Lots of high pass but no honors...

[AspiringOne]

I'm an MS1 and, at the risk of sounding like a gunner, this is very frustrating. I just can't seem to get an honors in a class.

We are in the biochem block right now, and I study equally hard for each exam, but on one exam I get a 90+ and the other I get an 80. I just can't wrap my head around it...the worst part is that I leave both of the exams feeling like I did well! I almost feel like studying more wouldn't help, because the exams are multiple choice and the difference between an honors and a high pass seems to come down to "luck of the draw" with the question bank and the tiny details you happen to remember...

Ah well. This was more of a rant than anything else. I know deep down that I just have to study harder. It's just so hard to regain motivation after one test mutilates your confidence. 🙁

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[MilkmanAl]

the worst part is that I leave both of the exams feeling like I did well!

That's probably because you did do well on both, just better on one than the other.

 

[monkeybutt]

I never got honors only straight high pass throughout med school. I'm applying to EM residency and never got asked about it once during my interview. It's not a big deal.

 

[thesauce]

I never got honors only straight high pass throughout med school. I'm applying to EM residency and never got asked about it once during my interview. It's not a big deal.

This isn't surprising considering EM isn't particularly competitive. If the OP applies for derm, it's going to come up.

 

[AspiringOne]

This isn't surprising considering EM isn't particularly competitive. If the OP applies for derm, it's going to come up.

I don't want to do derm, though I am considering some specialties like ortho and anesthesiology. Sigh, I'll just have to step it up.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Preclinical grades are not that likely to come up in any field because there is no standardization between schools and many are pass/fail.

If you learn the material well, this will be reflected on Step I. That's what matters.

 

[thesauce]

Preclinical grades are not that likely to come up in any field because there is no standardization between schools and many are pass/fail.

If you learn the material well, this will be reflected on Step I. That's what matters.

Agree with this for the most part. Preclinical grades only matter as far as how they affect your class rank/AOA status. Clinical grades will come up in the more competitive specialties.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Agree with that for the most part but clinical grades will be very important for all specialties.

 

[Deferoxamine]

I can relate to the OP.

Once you begin med school and start to realize you're one of those students who's always going to be on the HP/H borderline, your mind starts to go nuts.

Translate that to life on the wards... where everytime you make a mistake or don't smile or say something at the wrong time or get a few consecutive pimp questions wrong... you can't help but ask yourself: "Is that ONE thing going to cost me?"

I've only crushed the H cutoff once, maybe twice. The rest of the time I make it, I'm hanging on by the skin of my teeth.

 

[NTF]

I leave both of the exams feeling like I did well!

If you feel like you have a good grasp of the material that what's important (along with getting a passing grade).

If you made a graph of the effort required for pass to high pass to honors it'd be an exponential growth curve.
Now if you wanted to know the relative return on your effort from pass to high pass to honors all you have to do is turn that graph upside down. (Speaking of pre-clinical grades)

Don't sweat it. You're doing well.

 

[VoiceofReason]

may i suggest you stop worrying about your score and start worrying about how deeply/well you understand the important topics?

in-house exams tend to be poorly written, if you're studying from authoritative sources (e.g. costanzo, robbins) and doing qbanks from reputable sources (e.g. BRS) and doing well on them, then don't sweat your in house scores as long as you pass.

you'll be in better shape for the boards than people who only learn from the powerpoints and never crack a book.

 

[thesauce]

Agree with that for the most part but clinical grades will be very important for all specialties.

Then we don't agree at all. There are a number of specialties out there that will take you if you just barely pass everything (are you really going to argue this point?). These specialties don't have the luxury of attracting many of the top candidates with excellent clinical grades.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Then we don't agree at all. There are a number of specialties out there that will take you if you just barely pass everything (are you really going to argue this point?). These specialties don't have the luxury of attracting many of the top candidates with excellent clinical grades.

Well if your goal is just to match, then sure you can get by. But even within the "non-competitive" specialties there are good programs and bad. The good programs will still have the luxury of picking the candidates they want.

 

[thesauce]

Well if your goal is just to match, then sure you can get by. But even within the "non-competitive" specialties there are good programs and bad. The good programs will still have the luxury of picking the candidates they want.

Just matching is likely the goal of most applicants. I don't think there are too many "#1 program or bust" people our there (although I know at least 1). Obviously everyone would prefer to go to a good program. All clinical HP's and no honors will get you a top-tier FM residency. If you're shooting for the most competitive stuff, it probably won't get you a spot at all.

 

[MilkmanAl]

I dunno if I'd go that far, but your options would definitely be quite limited if you didn't have a Step 1 score around the specialty's average.

 

[AspiringOne]

Just matching is likely the goal of most applicants. I don't think there are too many "#1 program or bust" people our there (although I know at least 1). Obviously everyone would prefer to go to a good program. All HP's and no honors will get you a top-tier FM residency. If you're shooting for the most competitive stuff, it probably won't get you a spot at all.

Are you referring to pre-clinical or clinical grades here?

 

[thesauce]

Are you referring to pre-clinical or clinical grades here?

Sorry, clinical grades. Try not to sweat preclinical grades too much. The most important things to consider are:

1. Learn with the goal of doing well on step 1
2. Preclinical grades influence class rank/AOA so don't completely blow them off

As for clinical grades, they are important to honor for the competitive stuff (you mentioned ortho). But that's another ballgame.

 

[lord_jeebus]

I don't remember anyone at my med school who was content with "just matching." But perhaps our med schools are different in that respect. Even the FM applicants had strong preferences with regards to geography (eg. being close to family, or not being in Idaho) and which programs offered stronger training. Even at less competitive programs, program directors are ranking their applicants, and clinical grades are an important criterion for almost all of them.

 

[thesauce]

I don't remember anyone at my med school who was content with "just matching." But perhaps our med schools are different in that respect. Even the FM applicants had strong preferences with regards to geography (eg. being close to family, or not being in Idaho) and which programs offered stronger training. Even at less competitive programs, program directors are ranking their applicants, and clinical grades are an important criterion for almost all of them.

I'm really surprised that you never heard someone say "I just want to match."

We clearly have very different definitions for the word "important." I made the comment that clinical honors are more important for competitive specialties than non-competitive ones. For reasons I can't understand, you don't seem to agree.

Btw, I love Idaho.

 

[FlowRate]

Premed crashing your Allo thread... this thread reminds me of why I really really really want to end up at a school that is strictly P/F preclnical. I don't know if my sanity could handle another 2 years of intense book learning with the goal of acing a professor, instead of the goal being to learn for clinicals/step I.

Good luck though, I know exactly how you feel when you're in a class and can't quite tip the top of the curve! You can do it =)

 

[VoiceofReason]

Premed crashing your Allo thread... this thread reminds me of why I really really really want to end up at a school that is strictly P/F preclnical. I don't know if my sanity could handle another 2 years of intense book learning with the goal of acing a professor, instead of the goal being to learn for clinicals/step I.

Good luck though, I know exactly how you feel when you're in a class and can't quite tip the top of the curve! You can do it =)

the goal is learning even at schools that have honors/high pass/pass, you don't need preclinical grades they are totally overshadowed by step 1 whether you honor or pass

the only way to get honors is to try to ace the professor. you'll never get honors and sometimes not even high pass if you're focused on learning for deep understanding rather than memorizing powerpoints. thats why step 1 is more important, as it should be.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I'm really surprised that you never heard someone say "I just want to match."

People say that all the time. I say that all the time, actually. That is a reflection of the anxiety inherent in the match process. It doesn't mean that's people's only goal - I will be pretty bummed out if I match at the #14 program on my list even though I would have still "just matched"

We clearly have very different definitions for the word "important." I made the comment that clinical honors are more important for competitive specialties than non-competitive ones. For reasons I can't understand, you don't seem to agree.

The disagreement is that I (and I think the others) think you underestimated their importance even for non-competitive specialties. Yes - if you're going into ortho or derm it is nearly essential that you have a transcript full of honors. But even in the non-competitive fields you are going to be evaluated on your grades, and getting honors (especially in that field) will greatly strengthen your application and help you get the program you want.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Premed crashing your Allo thread... this thread reminds me of why I really really really want to end up at a school that is strictly P/F preclnical. I don't know if my sanity could handle another 2 years of intense book learning with the goal of acing a professor, instead of the goal being to learn for clinicals/step I.

Good luck though, I know exactly how you feel when you're in a class and can't quite tip the top of the curve! You can do it =)

meh...it ends up really not mattering.

You'll be under plenty of pressure even in the so-called "pass fail" models (I say so-called because a lot of them still keep track of you for class ranks and AOA). You will still be doing intense book learning, and memorizing all the minute details, because if you don't you probably won't pass.

 

[FlowRate]

the goal is learning even at schools that have honors/high pass/pass, you don't need preclinical grades they are totally overshadowed by step 1 whether you honor or pass

the only way to get honors is to try to ace the professor. you'll never get honors and sometimes not even high pass if you're focused on learning for deep understanding rather than memorizing powerpoints. thats why step 1 is more important, as it should be.

The goal of a differentiated grading system beyond P/F seems to me patently against the goal of simply learning. This does not mean that the goal of a student could not be just learning, but it seems like that student would not be acting in his best interest for a really selective residency, were he interested in one.

meh...it ends up really not mattering.

You'll be under plenty of pressure even in the so-called "pass fail" models (I say so-called because a lot of them still keep track of you for class ranks and AOA). You will still be doing intense book learning, and memorizing all the minute details, because if you don't you probably won't pass.

Granted =)

Bummer =(

 

[MilkmanAl]

You really have to watch out for the internally-ranked pass/fail model. You think competition in a graded curriculum is bad? Try the competition at a school where every tenth of a point can matter.

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

When you suddenly realize that no matter what you do, you're pretty much out of the running for AOA, it takes a lot of pressure off. Even though I'm at a school with H/HP/P/M/F, those Hs versus HPs don't mean a hill of beans if you're only sitting at the 55th percentile in the class.

 

[phospho]

Preclinical grades only matter as far as how they affect your class rank/AOA status. Clinical

In most cases, the amount of credit hours you take in your last two years will blow the first two years out of the water. That's why class rank is pointless in the first two years.

As far as AOA goes, a lot of schools, including mine, don't even consider you until you've finished your third year.

If I ever get a high pass, I will beat myself on the head for not having used that extra study time for drinking instead.

 

[ChimpanzeeMinky]

In most cases, the amount of credit hours you take in your last two years will blow the first two years out of the water. That's why class rank is pointless in the first two years.

As far as AOA goes, a lot of schools, including mine, don't even consider you until you've finished your third year.

If I ever get a high pass, I will beat myself on the head for not having used that extra study time for drinking instead.

I wasn't aware of a large disparity between credit hours between years. I wonder if that's true here.

We are considered for junior AOA after second year, and it is based on preclinical grades (75%) and step 1 (25%). Senior AOA is based on 3rd year grades and ECs, including leadership and research. Both require you to be in the top 25% of the class.

 

[phospho]

I wasn't aware of a large disparity between credit hours between years. I wonder if that's true here.

We are considered for junior AOA after second year, and it is based on preclinical grades (75%) and step 1 (25%). Senior AOA is based on 3rd year grades and ECs, including leadership and research. Both require you to be in the top 25% of the class.

at my school:

m1 = 45 hrs
m2 = 42 hrs
m3 = 96 hrs
m4 = 64 hrs

Quarter system btw. Note how m3 is more than the first two years combined

 

[WeenieRoast]

Preclinical grades are not that likely to come up in any field because there is no standardization between schools and many are pass/fail.

If you learn the material well, this will be reflected on Step I. That's what matters.

As someone who has matched into a competitive specialty, I agree 100% with this statement. PDs couldn't really care less and the great equalizer is the USMLE and how well you audition during 4th since you'll basically be married to a program for at least 4-5 years. You'll be fine and don't sweat the small stuff. 🙂

 

[thesauce]

at my school:

m1 = 45 hrs
m2 = 42 hrs
m3 = 96 hrs
m4 = 64 hrs

Quarter system btw. Note how m3 is more than the first two years combined

No kidding? Good lord.

Still, m1+m2~m3, so I wouldn't blow it off completely.

 

[dude1344]

Just wanted to comment on how some professor's exam questions are the WORST things you have every seen.

"blah blah blah blah blah?"

A
B
C
AB
AC
ABC

wtf. Someone tell me board questions aren't structured like this. It was like the MCAT roman numeral questions all over again.

 

[NTF]

at my school:

m1 = 45 hrs
m2 = 42 hrs
m3 = 96 hrs
m4 = 64 hrs

Quarter system btw. Note how m3 is more than the first two years combined

Pretty similar to my school too. M3 grades are weighted double.

 

[engineeredout]

Completely understand how you're feeling. Our grades are out of 100, with 70 = C, 80 = B, 90 = A (no +/-). I don't think I've gotten any grade below an 88, but my gpa is still a 3.47, meaning I have more B credits than A credits.

Don't really have anything to say that can help, just letting ya know you're not the only one out there. I've had grades with literally one test question making the difference between a 4.0 and 3.0. Frustrating to say the least

 

[penguin24]

at my school:

m1 = 45 hrs
m2 = 42 hrs
m3 = 96 hrs
m4 = 64 hrs

Quarter system btw. Note how m3 is more than the first two years combined

On my Dean's letter used to apply to residency, there is one sentence that describes my M1/M2 years. Then there are 6 full length paragraphs for each of my M3 clerkships that go into detail of my attending comments on my performance. So yeah, M3 is way more impt than M1/M2 in terms of the grades themselves. M1/M2 are only impt in the sense that Step 1 is based on them.

 

[deleted263296]

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