Lottery for placing DOs into third year sites

[FrogE7]

---

Members do not see this ad.

I am curious as to how different schools decide on where to place their many students into third year sites. What kind of lottery system do you have? Is it computerized or is there a lot of open discussion and communication between classmates? Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[medhacker]

We are assigned to 12 groups and are entered into a lottery system. We will be discussing the details in about 7 days.

How is it at your place?

 

[JonnyG]

We are assigned to 12 groups and are entered into a lottery system. We will be discussing the details in about 7 days.

How is it at your place?

each group is given the same hospital sites (some exceptions) for each specialty but at different months of the year. Then each smaller group decides how they will choose who goes to which site. It ends up being very orderly.

 

[medhacker]

each group is given the same hospital sites (some exceptions) for each specialty but at different months of the year. Then each smaller group decides how they will choose who goes to which site. It ends up being very orderly.

JonnyG,

When you say smaller groups you mean J groups get subdivided?

 

[osli]

KCUMB:

Students are provided a list of core sites... a long list, with sites spread all over the country. Each student submits a form indicating their first, second, and third choice.

A computer algorithm produces dozens of attempts at placing the most students into their top choice, second choice, etc. Our student government is provided a report that simply indicates for each run of the algorithm how many received first, second, and third choices, devoid of names of students or core sites. There are always a couple that don't get matched in each run. The government votes on which run to retain (based on whether they want more first choices, or less unmatched, or whatever). After a run is identified students are notified where they are going. A second round match places the couple of students unmatched in the first round.

All DO/MBA students are automatically matched into Kansas City rotations, as they must be in the area for MBA classes in their 3rd year.

There is a "special consideration" process before the match in which a student can request to be placed at a particular site due to extenuating circumstances, but I've yet to hear of any such circumstances that are acceptably extenuating. Perhaps a significantly ill family member where they are the principal caretaker? Not sure.

 

[drchick331]

At MSUCOM, we have a "lottery system" - it is a computer system where we put our first choice for a base hospital. (FYI, we rotate through most primary care rotations, surgery, medicine, ob/gyn, and ER at our base hospital.) This system allows you to see how many people have selected each hospital but not who.

We get about 3 months to put in our top choice - the second day of second year at noon the system closes. Any students that picked hospitals that are over (i.e., 6 students pick a hospital with 5 spaces) must show up for the second lottery that evening. This means that the program coordinator puts your name in a hat (literally) and whoever is not picked loses that hospital slot.

After all hospitals that are overselected are lotteried (if that is a word 😉), those that did not get their first choice are allowed to select from any of the hospitals that are not yet full (they consider this the "second choice" lottery but the hospitals left over are more like the 10th or 12th choice on anyone's list). For some students, they may not get their second choice and have to move to a third choice. The major problem is that our base hospital system is state-wide and many students end up in geographic regions far from where they would like. After the lottery process, students are given about a week to trade hospitals - there has been some controversy with this stage since some students have offered large amounts of money which seems a bit unethical to the administration.

I know that the nearby allopathic school has a completely computer-based lottery where you can select up to 5 alternate hospitals for each rotation. The algorithm it uses tries to ensure that as many students as possible get their first or second choice for each rotation - to me, this seems a more fair option than the antiquated system employed by MSUCOM.

 

[ShyRem]

UNE

Everyone gets a list of core sites. On lottery day, there are tables for each site and you go to the table you want for your site. From each site there are a couple of spots sent to "reserve". If there are exactly as many people as slots (or fewer people), then everyone there gets that site. If there are more people, then you draw numbers to see who gets the slot (rather like a bingo draw). Everyone who doesn't get the slot goes to the reserve slots and does another draw. Then you draw for choosing your track within each site. Most people get what they want.

Sounds complicated, but it's over in a couple of hours. You are allowed to trade afterwards.

 

[PeeWee137]

nycom

its computerized. we have 300 people to place. everyone gets a list of what hospitals offer what rotations. we have hospitals all over long island, nyc, NJ, CT, philly and upstate as far as buffalo. we have to rank all of them online, sometimes there are 20 hospitals for one rotation. then we have the "choice of choice" - if we know for sure we want to do surgery at manhasset, we list that and they try really hard to match that for everyone. (although it depends on the popularity of the rotation, some people dont even get that). theres also the option of saying you want your psych rotation in the first slot, then they will try to match the time period but you may not get your first choice hospital. we also have regional programs at certain hospitals, where you apply and interview to the hospitals and if chosen you do all your 3rd year core rotations there. those are pretty competitive. alot of people do it for location, some people are from new jersey or brooklyn and would rather not drive to suffolk county or connecticut every day.
supposedly some of the fellows get rotation priority, but that is unclear, i know some who got all their #1s and some who didnt get any.
and i think it helps to log into the system early - they say it doesnt matter but the people i know who did it early got more of their top 5 rotations (including myself) than the people who did it last minute. it cant hurt right?

 

[scpod]

They are developing a computer system at Braddenton, but there are serious doubts as to whether or not it will be ready for use this year. It really is easier if you are planning on staying in Florida or the southeast because Bradenton has first pick of those sites. If you want to go up north then you'll have to wait until Erie has made their choices (we share those sites with them).

The class is divided into 13 groups (for 12 four-week rotations and one four-week vacation). Before the summer of your first year you fill out a survey asking you to pick either three geographical places where you want to go or what vacation period that you want. Over the summer you are divided into groups based on that criteria. For instance, if 10 people wanted to go to Texas, then they would all be put into different groups. That way, there is nobody else in your group that wants to go there and you have no competition for the available slots.

You are given lists of the core rotation sites and how many slots are available in each. Then, each group works out what they want to do for each rotation. Each person writes down three choices fro each rotation. You are competing within your group for spots. If you can't work it out then your names go into a hat and the clinical dean draws for who gets the spot. It really only gets bad in cases like Orlando. Lots of people want to go to Orlando but there aren't enough spots there for everyone. For example, St. Pete General has 12 IM slots per rotation but Orlando has only 1. So....St. Pete has 156 total slots during the year and Orlando has 13.

 

[DrMom]

Here's how OSUCOM did it when I was a student (haven't heard of any changes):

There are two training sites with 3 groupings of students at each site. Everyone puts in for their first choice. Any grouping that is overfilled goes to lottery with a literal name-drawing for placement. The folks who are left over after that grouping is filled via name-drawing get to go to one of the open groupings. Most everyone gets their first choice.

 

[GreenShirt]

Our clinical site is pre-arranged at the time of acceptance, which is pretty nice b/c we don't have to wonder where we'll end up.

 

[Toohotinvegas33]

Our clinical site is pre-arranged at the time of acceptance, which is pretty nice b/c we don't have to wonder where we'll end up.

Good thing we have telepathy. Or else we dont know what school you go to. 🙄

 

[misery]

NSU-COM is much the same as KCUMB.

We have a list given to the students about a month before. Then we submit our rank order list (ROL). The computer then assigns each student in the class a number randomly. Then who ever gets randomly assigned the number one automatically gets their first choice, but also the person that gets assigned the last number, say 200, is guaranteed to get their last choice. This they say makes everyone get their best choice, which I agree statistically is true. But when your like me and get nearly the last spot it doesn't exactly seem fair. Esp when your near the top of your class. They say they will make it up to you when scheduling your 4th year required ER and Rural Rotations, but that is not true.

We've tried to as a student body to get GPA counted into the numbering system, but as you can figure Half the class is for it and half against, and you can guess where those individuals stand within the class.

In hind sight. I wouldn't go anywhere that didn't one have great core sights in totality. Some of ours are awesome, some are only good in certain areas. If you have the opportunity to go somewhere that has an actual hospital thats your best bet.

 

[cyclohexanol]

nycom

its computerized. we have 300 people to place. everyone gets a list of what hospitals offer what rotations. we have hospitals all over long island, nyc, NJ, CT, philly and upstate as far as buffalo. we have to rank all of them online, sometimes there are 20 hospitals for one rotation. then we have the "choice of choice" - if we know for sure we want to do surgery at manhasset, we list that and they try really hard to match that for everyone. (although it depends on the popularity of the rotation, some people dont even get that). theres also the option of saying you want your psych rotation in the first slot, then they will try to match the time period but you may not get your first choice hospital. we also have regional programs at certain hospitals, where you apply and interview to the hospitals and if chosen you do all your 3rd year core rotations there. those are pretty competitive. alot of people do it for location, some people are from new jersey or brooklyn and would rather not drive to suffolk county or connecticut every day.
supposedly some of the fellows get rotation priority, but that is unclear, i know some who got all their #1s and some who didnt get any.
and i think it helps to log into the system early - they say it doesnt matter but the people i know who did it early got more of their top 5 rotations (including myself) than the people who did it last minute. it cant hurt right?

COMP is similar except they have pre-set permutations of rotation sites/order that get ranked and computer matched. So you find the rotation tracks that fit you the best and rank those highest.

 

[EEL08]

I have been wondering about this because both my husband and I are applying. Obviously we need to go to the same area for rotations but I wasn't sure how that would work with the lottery. Is this something that would be okay to ask during an interview?

 

[osli]

KCUMB does allow a couples match option. It sets a flag in the computer algorithm which forces couples to match to the same site in all permutations. It could pull one person ahead to their preferred site, or pull the other back to being unmatched. Choosing "couples" can be done for spouses, significant others, or just two friends wanting to go to the same place. IT claims that statistically it is neither an advantage or disadvantage in getting your site preference, but of course I can't take a look at the algorithms and check for myself.

 

[EEL08]

KCUMB does allow a couples match option. It sets a flag in the computer algorithm which forces couples to match to the same site in all permutations. It could pull one person ahead to their preferred site, or pull the other back to being unmatched. Choosing "couples" can be done for spouses, significant others, or just two friends wanting to go to the same place. IT claims that statistically it is neither an advantage or disadvantage in getting your site preference, but of course I can't take a look at the algorithms and check for myself.

Wow that's great! I would much rather go to a lesser desired rotation site with my husband than a top choice without my husband. These are the kind of things that are hard to find out from the websites. Thank you!

 

[RockfordWF]

there are schools that do most of their rotations in the school's primary teaching site, thus not making it a big deal

it just depends on where you go