Lots of family doctors made >1.5 million $ in Canada. Equivalency in USA?

[MedicineZ0Z]

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Search the Star’s database of Ontario’s top-billing doctors

Database includes names and billing details provided by the Ministry of Health for almost 200 of the highest-billing physicians in the province.

www.thestar.com

This only looks at Ontario but I've seen consistency in lists released from other provinces.


Now lets say you setup shop in a decent suburban area in USA. Your patient population is middle to upper middle class. What can you expect to bill? What kind of overhead can you expect?

 

[deleted87716]

I can't read the article because it requires a subscription, but this has come up before. The "billings" you're referring to are gross charges, not revenue, and not physician income after expenses. I bill well in excess of $1M/year, but I don't take home anywhere near that amount.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I can't read the article because it requires a subscription, but this has come up before. The "billings" you're referring to are gross charges, not revenue, and not physician income after expenses. I bill well in excess of $1M/year, but I don't take home anywhere near that amount.

Overhead in Canada would be 15-30%, usually 20% for family medicine. In contrast, I hear ~50% thrown around in USA a lot.

 

[deleted87716]

Overhead in Canada would be 15-30%, usually 20% for family medicine. In contrast, I hear ~50% thrown around in USA a lot.

You need to read the old thread (I don't know how to find it - you can do your own homework). It's all there. Canada is definitely not a place to get rich doing FM.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

You need to read the old thread (I don't know how to find it - you can do your own homework). It's all there. Canada is definitely not a place to get rich doing FM.

That's entirely false. When a significant number bill mid to upper figures with 20% overhead, that's >400k of pre tax income. Some doing a lot more (im excluding outliers). Malpractice is dirt cheap. Then you have a large list of corporate tax benefits.

 

[deleted87716]

OK. 🙄

I see you were involved in that thread, too. So, I guess you're just trolling.

I am in Canada and why are family med docs making more than surgeons.

I live in a small Canadian city of about 45,000. Also, in my province, it is mandatory for all health professions to post their salaries online. And almost all the family med docs in my city are making between 300K - 600K. And the ones who own their own single practice are making more than a...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

OK. 🙄

I am in Canada and why are family med docs making more than surgeons.

I live in a small Canadian city of about 45,000. Also, in my province, it is mandatory for all health professions to post their salaries online. And almost all the family med docs in my city are making between 300K - 600K. And the ones who own their own single practice are making more than a...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Your own post said overhead is 60% in USA. It's 20% in Canada on average. And I believe there are far more corporate tax loopholes and benefits + relatively low business tax. Not to mention farrr lower malpractice.

Income state is very state dependent and will be equal-ish in many cases.

There's also the issue of drastically lower burden of charting and very easy billing.

 

[deleted87716]

Blah, blah, blah... we just went through this six months ago. I'm out.

 

[Hippocrates II]

Overhead in Canada would be 15-30%, usually 20% for family medicine. In contrast, I hear ~50% thrown around in USA a lot.

That's entirely false. When a significant number bill mid to upper figures with 20% overhead, that's >400k of pre tax income. Some doing a lot more (im excluding outliers). Malpractice is dirt cheap. Then you have a large list of corporate tax benefits.

I guess that's why all of these US docs are jumping ship and heading to Canada to practice. Oh, wait...

 

[septoplasty]

Not this thread again..

 

[Splenda88]

The key to making bank as a FM is to open 3-4 shops and staff them with MLP---profit.

If you can't beat them, join them.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

The key to making bank as a FM is to open 3-4 shops and staff them with MLP---profit.

If you can't beat them, join them.

And to hell with patients, right?

 

[Splenda88]

And to hell with patients, right?

Talk to legislatures that let them practice medicine...

 

[Gos81238ia]

Search the Star’s database of Ontario’s top-billing doctors

Database includes names and billing details provided by the Ministry of Health for almost 200 of the highest-billing physicians in the province.

www.thestar.com

This only looks at Ontario but I've seen consistency in lists released from other provinces.


Now lets say you setup shop in a decent suburban area in USA. Your patient population is middle to upper middle class. What can you expect to bill? What kind of overhead can you expect?

Two things about this -
1) Billing fraud. The optometrist billing 12 million a year is straight up billing fraudulently and will get dragged to court over that
2) Crappy patient care. Sure you can bill 1.5 million a year if you see 60-80 patients in urgent care a day and spend 3-5 mins with each

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Two things about this -
1) Billing fraud. The optometrist billing 12 million a year is straight up billing fraudulently and will get dragged to court over that
2) Crappy patient care. Sure you can bill 1.5 million a year if you see 60-80 patients in urgent care a day and spend 3-5 mins with each

I think the big money is in the capitation models rather than fee for service.

 

[smq123]

I think this topic has been beaten to death. Closing