Lots of loaded questions, council needed

[FunctionalDoc]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Hi All,

This post is full of loaded questions. I hope some of you have the time to help me out.
I'm a non traditional student. I have a BS in network engineering. I decided to change careers and took premed classes 1 at a time. Took me about 3.5 years but I finished premed with a reasonable GPA (3.83) all while working full time and raising a small child. Fast forward to today.

Rather than taking the MCAT right when I was done with classes, I decided to take a break. I was burnt out. I'm also very depressed and started new therapy for cPTSD. It's going well, but it's a process that takes a while. If I want to apply for med school in 2021 I absolutely need to start studying ASAP. I already started, but then stopped for 3 weeks. My depression and my mood while going through therapy is very up and down and I'm not able to focus at all. It's seeming like studying right now is near impossible.

Should I wait a whole additional year before taking the MCAT so I can get my life in order? Just seems crazy that I would push this off again, but I'm just not sure if I can do it right now. I don't know how bad this looks either, waiting more than 1 year.

Another question that has been burning in my mind, is this even the right path for me? I want to practice functional medicine and specialize in chronic and hard to treat illnesses. I don't agree with the current medical system as it is for the treatment of chronic illnesses, the "pill for an ill" paradigm. If I go through traditional training am I just going to be force fed pharma education and want to pull my hair out? Should I just take a different path like ND, PA, NP? I plan on going through Chris Kresser's ADAPT training, and Mark Hyman is basically my hero.

I have a lot to think about right now. Hoping you can be a sounding board for me. Thank you

 

[acstylin]

Have you been doing EC’s? Let me possibly recommend an idea for an EC. If you have PTSD, maybe you can get involved with a PTSD support group. This would help you, help others, and demonstrate to adcoms that you are resilient and passionate about helping others while recognizing your own struggles. I’m a notrad with kids and I will tell you that med school is as hard as everyone says it is- even harder for us with kids. I miss a lot of family activities and dinners. I feel like I work twice as hard to only land in the middle of the pack. My advice, make ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY WITHOUT A DOUBT NO ROOM FOR SECOND GUESSES sure that you want to do this. You will question your decision once you’re in. You will suffer from imposter’s syndrome. We all do, especially nontrads. If you’re not firm in your resolve, you may regret it.
As far as the MCAT goes, I wouldn’t study for a year. It leaves too much room for forgetting. I’d do 6 months tops. The first three months of review could be light, 2-3 hours per day on material review. The next two months intense review for 6 hours per day with occasional longer days where you take practice tests. The last month should be a full time job. I did 8-10 (usually 10) hours per day, 6 days per week of intense study and practice. It sucked! But my score was good enough to get in so it was worth it. Best of luck!

 

[DocJanItor]

Hi All,

This post is full of loaded questions. I hope some of you have the time to help me out.
I'm a non traditional student. I have a BS in network engineering. I decided to change careers and took premed classes 1 at a time. Took me about 3.5 years but I finished premed with a reasonable GPA (3.83) all while working full time and raising a small child. Fast forward to today.

Rather than taking the MCAT right when I was done with classes, I decided to take a break. I was burnt out. I'm also very depressed and started new therapy for cPTSD. It's going well, but it's a process that takes a while. If I want to apply for med school in 2021 I absolutely need to start studying ASAP. I already started, but then stopped for 3 weeks. My depression and my mood while going through therapy is very up and down and I'm not able to focus at all. It's seeming like studying right now is near impossible.

Should I wait a whole additional year before taking the MCAT so I can get my life in order? Just seems crazy that I would push this off again, but I'm just not sure if I can do it right now. I don't know how bad this looks either, waiting more than 1 year.

Another question that has been burning in my mind, is this even the right path for me? I want to practice functional medicine and specialize in chronic and hard to treat illnesses. I don't agree with the current medical system as it is for the treatment of chronic illnesses, the "pill for an ill" paradigm. If I go through traditional training am I just going to be force fed pharma education and want to pull my hair out? Should I just take a different path like ND, PA, NP? I plan on going through Chris Kresser's ADAPT training, and Mark Hyman is basically my hero.

I have a lot to think about right now. Hoping you can be a sounding board for me. Thank you

First off, if you're dealing with any mental illness then I would wait. Medical school is a huge amount of pressure for everyone; those already facing challenges and questioning their abilities almost invariably fail courses and sometimes fail out.

Second, your view of the current medical system for chronic illnesses is simplistic and misinformed at best. Many chronic illnesses can only be symptomatically managed and have no cure. I don't know who Mark Hyman is but unless he's got published and peer reviewed research papers saying his methods have superior outcomes, I'd be skeptical of his claims. It's easy to criticize medicine when you haven't actually learned it yet. If you're already aligned against current practices then perhaps becoming a doctor isn't the best idea for you.

 

[FunctionalDoc]

First off, if you're dealing with any mental illness then I would wait. Medical school is a huge amount of pressure for everyone; those already facing challenges and questioning their abilities almost invariably fail courses and sometimes fail out.

Second, your view of the current medical system for chronic illnesses is simplistic and misinformed at best. Many chronic illnesses can only be symptomatically managed and have no cure. I don't know who Mark Hyman is but unless he's got published and peer reviewed research papers saying his methods have superior outcomes, I'd be skeptical of his claims. It's easy to criticize medicine when you haven't actually learned it yet. If you're already aligned against current practices then perhaps becoming a doctor isn't the best idea for you.

Thanks. This makes sense.

And yes, but how patients are symptomatically managed makes a big difference. And remission is possible for many "lifelong" illnesses. I've seen it first hand. Not to mention everything that is often missed, misdiagnosed, mistreated because doctors are too busy punching in insurance codes to hand out a pill and to just mask symptoms of bigger issues. That's the system. One I'd like to have a hand in changing.

As for Mark, he's working on getting studies done:

The impact of functional medicine on patient-reported outcomes in inflammatory arthritis: A retrospective study

Background Despite treatment advances for inflammatory arthritis, a significant amount of patients fail to achieve remission. Other modifiable factors such as diet, physical activity and environmental exposures may be an important area of focus to help patients achieve disease remission and...

journals.plos.org

Have you been doing EC’s? Let me possibly recommend an idea for an EC. If you have PTSD, maybe you can get involved with a PTSD support group. This would help you, help others, and demonstrate to adcoms that you are resilient and passionate about helping others while recognizing your own struggles. I’m a notrad with kids and I will tell you that med school is as hard as everyone says it is- even harder for us with kids. I miss a lot of family activities and dinners. I feel like I work twice as hard to only land in the middle of the pack. My advice, make ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY WITHOUT A DOUBT NO ROOM FOR SECOND GUESSES sure that you want to do this. You will question your decision once you’re in. You will suffer from imposter’s syndrome. We all do, especially nontrads. If you’re not firm in your resolve, you may regret it.
As far as the MCAT goes, I wouldn’t study for a year. It leaves too much room for forgetting. I’d do 6 months tops. The first three months of review could be light, 2-3 hours per day on material review. The next two months intense review for 6 hours per day with occasional longer days where you take practice tests. The last month should be a full time job. I did 8-10 (usually 10) hours per day, 6 days per week of intense study and practice. It sucked! But my score was good enough to get in so it was worth it. Best of luck!

Hmm, not a bad idea my friend.

 

[Dral]

I'm not sure med school will be the right thing for you. You already sound a bit jaded. That will be amplified the further along you get. While physicians, even in 2020, can have some practice autonomy, we still fit into a lot of certain paradigms. Fee for service. If you spend an hour or two hours working with a patient to manage them, you will not fit that paradigm working for many people other than a few academic centers.

However, look into public health and preventive medicine residences. I'm admittedly ignorant when it comes to functional medicine, but maybe you will find something there that aligns with your goals.

Of course, there is always nailing up your own shingle...then you can practice however you please.

I would echo others...don't take MCAT until you are in tip top shape.

 

[operaman]

Echoing the others - would strongly consider waiting. Medical school and residency are difficult even when things are good; they can be merciless on people without strong coping skills. Your MCAT studying for instance - if you took 3 weeks off from study as an MS1 you would be at high risk of failure which is not exactly good for an already stressful situation. School in particular will punish procrastination. This forum is littered with posts about someone being dismissed from school because they had some mental health issues that were poorly controlled.

As for whether you should do it at all, that’s a tough call. I think you’d be wise to shadow more. Your perception of medicine is wildly inaccurate which you would know if you’d spent much time around docs in the trenches. The only time I spend any time punching in insurance codes is when I did a weird procedure and don’t know how to bill it. 99% of the time I’ll spend 5-10 minutes total on coding for a full day of clinic. It’s like 2-3 clicks per patient. So spend a little time around different docs in different settings to get a real feel for what the day to day looks like.

Plenty of fields within medicine fit your interests though. Physiatry in particular seems to combine the functional and the medical/procedural aspects. Many of the surgical fields fit too. We probably share your aversion to pharmaceutical treatments and prefer a nice cold steel remedy!

 

[deleted367183]

This is about to be the harshest comment I've ever made on SDN! But I really don't mean it that way.

I'm just a resident, but it's my impression that there is a lot of latitude to choose your own practice type once you're out of training. And of course you can choose to specialize in whatever you want.

You'll find a lot of people sympathetic to your views about over-reliance on Rx and limited time with patients. Holistic approach, all that. BUT if you go in determined to tear down the medical establishment before you've even entered the medical establishment, you will make a lot of enemies.

More generally, medicine is FULL of some of the most establishment people you will ever hope to meet. What I would call Ivy League tools, except outside the Ivy League. There are definitely exceptions, but think about with whom you want to spend your career.

But it's the mental health issues that are the killer. I say this as someone who took a semester of med school off for depression. My administration was as supportive as it gets. Which is to say, they were reasonably friendly, but really just wanted to know when I would be stable and back to work. You do NOT want to go in there with anything less than rock solid stable mental health. Learn from my mistakes!

 

[Dave1980]

As an aside, I'm not an airline pilot but I strongly disagree with the way commercial airline pilots fly. It's all about autopilot! My hero is Sir Herbert Kessler who wrote a book about flying without autopilot and how it makes for a much smoother ride.

 

[redmustardseed]

Hi All,

This post is full of loaded questions. I hope some of you have the time to help me out.
I'm a non traditional student. I have a BS in network engineering. I decided to change careers and took premed classes 1 at a time. Took me about 3.5 years but I finished premed with a reasonable GPA (3.83) all while working full time and raising a small child. Fast forward to today.

Rather than taking the MCAT right when I was done with classes, I decided to take a break. I was burnt out. I'm also very depressed and started new therapy for cPTSD. It's going well, but it's a process that takes a while. If I want to apply for med school in 2021 I absolutely need to start studying ASAP. I already started, but then stopped for 3 weeks. My depression and my mood while going through therapy is very up and down and I'm not able to focus at all. It's seeming like studying right now is near impossible.

Should I wait a whole additional year before taking the MCAT so I can get my life in order? Just seems crazy that I would push this off again, but I'm just not sure if I can do it right now. I don't know how bad this looks either, waiting more than 1 year.

Another question that has been burning in my mind, is this even the right path for me? I want to practice functional medicine and specialize in chronic and hard to treat illnesses. I don't agree with the current medical system as it is for the treatment of chronic illnesses, the "pill for an ill" paradigm. If I go through traditional training am I just going to be force fed pharma education and want to pull my hair out? Should I just take a different path like ND, PA, NP? I plan on going through Chris Kresser's ADAPT training, and Mark Hyman is basically my hero.

I have a lot to think about right now. Hoping you can be a sounding board for me. Thank you

Hi FunctionalDoc,

I doubt you'll get many knowledgeable replies about functional medicine on SDN. A lot of opinions sure, but not from people who've really studied or experienced functional medicine other than "the patient i had who..."

As an APRN who has studied functional med for years, it can be an amazing approach for chronic issues, sometimes. Requires a really sharp clinician and a very dedicated patient willing to make a lot of changes that most patients aren't willing to do. Most MDs who practice it have an integrative approach where they rely on prescribing as well, but often less so than in conventional practice. Even NDs sometimes prescribe or refer to those who can while they work from the functional med approach. It is a lot of work to become competent at functional medicine, but can be a wonderful career!

I absolutely support the idea that you work on your mental health first. Taking MCATs or going into med school without feeling at the top of your mental/emotional game is not a good strategy for success.

As for Mark Hyman being your hero, he is inspiring, has a big name, and a very public face in functional medicine, so it's fine to hold him as your hero, but there are others who aren't famous and who have been more in the trenches in integrative practice of mental health for decades. I am in my 2nd year in the Integrative Psychiatry Institute training (now everyone will think I'm a PMHNP, which I'm not) and the depth of knowledge and experience of many of the psychiatrists and primary care docs teaching there goes well beyond Mark Hyman and drills deep down into the nuts and bolts of how to not just inspire, but truly help motivated patients with complex mental health issues, mostly using a combination of various cutting edge forms of therapy/neuroscience techniques, prescribing, and functional medicine approaches of nutrient/gut/hormone testing to inform nutrition, lifestyle and nutraceutical approaches that are the heart of functional medicine practice.

I expect there are more functional med aspiring students at DO than MD schools. There is also Aviva Romm, who attended Yale School of Medicine. Once you are ready, you might also look for schools that host an integrative medicine clinical rotation, residency or degree program to add onto med school There are very few, but they do exist. I think either Georgetown or GWU has a program, but outside of the med school. There are definitely MD/DO students who are fxn med aspiring, but I doubt they talk about this much within their programs.

 

[chicandtoughness]

Wait a year. I cannot stress this enough. I have fallen into the "but I want to get started ASAP" trap way too many times in my career, for far less stressful paths. I started my masters program (to be a mental health clinician) with an active eating disorder and major depressive disorder that had me literally lying in my bed for weeks on end. I don't mean "I stayed inside and watched Netflix and stress ate" depression; I meant I was either sitting on the toilet or horizontal in bed for 2 weeks. I told myself at the beginning that I could power through and working towards a masters meant there was a light at the end of the tunnel. Nope, it backfired. I left my program and didn't go back to finish for 2 years so I could get my life in order. I made the same mistake early when I was starting premed classes and got 3 C's. Not what a post-bac is for. If you're already stressed now, you're going to fizzle and burn out.

We lose way too many great minds every year. Make sure you're stable before you apply. I say this as someone who was planning to apply in May 2021 but after a few months of depression creeping back up, have decided to wait another year. Med school will be there in a year, I promise.

 

[deleted803986]

I agree with the advice above, wait until you feel ready. I, too, have pushed myself to "do it all now!" and it has never gone well. I am saying this as someone who finished a post bacc three years ago and absolutely flopped at my first MCAT attempt. I work full time as a social worker and have this whole time. I think it is really important to remind yourself that you are not taking a year off--you are raising a family, working, and dealing with mental health issues. I think we non-trads tend to categorize anything that is not taking the mcat and applying as "taking a year off" when in fact we are not "off" at all.

 

[Moko]

I sympathize and share frustration about our current medical system and its prescription habits, but let's make one thing clear: naturopathic "doctors" should not be discussed in the same sentence (as in the OP) as if they are colleagues to actual medical providers such as MDs, DOs, NPs, and PAs (regardless of one's views about autonomy of the latter fields). One is based in evidence and has been shown to improve morbidity and mortality, the other is based in unproven and disproven practices that sound nice but at best can only be described as pseudoscience (and at worst, fraud). I would also caution against the use of the term 'functional medicine' if your goal is to become a medical provider, and to not buy into their sales pitch. As far as I can tell, they engage in some practices that have been deemed harmful, non-efficacious and appear to be the latest permutations of nice-sounding but unproven 'alternative techniques'. Wanting to spend more time with patients and to address the root cause of a patient's problem is simply good medicine and is what we as clinicians aspire to (but admittedly often fall short due to various systematic issues). Wanting to focus on nutrition, weight loss, stress management, and non-pharmacologic therapies, etc is similarly simply good medicine. I would caution anyone against thinking these best practices are somehow inconsistent with modern medicine and unique to 'functional medicine'. We as medical providers need to protect patients against those seeking to equate unproven practices as equal alternatives to evidence-based medicine. Completely shameful what occurs in the community. Just my thoughts.

And I echo everything else that's been said about your mental health.