Lords of COVID Quackery

[Sparda29]

P.S. Medicare and private insurance wasted 129 million dollars on Ivermectin in the last year.

My hospital messed up big time by ordering over 100,000 doses Hydroxychloroquine 200 mg tabs back in April 2020. Our inventory manager happens to be a Trump supporter back.

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[Old Timer]

This just shows the US. needs to make a new department and funding that studies off patent drugs and non prescription items for health conditions. An office that takes no funding from big pharma. There is too much bias against these types of therapies in our current healthcare setup. The organization would have to be structured independent of pharma funding or people with ties to the pharma industry. So many other potential anti viral therapies to study beyond ivermectin/hydroxychloroquine.


Molnupiravir shouldn't have ever even been allowed to be approved due to teratogenic concerns in mice. Rick Bright brought a whistle blower suit against this 1.5 years ago. Alot of potential corruption behind the scenes with hedge funds and what not. There were other promising antivirals in the same class as molnupiravir that didn't have teratogenic effects but never even made it out of phase 1 trials for covid because NIAID killed the study. Why molnupiravir was allowed to go forward is a great mystery.

Hey Captain Conspiracy theory:
What is the most studied drug of the pandemic? Hydroxychloroquine, You really need to know what the heck you are taking about. Right now there are studies still going on and still being recruited for Ivermectin. Head over to clinical trials.gov and see what's really happening. Still think Seward was in on the Lincoln assassination?

 

[JustFillIt]

Hey Captain Conspiracy theory:
What is the most studied drug of the pandemic? Hydroxychloroquine, You really need to know what the heck you are taking about. Right now there are studies still going on and still being recruited for Ivermectin. Head over to clinical trials.gov and see what's really happening. Still think Seward was in on the Lincoln assassination?

Although I agree with the principal of most of your positions. The way you regard others makes me consider you just as bad as anyone else “on the other side”.

If I was hesitant toward a decision - your attitude would certainly not help me to see a different point of view. You are not helping the situation if you regard the public in this manner

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Although I agree with the principal of most of your positions. The way you regard others makes me consider you just as bad as anyone else “on the other side”.

If I was hesitant toward a decision - your attitude would certainly not help me to see a different point of view. You are not helping the situation if you regard the public in this manner

This board isn't intended for the consumption of the general public.

If you are a pharmacist and, given the evidence available, you think that there is any place for ivermectin use in the treatment of COVID-19, you are clueless and need a good yelling at.

 

[MatCauthon]

Except he just attacked me and I wasn't even defending ivermectin. I don't know much about the ivermectin research and haven't ever defended it. I also did not take an anti vaccine stance, although I am excited for a new covid vaccine that is not just based on the spike protein. Admittedly I see my post is not worded the best way
All I said was there are many potential antiviral therapies to study beyond ivermectin/hydroxychloroquine and it would be nice to be studied in a neutral supportive environment. What I am talking about are some of the promising options listed by the institute of functional medicine. Items such as melatonin, beta glucans, n-acetyl cysteine, quercetin, etc. I am not recommending any of them, just saying they all need to be studied more. They are all listed with evidence tables here: The Functional Medicine Approach to COVID-19: Additional Research on Nutraceuticals and Botanicals | The Institute for Functional Medicine


I'm supportive of anything that works as long as it gets an honest shot. Evidence based of course

The rest of my post criticized molpunavir that is only 30% effective in preventing hospitalization for at risk patients, has mutagenic concerns, and is not really that great of a therapeutic. Paxlovid a much better option.

 

[Old Timer]

Except he just attacked me and I wasn't even defending ivermectin. I don't know much about the ivermectin research and haven't ever defended it. I also did not take an anti vaccine stance, although I am excited for a new covid vaccine that is not just based on the spike protein. Admittedly I see my post is not worded the best way
All I said was there are many potential antiviral therapies to study beyond ivermectin/hydroxychloroquine and it would be nice to be studied in a neutral supportive environment. What I am talking about are some of the promising options listed by the institute of functional medicine. Items such as melatonin, beta glucans, n-acetyl cysteine, quercetin, etc. I am not recommending any of them, just saying they all need to be studied more. They are all listed with evidence tables here: The Functional Medicine Approach to COVID-19: Additional Research on Nutraceuticals and Botanicals | The Institute for Functional Medicine


I'm supportive of anything that works as long as it gets an honest shot. Evidence based of course

The rest of my post criticized molpunavir that is only 30% effective in preventing hospitalization for at risk patients, has mutagenic concerns, and is not really that great of a therapeutic. Paxlovid a much better option.

I didn't attack you. I pointed out what you want to happen is happening. Hydoxychloroqine was studied. Ivermectin is being studied, Colchicine was studied, There are many clinical trials. The Resolve trial discovered the effectiveness of dexamethasone. All of these outside of "Big Pharma"
I point you again to Home - ClinicalTrials.govwhere you can search to your hearts content what is being done.
Consider yourself yelled at again.

 

[MatCauthon]

I didn't attack you. I pointed out what you want to happen is happening. Hydoxychloroqine was studied. Ivermectin is being studied, Colchicine was studied, There are many clinical trials. The Resolve trial discovered the effectiveness of dexamethasone. All of these outside of "Big Pharma"
I point you again to Home - ClinicalTrials.govwhere you can search to your hearts content what is being done.
Consider yourself yelled at again.

Once again context is everything. sure there alot of clinical trials, and I know how to look at them. Still could use alot more. Also only so many resources and many of these trials are not fast tracked or given adequate resources. in terms of pharmas there are hundreds of registered trials for various therapies and vaccines. Some of shown great promise but they don't get a lot of favoritism from the government.

I've been watching various clinical trials since the pandemic began. It has even happened in some of the vaccine trials of smaller players. many promising trials have been shut down early other companies have been waiting at the back and call (eg Novavax) of the FDA forced to do 2nd phase 3 trials for the delta variant while their competitors slipped right through without the same requirement. there is a great deal of competition and lobbying behind the scenes. Books could be written about some of the behind true scenes stuff in operation warp speed. limited resources lots of competition, Entire supply chains and manufacturing facilities locked down by the bigger players to make access in market much harder for anyone else.

it is no surprise that mainly the big backed players survived so far in the therapeutic and vaccine trials. Moderna was a smaller company at the onset but it had powerful backing in the NIAID and among donors.
So I'm hoping for more therapeutic options and 2nd generation vaccines to rise out of the next wave of research, but still almost everything happening is big pharma related so far: remdesiivir, The vaccines, molnupiravir (Merck), antibody cocktails (regeneron, etc), Paxlovid, etc. I have seen the trials on fluvoxamine and other options, so I know there are other options being considered for treatment guidelines which is great. But I will keep watching and see how many of those options ever get included in guidelines and emergency use authorizations compared to some of the products from the bigger drug companies with lots of financial backing.

In the clinical trial pipelines there are some truly revolutionary vaccine companies in phase 2 trials right now, but they are from very small pharma companies facing big obstacles. I hope at least 1 of them can make it out, especially the oral tablet liposome vaccine that is stable at room temperature and can be mailed across the country requiring no medical professionals for administering.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

In all seriousness, what’s the risk of filling an ivermectin script for a patient? (assuming it’s not being prescribed at crazy high dose)

I just don’t see how this is any different than any other drug being prescribed for an off-label use (which we all know happens quite often)

PS I’m not supporting using ivermectin for Covid

"What's the problem with doing a few flu shots for free?"
-some pharmacist back in the day.

Let me say this loud for the doormat pharmacists: IF YOU PRACTICE BY THE MOTO "well it's not worth the hassle just do it" YOU DESERVE THE METRICS YOU SUFFER UNDER

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Where did I say to skip the vaccine?....

ANY new COVID treatment available in the US is under severe LIMITED supply.... paxlovid is literally distributed to a handful of pharmacies nationwide every two weeks.... mAb treatment is either under limited supply or strictly not distributed....

What about the large majority of patients who have been vaccinate, contract COVID w/ worsening symptoms with NO AVAILABLE treatment?... Even worse, what about countries that still do not have access to vaccine? Do they sit around and wait to be hospitalized or do they take a chance on a promising, low cost, readily available treatment, that has a less adverse profile than a snickers bar.

Why do boomers always use random capitalization?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Also, my favorite thing about COVID conspiracy theory people is that they are almost always pp politically far right wing, but when they advocate against "Big Pharma", what they are really saying is that they want socialized, commie Medicine. Hahahahaha

 

[Old Timer]

Take a read or listen:
Grand Rounds: Debunking Ivermania — ICU One Pager

 

[pinkpharmd]

I was behind on my White House COVID -19 press conference and just saw the replay from January 12 and I did not hear Dr. Fauci wrong. Apparently, the unvaccinated will have priority to the oral agents during these limited supply times. Is anyone else bothered by this? The system just rewards bad behaviors. I did not qualify for any of the $100 vaccine incentives because I took all my vaccines prior to all these incentives. I paid good money in 2020 for masks, cleaning supplies, PPE, canned food, TOILET PAPER when nobody knew what was going on. I am paying taxes and dealing with the high cost of food and just about everything else. And now, if I get SARS-CoV2, I will be in Tier 4? MAYBE at best TIEr 4

 

[Old Timer]

It keeps getting better for Ivermectin. Yet another study retracted:

RETRACTED ARTICLE: The mechanisms of action of Ivermectin against SARS-CoV-2: An evidence-based clinical review article - The Journal of Antibiotics

“The cited sources do not appear to show that there is clear clinical evidence of the effect of Ivermectin for the treatment of SARS-CoV-2”

 

[PharmDminus]

It keeps getting better for Ivermectin. Yet another study retracted:

RETRACTED ARTICLE: The mechanisms of action of Ivermectin against SARS-CoV-2: An evidence-based clinical review article - The Journal of Antibiotics

“The cited sources do not appear to show that there is clear clinical evidence of the effect of Ivermectin for the treatment of SARS-CoV-2”

did you see the recent prospective observational study out of Brazil? Study design seems pretty flawed from my brief look at it.

 

[BidingMyTime]

So with EUA Molnupiravir and PAXLOVID available commercially at select locations (my current store)...can we finally stop beating this dead horse with baseball bats?

I have to know, is the reason the horse is dead, is that it died from malnutrition from a massive worm infection, because humans used up all of its ivermectin? This is such a sad story, poor horsie. This is reason enough to stop with the ivermectin, think of the horses!

 

[RxPreceptor]

I have to know, is the reason the horse is dead, is that it died from malnutrition from a massive worm infection, because humans used up all of its ivermectin? This is such a sad story, poor horsie. This is reason enough to stop with the ivermectin, think of the horses!

Ok, this is the sense of humor I appreciate on SDN 👍

 

[lane one]

I was behind on my White House COVID -19 press conference and just saw the replay from January 12 and I did not hear Dr. Fauci wrong. Apparently, the unvaccinated will have priority to the oral agents during these limited supply times. Is anyone else bothered by this? The system just rewards bad behaviors. I did not qualify for any of the $100 vaccine incentives because I took all my vaccines prior to all these incentives. I paid good money in 2020 for masks, cleaning supplies, PPE, canned food, TOILET PAPER when nobody knew what was going on. I am paying taxes and dealing with the high cost of food and just about everything else. And now, if I get SARS-CoV2, I will be in Tier 4? MAYBE at best TIEr 4

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This is just simple risk stratification. The unvaccinated are clearly at a higher risk of developing severe covid-19 (by a lot). When deciding how to allocate a drug with a relative risk reduction of 89%, why would you start with the group with the lowest absolute risk? When we rolled out the vaccines, we started with frontline healthcare, then elderly, then immunocompromised, then young and healthy. Not the other way around.