Loupes stories?

[aphistis]

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I've got two sets of loupes coming in the mail in the next week or so--two 2.5x's, from Surgitel and Designs for Vision. I'll give them both a test drive, but initially I'm thinking I'll end up sending the DFV's back.

Is anybody else out there getting loupes this semester? What company'd you go with? What power? How much? Let's hear what you've got 😀

 

[Rob2005]

Last Spring I got Iurgitel 2.5X through the lenses for $700. I was torn btw 2.5 and 3.0, but I heard that you kill yourself scrutinizing over the smallest details with the 3.0's. The Surgitels are comfy, light, and I can't imagine cutting a prep without them. I guess we'll see how they work on a live patient in the near future.

Rob
U of MN
Class of '05

 

[ItsGavinC]

Everybody in my class got Surgitel 2.5s, as they were included in the tuition fees that we all paid.

They should be arriving in a week or so, I'll see how much I like them then.

 

[aphistis]

Rob,

That's the impression I got from people. I wanted to get some 3 or 3.5's, but people said to stick with the 2.5's. I liked Orascoptic and DFV, but the Surgitels seemed the best based on the rep samples (through a stroke of luck, they're the cheapest too, at $645). I liked the TTLs better, so I ordered some contacts so I could just use the no-Rx lenses, and not have to worry about getting my loupes reground every year as my eyes steadily worsen throughout dental school 😉

Anybody have experience with flip-ups?

 

[UBTom]

Sure do. I got a pair of Orascopic 2.5x flip-ups. Very handy. I like having the option of working with or without the lenses as the situation demands. The ability to flip-up is also useful to prevent "tunnel vision"-- Sometimes I would lose orientation seeing just such a small part of the field; I can reorient instantly by flipping up, reposition, then flip down, and continue on.

My sister has been blessed with better vision than me... She has never needed loupes. 😛

 

[anamod]

DFV ttl 3.5x they are great I think they set me back 850. 2.5x just did not seem like it was enough

 

[Jazzman6]

Loupes??? Don't waste your money. Learn how to work without them. What's going to happen if you don't have them handy?

Ehhh....sorry sir, I can't do your filling today, because I dont have my special glasses...

 

[aphistis]

Originally posted by Jazzman6
Loupes??? Don't waste your money. Learn how to work without them. What's going to happen if you don't have them handy?

Ehhh....sorry sir, I can't do your filling today, because I dont have my special glasses...

I'd much rather drop $700 for loupes now than $7000 in chiropractic fees later. Second, your argument is absurd. Where is my equipment going to disappear to? You could as easily say "Sorry, sir, I can't do your fillings today because I don't have my amalgamator." Sure, that'd be accurate, but where the hell would it disappear to? 😉

 

[c132]

He is right in a sense you know. I would not try and use them unless you really need them. Take a crown prep, to do and occlusal reduction and the functional cusp reduction and facial and lingual wall reduction you wouldn't need any magnification, however on the mesial and distal if its bordering a tooth, then mag is good so you don't hit the adjacent tooth, and then to chamfer margins I use my magnification because the margins are so critical in a crown!

Bill, He is right though about not having your loops, I have seen many people forget them because they have worn them out, trust me you get used to having glasses on top of your head, and I have seen many peoples break, usually the band or the glasses, not the loupes themselves. You don't usually wear any other piece of equipment, esp not an amalgamator.

So in other words, he is right in that you should be able to do your preps without loupes, but they are a great tool and in a few cases, can help a lot. Just don't depend on them for everything, or it will bite you in the ass later.


BTW, I have microsurgery 3.5x wide field loupes, great loupes, but a slight bit on the heavy side for my taste. I just got these, I had orascoptic and did not like them at all!!!!!


PS how are you needing loupes right now anyways? Aren't you just starting dental school?

 

[ehop24]

...which all brings up a valid question....

when should you use loupes?

i mean, is learning to prep while wearing loupes going to make you incapable of doing so without the loupes?

i have read quite a bit about the ergonomic dangers of a career as a dentist. wearing loupes throughout your career could be the difference between working comfortably at 65 and being forced into retirement at 40. i've met many a crane-necked dentist.

also, loupes make a dentist capable of producing better clinical results. nobody will argue against that.

should first year dental students become proficient with loupes? or is it going to be a detriment to them in some way?

i have had broadband internet service since it's inception. it's clearly superior. dial-up would still work in a pinch, but it would suck. does this argument parallel the loupe argument? or could i not go back to dial-up at all (figuritively)?

 

[aphistis]

I'm buying them partly to get used to having them, partly in hopes they'll improve my lab work, and partly because my finances permit it, so why not go ahead and get them?

Obviously, loupes aren't indispensable for dentistry; they've been filling cavities for a lot of years without anything more than eyeglasses. But anything that will enhance my performance as a clinician, I'm all in favor of.

Will they improve things this year? Maybe, maybe not. Will they impede? Doubtful, and I can send them back if I so decide. They WILL help later on, though. Those three questions ultimately comprise the decision for me.

 

[c132]

To answer your ?, most of the time, loupes are not needed. They will slow you down, I know this from experience. I can cut a crown prep in 45 minutes without loupes and with them about 60 minutes.

All removable pros work, you won't need them. For most of operative, you will not need them, again if you are near an adjacent tooth, they are good to keep the enamel chip there. They are good when you're in the dental chair because of the correct positioning of your back and head. Although if you work on positioning, then you will not fall into that category of people. Loupes force you to keep the distance because they don't come into focus but the set amount, rather it be 14, 16, or 18 inches.


In short, in the preclinical labs, I almost always got an A on all my preps never using loupes. Now as patients turn up, I feel like I crowd them sometimes, again when something tedious comes into play like cutting a box in a DO on tooth number 2, so i will flip down my loupes then and use them for a few minutes!


Loupes are not for all dentists, that is for sure. Don't listen to salesmen though for they will steer you wrong. They will tell you that you will do the best dentistry that your capable of and you have to have them etc....


ANY OTHER ?'s about loupes?

 

[ItsGavinC]

Originally posted by Jazzman6
Loupes??? Don't waste your money. Learn how to work without them. What's going to happen if you don't have them handy?

Ehhh....sorry sir, I can't do your filling today, because I dont have my special glasses...

Then you won't be able to see as well. Nothing more, and nothing less.

Stupid argument and quite illogical.

 

[organic]

Hi

I did my part of research for dental loupes. A lot of people thought that loupes are only for seeing better....in that case, of course, lots of dentists with 20/20 vision wouldn't care for a pair of loupes...for myself, I definitely will keep on using loupes for the rest of my career life. They help me put less strain on my eyes, and best of all, they keep me at a correct and good posture. I think my whole body and especially my neck appreciates this very much....

from my research on different brands, orascopic should be the best....but it is very expensive, as for training purpose, I don't think you necessarily need such expensive loupes. And the higher the magnification, the smaller the field will be, and usually the farther you have to be from your target object...

I used to be skeptical about loupes,too. But now I do think it is indispensible for dentists....

 

[no2thdk999]

Get loupes and get them now.

IMHO any dentist not using magnification is not treating their patients optimally. You may still be able to do a good job with NAKED EYES, but you could do better, even if your 20/20. The exception might be someone doing complete dentures only.

We work in a world of small tolerances where tenths of a mm can be critical to success. If you can make your subject larger, your movements will be more refined and precise and your quality will improve. It MAY take you longer but only because that perfect margin without loupes doesn't look so perfect anymore .

As to becomng dependant on them, dentists are dependant on lots of things (handpiece, impression materials, labs, etc...). And that's not a bad thing. You could always work without them but you won't want to because you'll see the decrease in quality you get with no magnification.

As to which kind try them all and pick what you like the best. Plus if you get them now you'll get used to them faster and you can get the student discount which is roughly 40-50% off.

It's a no brainer.


Bob

 

[ItsGavinC]

Saying you should learn to operate without loupes is akin to saying you should operate without a modern drill (ie, use one with 1400 rpm) or without anesthetics.

To many dentists they are part of the complete care package, not just a gimmicky toy.

 

[UBTom]

To be fair, sometimes it's personal preference.

Remember that there are dentists out there who just cannot tolerate loupes because it causes their vision to swim or get headaches from them.

It's not an absolute requirement; if it helps a practitioner, more power to him/her. But they are definitely not for everybody.

 

[critterbug]

Originally posted by UBTom
To be fair, sometimes it's personal preference.

Remember that there are dentists out there who just cannot tolerate loupes because it causes their vision to swim or get headaches from them.

It's not an absolute requirement; if it helps a practitioner, more power to him/her. But they are definitely not for everybody.

The dentist I shadowed does not use them. I never did ask her why, but I think it was a personal preference. On the other hand, the senior doc used them,

So, this brings up a question. Do most dental schools require one to purchase loupes even though theres a chance that one might prefer not to work with them?

 

[c132]

ITS GAVINC, i was just wondering what operative that you have done being a first year what about 3 weeks into the program? How would you know what loupes does for one with a drill?

 

[Brand]

Personally I don't think anyone in their first year has any business saying what works best in lab. Its like a fat kid telling me how to jog.

 

[c132]

That is very true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! VERY GOOD POINT

 

[Midoc]

I bought my loupes (Designs for Vision 2.5x - I love them) second semester of my first year. I think that is an optimal time to get them First semester learning how to prep teeth is hard enough without having to learn how to work with the loupes as well.

The impression I had when I got my loupes was that it felt like I was cheating when I cut a prep. In addition to that almost all of the instructors in the sim lab use loupes to grade your work so in a way you disadvantage yourself if you don't have them.

The loupes will slow you down when you first get them and when you start something new. I cut my very first crown prep this afternoon and it took an excessive amount of time. I spent almost three and a half hours on that thing but I had it checked by some third years and they said it was almost perfect. I think the only problems were a slight abrasion to the adjacent tooth and my bevel on the functional cusps was 0.5 mm too big. I can honestly say I would not have been able to do as well on my first crown prep if I did not have loupes.

Dan Roberts
Univ of Detroit-Mercy

 

[organic]

yes, loupes slow you down at the beginning....big way....