Looking for some input as I consider MSTP

[Tt1992]

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Hi Guys,

I'm relatively new to the forums and to the idea of MSTP in general, but after talking with the PI on the study I'm working on I feel like it might be a good fit for me. My basic question is whether or not I even have a chance at the programs, as I know they're very competitive.

I'll graduate with a 3,80 sGPA and I have a 40R on the MCAT. I have close to a year and a half of research experience (This and maybe the GPA is where I feel I'm hurting), and a lot of your generic "pre med volunteer" things. (I can list them, but i'm under the impression research is what matters.)

My plan right now, should I decide to go the MSTP route, is to complete a master's in the field I'd like to complete my PhD in (neuroscience) while I continue to work in the lab I've volunteered at as an undergrad as well as a lab at the master's program. I'm hoping a master's thesis and 2 more years of research at two different places should be enough to make it apparent that I know what I'm getting into.

Does this make sense? It seems sucky to tack on another two years to an already absurdly long education path, but I feel like I could benefit from the experience and I'm confident I can get into several programs close by with full funding.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Hi Guys,

I'm relatively new to the forums and to the idea of MSTP in general, but after talking with the PI on the study I'm working on I feel like it might be a good fit for me. My basic question is whether or not I even have a chance at the programs, as I know they're very competitive.

I'll graduate with a 3,80 sGPA and I have a 40R on the MCAT. I have close to a year and a half of research experience (This and maybe the GPA is where I feel I'm hurting), and a lot of your generic "pre med volunteer" things. (I can list them, but i'm under the impression research is what matters.)

My plan right now, should I decide to go the MSTP route, is to complete a master's in the field I'd like to complete my PhD in (neuroscience) while I continue to work in the lab I've volunteered at as an undergrad as well as a lab at the master's program. I'm hoping a master's thesis and 2 more years of research at two different places should be enough to make it apparent that I know what I'm getting into.

Does this make sense? It seems sucky to tack on another two years to an already absurdly long education path, but I feel like I could benefit from the experience and I'm confident I can get into several programs close by with full funding.

The degree doesn't count for much. It's the research experience that matters. So if you can get that working as a tech, that should work. Job vs. degree doesn't matter at all. Just make sure that if you do a masters the bulk of your work is research and not coursework.

I do not see your GPA as a weakness at all. I think you are very competitive. The MCAT is exceptional. Just get that research experience and I think you have a good shot at top 10 programs.

 

[Tt1992]

The degree doesn't count for much. It's the research experience that matters. So if you can get that working as a tech, that should work. Job vs. degree doesn't matter at all. Just make sure that if you do a masters the bulk of your work is research and not coursework.

I do not see your GPA as a weakness at all. I think you are very competitive. The MCAT is exceptional. Just get that research experience and I think you have a good shot at top 10 programs.

Thanks so much for the prompt reply! I'm thinking it may be easier for me to go into grad school than it would be to find a job unfortunately. There's so many premed hopefuls around here that a lot of them are doing tech work for free.

I'll definitely make sure I find a program that's slanted heavily towards research, however.

Is there anything other than the research I should work on? I have some stellar letters of recommendation lined up, one of which being my PI who is an MSTP graduate from a program I plan to apply to as well as head of a med school department. From what I've gathered MSTP cares less about other extra curriculars outside of research. Is this true?

 

[K31]

Concur in full with mercaptovizadeh that your GPA and MCAT are highly competitive, and that a master's degree wouldn't gain you much for MSTP admissions (and would likely end up being a waste of money).

Big question is research experience. 1.5years should meet cutoffs quantitatively, but qualitative matters too--what has been your involvement in the research. You need to be able to convince the admissions committee that you've had significant input in designing experiments and interpreting results (ie the process of science) rather than just carrying out experiments someone else has designed. That's up to you.

 

[Tt1992]

Concur in full with mercaptovizadeh that your GPA and MCAT are highly competitive, and that a master's degree wouldn't gain you much for MSTP admissions (and would likely end up being a waste of money).

Big question is research experience. 1.5years should meet cutoffs quantitatively, but qualitative matters too--what has been your involvement in the research. You need to be able to convince the admissions committee that you've had significant input in designing experiments and interpreting results (ie the process of science) rather than just carrying out experiments someone else has designed. That's up to you.

Thanks for the input! I guess what I'm having issues with is figuring out how exactly to get that research. To be honest I didn't do a lot of "designing" when it came to experiments. My job was heavily intensive with data analysis, however. Most of my work was in coding of videotaped experiments, but I also worked with saliva analysis.

I don't have enough benchwork experience, I guess is what I'm getting at. I was leaning towards the master's because I'll be able to complete a master's thesis of my own design, and I'm confident I can get my degree funded at some lesser competitive schools around here. I don't really care about the degree, per se, so much as the experience to work with some professors here at the university and design my own work.

What would you guys suggest for ways to get more experience? It's unlikely I'll have a lot of chance to have a say in how the experiments are conducted at my current lab, so I'll have to figure something else out.

 

[Watson104]

What would you guys suggest for ways to get more experience? It's unlikely I'll have a lot of chance to have a say in how the experiments are conducted at my current lab, so I'll have to figure something else out.

Hell, as a PhD or postdoc you don't necessarily have a lot of say in how experiments are conducted or at least the problem you're working on. Sometimes you get to try a million ways to accomplish something until your PI finally decides maybe your way might be worth a shot. Any PhD mostly involves troubleshooting to get that method your PI wants working. Mindless data analysis galore. Some people love the tinkering and like this process. I prefer the thinking and what next q's, which in my PhD, there doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day for them.

For MSTP applications - if you can talk about the research you've conducted enthusiastically and eloquently - ie what's the problem, hypothesis, methods, what results you got and what does that mean in context and how that can save the world - even if you only did a small fraction of the work involved, you'll be fine. If you can speak not completely naively on why you want to embark on this crazy pathway, then you'll be great. If you explain you found your research calling a little later in college that's fine. It's not expected that you decided as a freshman what you wanted to do and have been preparing your resume since then.

With your GPA and MCAT and just 1.5 yrs experience with awesome recs, you'll likely have some good MSTPs acceptances to choose from. I think it sounds like you're graduating this spring. Apply for MSTPs - EARLY - ie June/July. Keep doing research this year between graduating and matriculating in 2014. You'll have more research to talk about on the interview trail. Getting a masters and waiting a couple of years is a waste of your time. A masters in science is one of the most meaningless graduate degrees.

 

[Tt1992]

Hell, as a PhD or postdoc you don't necessarily have a lot of say in how experiments are conducted or at least the problem you're working on. Sometimes you get to try a million ways to accomplish something until your PI finally decides maybe your way might be worth a shot. Any PhD mostly involves troubleshooting to get that method your PI wants working. Mindless data analysis galore. Some people love the tinkering and like this process. I prefer the thinking and what next q's, which in my PhD, there doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day for them.

For MSTP applications - if you can talk about the research you've conducted enthusiastically and eloquently - ie what's the problem, hypothesis, methods, what results you got and what does that mean in context and how that can save the world - even if you only did a small fraction of the work involved, you'll be fine. If you can speak not completely naively on why you want to embark on this crazy pathway, then you'll be great. If you explain you found your research calling a little later in college that's fine. It's not expected that you decided as a freshman what you wanted to do and have been preparing your resume since then.

With your GPA and MCAT and just 1.5 yrs experience with awesome recs, you'll likely have some good MSTPs acceptances to choose from. I think it sounds like you're graduating this spring. Apply for MSTPs - EARLY - ie June/July. Keep doing research this year between graduating and matriculating in 2014. You'll have more research to talk about on the interview trail. Getting a masters and waiting a couple of years is a waste of your time. A masters in science is one of the most meaningless graduate degrees.

This is just what I needed. Thanks so much! I was very involved in the research project and spent a lot of time talking with the investigators so i can go on and on for ages about the different facets of the experiment. I know my research inside and out, so I feel like I can definitely hold my own in the interview if they ask me questions about anything related to the study.

My one concern is that I don't have a lot of benchwork experience and I want to work in a more benchwork area. I spent a lot of time doing the equivalent of psychology research when I really feel more drawn to neurobiology. I spent some time running tests in the lab with the whole "beaker and test tube" thing, but a lot of my work was in front of a computer. I'm afraid to express interest in a field that I have less experience in. Will this be a hurdle for me?

 

[Fencer]

I agree with the advice from Watson104, K31 and mercapto... they are right on target. PM me if you have further questions that you don't want to articulate openly.

 

[Neuronix]

My advice would just to be apply. Your application is fairly strong.

 

[FalconSlice]

My advice would just to be apply. Your application is fairly strong.

Yes, but I would relax and get ready for the whirlwind of the application process, OP. It's fairly stressful and frustrating but oh so worth it. Good luck!

 

[Watson104]

. . . but a lot of my work was in front of a computer. I'm afraid to express interest in a field that I have less experience in. Will this be a hurdle for me?

A lot of any PhD work is in front of my computer. Most people don't stay in the same field as their undergrad work. Many MD,PhD's don't do postdoc research in a field directly related to PhD work. It's about learning the scientific process, not nearly as much about the actual science and even less about techniques. Techniques today can be completely worthless in 3-5 yrs time. Be engaged and enthusiastic - you'll be fine.

 

[Tt1992]

Thanks for all the replies guys. Do you have any input on where I should apply? Where am I competitive?

 

[StIGMA]

Thanks for all the replies guys. Do you have any input on where I should apply? Where am I competitive?

You are competitive everywhere. Apply to at least 15 programs, more if you are applying to all of the top programs. Include at least 5 or so non-top 20 MSTP's. Apply to more places if you are not from a top university (eg: if you are at a mid-tier state university, you should apply to additional programs).

 

[Tt1992]

Is there a list somewhere of MSTP rankings and a little about the program? Would be nice to have that all compiled in one place.

 

[latebutterflu]

https://www.google.com/search?q=list+of+mstp+rankings

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=918777

http://www.nigms.nih.gov/Training/InstPredoc/PredocInst-MSTP.htm

 

[Tt1992]

https://www.google.com/search?q=list+of+mstp+rankings

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=918777

http://www.nigms.nih.gov/Training/InstPredoc/PredocInst-MSTP.htm

Thanks for this.

From looking at that spreadsheet listed on the SDN forum my GPA is lower than a lot of those programs. Should I still apply to things like John Hopkins with the apparent GPA of 3.97 or would I be better off saving my money and applying to things that are a little less of a reach and lower on the list.

Also, how much does the ranking matter when I'm choosing a school? I would love to stay around MA but my options in that area are limited if I'm applying to 20+ schools. I'm also not going to go to Tufts rather than a higher ranked school in a less desirable area if that's going to have a measurable affect on my career,

 

[uniqenam]

Thanks for this.

From looking at that spreadsheet listed on the SDN forum my GPA is lower than a lot of those programs. Should I still apply to things like John Hopkins with the apparent GPA of 3.97 or would I be better off saving my money and applying to things that are a little less of a reach and lower on the list.

It's worth it, the process is very random; you will get rejections from schools that your GPA is higher than the average, and interviews from schools where yours is lower. Your GPA is very competitive, I wouldn't worry about it anyway...mine was similar (a bit lower) than yours, and I had numerous MSTP interview invitations, although none to Harvard/Hopkins. Your high MCAT will help there as well; numbers-wise I wouldn't think anything is holding you back.

 

[Tt1992]

Somehow the fact that it's kinda random at times is almost reassuring to me. Makes me feel like there's hope even if I'm not perfect in every way like a lot of the guys and gals applying.

 

[Tt1992]

I've decided to take an extra year so I'll have a little over 2 years of research. I'm hoping to have some presentations or maybe a publication by the end of that year. Would I benefit majorly from taking more than 1 more year or am I just drawing out the process too much. At this point with the extra year I will be 24 by the time I go in (in Fall of 2016). Don't particularly want to be much older than that before I start on MD and Phd

 

[latebutterflu]

Would I benefit majorly from taking more than 1 more year

No. 2.5 years of research with your high GPA/MCAT should be more than enough, as long as you can talk about your work coherently.