LOR Dillemma; Please Help!

[Haybrant]

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Hi,

I have one non-sci LOR, a LOR from my research prof for a course i was given credit for, and 2 sci LOR's.
However, one of my sci LOR's writers got pretty mad at me for pushing her to finish up my LOR even though it was taking her like 4 months. So, im hesistant to send her letter but some schools like UCSD say they want 2 letters from undergrad sci profs of mine (my research LOR is not from my undergrad tho the class i got credit for was undergrad honors research.)
Cost/benefit analysis time: is it worth sending her letter even tho i havent read it considering she was mad at me before she sent it in and not meet their requirement. What would you do? Should i just write the recommender and ask if she wrote anything detrimental? Not sure what to do!

 

[Haybrant]

anyone?

 

[KiKat37]

Tough situation... I don't know what to tell you. But, I would def. NOT ask the writer if she wrote anything detrimental. It would be very awkward, I think. Hum... I think I would send the letter in anyway. If you don't provide two letters from sci. profs, your file won't be considered complete and it won't be reviewed... Or, you could decide not to send the letter and ask the med school for an exception to their LOR policy...? Sorry I can't help more!

 

[hardyharhar]

Hi,

I agree with Kat above and don't think you should approach your s***ty letter writer if her letter was s***ty. No more pushing her buttons.
Can you maybe get another science person to write this letter? A lab TA maybe? If not, maybe you can ask those places requiring 2 science letters to consider your research letter instead? Better than just saying, "Screw it, man, I don't have a science letter." Maybe they will make this exception for you if you say that these are all you've got?

 

[hardyharhar]

Hi,

I agree with Kat above and don't think you should approach your s***ty letter writer if her letter was s***ty. No more pushing her buttons.
Can you maybe get another science person to write this letter? A lab TA maybe? A postdoc in your lab? If not, maybe you can ask those places requiring 2 science letters to consider your research letter instead? Better than just saying, "Screw it, man, I don't have a science letter." Maybe they will make this exception for you if you say that these are all you've got?

 

[acl3623]

sucks....that was one of the worst parts about this process...was getting damn profs to send the letters. how do you know she's mad? i mean it like really obvious? because most profs will just say that they wont write you a letter at all if they dont have anything nice to say. i had a prof tell me that he didnt know me well enough so to get someone else...mmm...i dont know, do you have anyone else you can ask? if you think of any options, tell the prof your situation and that its very urgent, maybe that would work.

then again, you never know. maybe she just wrote you a very generic letter not necessarily glowing. like kitkat said though, i wouldnt ask if she wrote anything bad....did you send a thank you???a thank you and a giftcard to barnes and noble may irk her to talk to you...sorry!!!

 

[sven]

Haybrant,

A little more background would be very helpful. How mad is mad? And what did you do to push her? I absolutely would not inquire directly if she wrote anything detrimental. If she got over being angry and wrote you a good lor, she will probably get pissed off again if you imply that she did any less than a great job. If you're using the letter, you want to get back on the right track and rebuild your relationship. If she really did a lackluster job, why would you trust her to accurately portray the content of the letter?

My personal approach would be an apology. If possible, meet up with her and tell her that you are sorry for having pushed her, that you realize how extraordinarily busy she is, that you've just been very anxious and jittery about the whole process, and that you are very greatful that she's fulfilled your request. You should be able to glean something from this interaction that will alert you as to the nature of the letter. If she remains angry or aloof, I would not use the letter. If she says, "Sorry for being a bit late, but I wrote you a bang-up letter" you may be in the clear. If you're too afraid to talk to her to do this, then forget about the letter.

Also, try and reflect on your behavior in encouraging her to finish the letter. Were you mature and reasonable? How would other profs have responded? Were you treating her like someone that you intended to maintain a long-term relationship with? If not, can the letter 'cause it's probably useless if not outright harmful.

I got away with only one strictly science letter even at schools that said they required two. A glowing letter from someone who likes you and knows you well may be better than a poor one from the desired source.

 

[Haybrant]

thanks for all the replies! so, yah she's pretty mad at me so maybe ill try and first talk to schools about it then maybe see if i can ask her somehow; what's the worst she can do at this point anyway? thanks

 

[Haybrant]

has anyone had success getting them to change the LOR requirements? It doesnt really seem like that much of a stretch to have my research advisor be my sci rec but what do i know...

 

[X.O.]

Are you going through a comitee letter or sending the letters seperately? I think the rules are pretty lax for the former and I dont know how everyone deals with all the different insane requirements for the latter.

I would try to smooth things out with the prof, apologize for any assy behavior on your part and explain how a delay in getting letters will hurt you badly which is true, and then ask point blank if she/he would be willing to write a strong letter to support your aps. Shes got all the power in this situation so I would attempt a salvage. Hope you get a letter that wont help or hurt you like most letters of rec.


I wouldnt write her but do it face to face or at least on the phone. Ideally, you should have had a backup so you could have dumped her ass at the first sign of trouble. Theres a tip for anyone applying next year, ask for multiple letters and have someone screen them to pick your best ones.

 

[Haybrant]

Are you going through a comitee letter or sending the letters seperately? I think the rules are pretty lax for the former and I dont know how everyone deals with all the different insane requirements for the latter.

I would try to smooth things out with the prof, apologize for any assy behavior on your part and explain how a delay in getting letters will hurt you badly which is true, and then ask point blank if she/he would be willing to write a strong letter to support your aps. Shes got all the power in this situation so I would attempt a salvage. Hope you get a letter that wont help or hurt you like most letters of rec.


I wouldnt write her but do it face to face or at least on the phone. Ideally, you should have had a backup so you could have dumped her ass at the first sign of trouble. Theres a tip for anyone applying next year, ask for multiple letters and have someone screen them to pick your best ones.

how do you screen letters? also, the letter from my biatchy prof has been written and submitted; its a matter of figuring out now if its ok to send; i wasnt too assy, just a tad, but for someone waiting 4 months i was polite. Agreed tho, you must get back ups.

 

[sven]

how do you screen letters? also, the letter from my biatchy prof has been written and submitted; its a matter of figuring out now if its ok to send; i wasnt too assy, just a tad, but for someone waiting 4 months i was polite. Agreed tho, you must get back ups.

Who is incharge of sending letters at your school? If possible, I'd suggest having your advisor look over the letter and tell you if it's ok to send. If the process is more bureaucratic and impersonal, try and make friends with someone who has access to the letters. Explain your dilemma and perhaps they can help...

 

[Haybrant]

Who is incharge of sending letters at your school? If possible, I'd suggest having your advisor look over the letter and tell you if it's ok to send. If the process is more bureaucratic and impersonal, try and make friends with someone who has access to the letters. Explain your dilemma and perhaps they can help...

id totally do this but i guess there is some legal issue regarding waivers; and yes, its as impersonal as can be; i should refused waiving my right to see the letter but i doubt she woulda written it then; gotta figure out what to do asap?! i think im gonna call schools and tell them ive been out for a year and see if they will let me substitute my research advisor who is also my current employer....

 

[Code Brown]

id totally do this but i guess there is some legal issue regarding waivers; and yes, its as impersonal as can be; i should refused waiving my right to see the letter but i doubt she woulda written it then; gotta figure out what to do asap?! i think im gonna call schools and tell them ive been out for a year and see if they will let me substitute my research advisor who is also my current employer....

You can always contact the letter writer and ask to see the letter that she wrote. Just tell her that you would like to know what tone she took so you can be better prepared for your interviews and so that nothing will conflict with what she wrote. Time to bite the bullet and make up .

 

[Haybrant]

You can always contact the letter writer and ask to see the letter that she wrote. Just tell her that you would like to know what tone she took so you can be better prepared for your interviews and so that nothing will conflict with what she wrote. Time to bite the bullet and make up .

this is a great suggestion that im considering trying; anyone else have any ideas about this?

 

[PKP719]

why would professors write nasty LOR if they know that LOR supposed to be a good thing and reflect good key points about you ? I am sure when they were in school and going for their PHD and etc , they had to get LOR and they expected good reviews.

 

[acl3623]

personally, i would be hesitant to ask to read the letter. this is the whole point of waiving your right. so that the professor can talk about their true feelings of you and not be "scared" into writing something good. ive been able to see two of my 5 letters, only because the people that wrote them sent them to me before they sent them out. i guess they were just xtra nice. the other ones...i kinda had trouble with one prof to the point where i was getting mad at him..he wrote the letter and i think it was good. but i wouldnt ask to see it, even though i had a good relationship with him...i dont know...i would go with asking schools if you can substitute a letter. i think if youve been with an employer for a while, they can write really helpful letters....i had a couple of schools make exeptions for me...all you can do is try!

 

[Haybrant]

personally, i would be hesitant to ask to read the letter. this is the whole point of waiving your right. so that the professor can talk about their true feelings of you and not be "scared" into writing something good. ive been able to see two of my 5 letters, only because the people that wrote them sent them to me before they sent them out. i guess they were just xtra nice. the other ones...i kinda had trouble with one prof to the point where i was getting mad at him..he wrote the letter and i think it was good. but i wouldnt ask to see it, even though i had a good relationship with him...i dont know...i would go with asking schools if you can substitute a letter. i think if youve been with an employer for a while, they can write really helpful letters....i had a couple of schools make exeptions for me...all you can do is try!

thanks for the input; the thing is that sometimes true feelings of how a student was in class may be clouded by fleeting moments of anger at a student for his need of a letter, so that's my concern. I was damn good in my classes and would hate for that to be tarnished; ill try out changing requirement as a first step tho

 

[Khenon]

why would professors write nasty LOR if they know that LOR supposed to be a good thing and reflect good key points about you ? I am sure when they were in school and going for their PHD and etc , they had to get LOR and they expected good reviews.

My thesis advisor (for a master's) wrote me a good letter for my next program, but then gave me a horrible verbal reference when I applied for a job this year. It's really hard to say "why" they would give a bad reference, but some do. You really have to be careful.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Who is incharge of sending letters at your school? If possible, I'd suggest having your advisor look over the letter and tell you if it's ok to send. If the process is more bureaucratic and impersonal, try and make friends with someone who has access to the letters. Explain your dilemma and perhaps they can help...

yes, that is excellent advice.

but come on how mad can she be at you? for what? for asking her to complete something you asked her *if* she would do (she could have said "no") 4 months ago? If you know she thought highly of you i wouldn't worry about it.

wow the LORs were my least problem; i actually had profs, etc asking me if they could write a letter for me.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

My thesis advisor (for a master's) wrote me a good letter for my next program, but then gave me a horrible verbal reference when I applied for a job this year. It's really hard to say "why" they would give a bad reference, but some do. You really have to be careful.

what??? was that accurate? If so why would you ask that person for a reference? if not, you should have discussed it and get the person to restate it.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

personally, i would be hesitant to ask to read the letter. this is the whole point of waiving your right. so that the professor can talk about their true feelings of you and not be "scared" into writing something good. ive been able to see two of my 5 letters, only because the people that wrote them sent them to me before they sent them out. i guess they were just xtra nice. the other ones...i kinda had trouble with one prof to the point where i was getting mad at him..he wrote the letter and i think it was good. but i wouldnt ask to see it, even though i had a good relationship with him...i dont know...i would go with asking schools if you can substitute a letter. i think if youve been with an employer for a while, they can write really helpful letters....i had a couple of schools make exeptions for me...all you can do is try!

NEVER ask to read a LOR, it's fine if they offer but don't ask. And that is why you waive your right.

 

[Haybrant]

yes, that is excellent advice.

but come on how mad can she be at you? for what? for asking her to complete something you asked her *if* she would do (she could have said "no") 4 months ago? If you know she thought highly of you i wouldn't worry about it.

wow the LORs were my least problem; i actually had profs, etc asking me if they could write a letter for me.

you had profs asking you? i take you didnt go to a school where there are 300+ students in your class like cal; there aint no prof, cept my research one, that asked my ass and i was tops in most classes....

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Haybrant,

A little more background would be very helpful. How mad is mad? And what did you do to push her? I absolutely would not inquire directly if she wrote anything detrimental. If she got over being angry and wrote you a good lor, she will probably get pissed off again if you imply that she did any less than a great job. If you're using the letter, you want to get back on the right track and rebuild your relationship. If she really did a lackluster job, why would you trust her to accurately portray the content of the letter?

My personal approach would be an apology. If possible, meet up with her and tell her that you are sorry for having pushed her, that you realize how extraordinarily busy she is, that you've just been very anxious and jittery about the whole process, and that you are very greatful that she's fulfilled your request. You should be able to glean something from this interaction that will alert you as to the nature of the letter. If she remains angry or aloof, I would not use the letter. If she says, "Sorry for being a bit late, but I wrote you a bang-up letter" you may be in the clear. If you're too afraid to talk to her to do this, then forget about the letter.

Also, try and reflect on your behavior in encouraging her to finish the letter. Were you mature and reasonable? How would other profs have responded? Were you treating her like someone that you intended to maintain a long-term relationship with? If not, can the letter 'cause it's probably useless if not outright harmful.

I got away with only one strictly science letter even at schools that said they required two. A glowing letter from someone who likes you and knows you well may be better than a poor one from the desired source.

great questions and great advice! 👍

 

[Khenon]

what??? was that accurate? If so why would you ask that person for a reference? if not, you should have discussed it and get the person to restate it.

I didn't think I needed to "ask" my thesis advisor for a reference. A thesis advisor is extremely important to one's career. The fact that he gave me a "good" reference when I moved on to another program made me think he was providing me with "good" references. But I found out the hard way that he wasn't. You don't usually have to ask your thesis advisor if they'll be a reference. It's assumed that you're doing so much work, and getting a master's (or Ph.D) that they'll have to give you a reference for any future programs or work. I had no idea that he thought so negatively of me, or I would have asked . . . well, I guess I just wouldn't have used him. Coincedentally, I'm not using him for med school, and I'm afraid this is going to come up if I get interviewed. It's definitely NOT a good thing to not use your thesis advisor. I don't know how I'm going to explain that one to adcoms!

 

[Psycho Doctor]

you had profs asking you? i take you didnt go to a school where there are 300+ students in your class like cal; there aint no prof, cept my research one, that asked my ass and i was tops in most classes....

well i go to a large university but upper level classes don't have as many people in the classes. some weren't profs but MDs or chairmen of organizations i was involved in.

 

[Haybrant]

so; thanks for the input people; my prof emailed me today after i had decided to give up on the letter and said she wrote a good one, so i shouldnt worry about it. I think it's genuine since I hadnt emailed at all; she wouldnt try and trick me now would she? 🙂

 

[joseph2707]

I think you should forward the letter writer this thread and then tell her thanks for nothing and to F**K OFF!