Lor

[Smitty]

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I'm a 4th year student most likely applying for path this fall. I've already completed my path elective and at some point am going to have to ask for LORs. The only problem is I'm not really sure if I know any of our path faculty well enough to ask for them at this point. I'm signed up for another path elective in a couple of months, but I had thought of switching that month to later in the year, after the match. Now I'm thinking maybe I should go ahead and do another month before I apply just to ensure I have enough contact with faculty to feel comfortable asking for LORs. All this is also complicated by the fact that I'm trying to decide whether or not to do an outside path rotation. Any of you guys out there who have already matched have similar problems/issues?

 

[HotSteamingTurd]

Well, I'd be starting my 4th year too and I haven't done a path rotation here yet. At U of Michigan, doing a pathology rotation during 3rd year is virtually impossible. And I won't be doing a path rotation until September so I'm not in the best case scenario either. I know of at least 3 or 4 others who are in similar situations. I realize that pathology isn't the most popular field (yet) and so many med schools don't have path rotations as core rotations during 3rd year. Because of that, I think there are a significant number of people in similar situations as us.

The nice thing about path is that (as I have heard), it's not too difficult to do well in path. Faculty in path are for the most part pretty laid back folks who realize that not many people go into this field...so being enthusiastic goes a long way. It's not like general surgery, subspecialty surgery, dermatology, and to a lesser extent internal medicine where you not only have to be enthusiastic, but you have to be all uber competitive, be a know-it-all, shine at the right place/right time, and perform random sexual favors to stand out from amongst your peers. Oh great, now my angst with the whole med school system comes out once again.

 

[yaah]

Well, you know Smitty, not every LOR has to attest to everything about you. Part of the reason for having 3 letters is that they may come from different sorts of people. All 3 of mine happened to come from pathologists, but mostly that was because that is who I knew the most. You don't need to have all your letters from pathologists. I think at most places they require all your letters to be from academic faculty but this may be flexible.

I think if there is a director (or coordinator) of that elective (that you already did), it doesn't hurt to ask for a letter of reference, because most likely the director probably talked to everyone you worked with and got a pretty good picture of who you were and how you work. They don't need to put in their letter your deepest thoughts, fears, hidden talents. It is important that they attest to your ability to function in the department, your level of interest, enthusiasm, etc. I can sympathize though that you don't think you know them enough. But it doesn't hurt to ask.

LORs are pretty important, though. While I wouldn't necessarily do a rotation simply for the sake of getting an LOR, it can be an important factor.

I like turd's comments, although I would add that while pathology folks can be laid back, they are not often people who look the other way at sloppy or lazy behavior. They expect hard work, intelligence, etc. You can still have fun, of course, but the job is important.

 

[HotSteamingTurd]

Well put Yaah.
I didn't imply that sub-par work was tolerated by pathology faculty.
However, the whole mentality of med school doesn't penetrate deep in the work of pathology. What I refer to by "mentality of med school" is this: the main motivation of doing work (especially scut work) in the hospital (especially on internal medicine) is the fear that you're evaluations will suffer if you don't do them. There are so many of my classmates who actually offer to transport X-ray films for residents with a big smiles on their faces. There are students who yearn to write that NPO order in the chart. There are students who feel obligated to take on that extra patient at 3 a.m. on a call night (sure, students like me just go to bed and are content on waking up 2 hours later to pre-round). Believe it or not, there are students at my school who *volunteer* to give talks on random topics just to get extra brownie points on evaluations. Some students will refuse to go home thinking, "the resident will think I'm weak if I go home." Instead, they will ask incessantly, "Are you suuuuure there isn't anything else I could do to help you out." All this **** would not be done if there was no evaluation system which further belies the shallow nature of the med student mind. Oh yeah, I almost forgot...random sexual flavors.
Now, from talking to my friends who have done pathology rotations and have actually matched at awesome programs, that kind of pressure just isn't there. It's all about showing up to work, doing the assigned work enthusiastically because you like it, finishing the work, and going home. Everything in life is relative and pathology is a better world.

 

[Brian Pavlovitz]

Well put Yaah.
I didn't imply that sub-par work was tolerated by pathology faculty.
However, the whole mentality of med school doesn't penetrate deep in the work of pathology. What I refer to by "mentality of med school" is this: the main motivation of doing work (especially scut work) in the hospital (especially on internal medicine) is the fear that you're evaluations will suffer if you don't do them. There are so many of my classmates who actually offer to transport X-ray films for residents with a big smiles on their faces. There are students who yearn to write that NPO order in the chart. There are students who feel obligated to take on that extra patient at 3 a.m. on a call night (sure, students like me just go to bed and are content on waking up 2 hours later to pre-round). Believe it or not, there are students at my school who *volunteer* to give talks on random topics just to get extra brownie points on evaluations. Some students will refuse to go home thinking, "the resident will think I'm weak if I go home." Instead, they will ask incessantly, "Are you suuuuure there isn't anything else I could do to help you out." All this **** would not be done if there was no evaluation system which further belies the shallow nature of the med student mind. Oh yeah, I almost forgot...random sexual flavors.
Now, from talking to my friends who have done pathology rotations and have actually matched at awesome programs, that kind of pressure just isn't there. It's all about showing up to work, doing the assigned work enthusiastically because you like it, finishing the work, and going home. Everything in life is relative and pathology is a better world.

To quote cookypuss: "Amen, brutha'!"

 

[yaah]

A second amen!

Although I was one of the people offering to transport xrays, go on little errands, etc. Because that meant I could go off on my own and kill some time, maybe go to the cafeteria, check email, all that.

I would write orders if they wanted, but usually wouldn't sign my name or pager so they wouldn't call me if something went wrong. Besides, as I told the residents, my orders are illegal unless you sign them anyway.

And actually, once I did offer to give a random talk...but I had alterior motives. I wanted them to give me time off to go "work on the presentation."

But you are right about the suckasses.

Pathology is a better world. I like that. Fewer suckasses. Minimal poo. No 3am admissions. Less politics. Great stuff. And we all like our jobs! Something to be said for that.

 

[Smitty]

Yeah, I would run an x-ray or some other crap every now and then too, mainly because 1. could get away for a few minutes and 2. i actually felt sorry for a lot of the interns; their life is ****, so I didn't mind helping out every now and then. Path is awesome as far as there is so much less BS than any other specialty. I ache for the day I can grow a scruffy ass beard and show up every day tie-less!

 

[HotSteamingTurd]

Yep...and as future pathologists, NO INTERN YEAR BABY!!!