your missile envelope was shaped how it is, etc, etc.

That's leaving aside for the moment entrance requirements, which usually do require at least one semester of college calculus.

As a former physics TA, I *strongly* endorse the following sequence, in order:
- Algebra 2
- Pre-calc
- Calculus
- Calculus-based physics
throwing your heart into every homework assignment for each one, using your TA relentlessly, and understanding the hell out of everything you do. The good news is that 30-year-olds usually find Algebra 2 to be much less awful than they found it in high school, due to a more mature brain & study habits, and the effect of self-motivation.

Freshman Biology is mostly pretty simplistic, so you could take it before you're done with the math sequence. HOWEVER, don't get tempted into moving too fast, taking too many classes at once, because bad grades now will put you squarely behind the 8-ball. You could always take it in the summer if your math classes aren't available then. One bad commander who makes an issue of your classtime can really hurt you (as I know from experience.)

The plan you laid out is slow & steady & sensible. 👍

 

[BlueAvocado]

Wow Pemberley, thank you for a great response. I take it you are in the military right now? May I ask what job you are doing? Thanks for laying out the facts for me and great insight and suggestions especially the rank of classes. I think I will mostly follow the path you suggested without going into Calculus based Physics 😱 I think my brain would implode.

I have also considered USHUS, and since I don't have an issue going back rank wise I just don't feel too comfortable not having control over my residency. For one, since I am going into this pretty late in my life I would not want to do a residency that was longer then I want it to be. I am really looking to go into family practice, pediatrician, or maybe at the most Derm, and I would hate to be put into a residency program that is going to place me in a never-ending residency. I think USHUS and military medicine in general is pretty good for the big reason that you are not overworked to death as in civilian residency counterparts. I guess what I am trying to say I see benefits on both sides I just don't have all the pieces put together to make the decision right now (Premeds)

Also, thanks for pointing out that Texas would be a good choice, since I have been in the military for a long time I don't really consider residency as a factor but if I do this after I get out it would definitely play into the financial aspect. Since I am willing to be a MD/DO that leaves me with many options available as far as schools are concerned. I am actually leaning towards DO since they seem to cater to a personality like mine and also to nontraditional students.

Anyways I am looking forward to getting more insightful info as I spend the next 8 years on this site 🙂 thanks again.