Love Letter Responses

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stef.ver

stef.ver

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Is it common to receive a response after sending a program an email that you're ranking them high? I haven't gotten a response and I'm starting to get a little worried.
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Program directors aren't going to be able to respond to this substantitively, anyway.
Maybe they love you but the other guy is the chairman's nephew, or maybe they don't love you but the guy they do love is going somewhere else. I have been on both sides of the Match and in both cases it seems pretty random and unpalatable.
 
Nada. I doubt I'm high on their list. Only sent one because resident I'm friends with there suggested I pour my heart out.

No one wins. PDs all probably have been burned by someone they ranked to match who sent a love letter and went elsewhere, so most don't trust it most likely. And on our side there are programs that bombard 99/100 they interviewed with "were ranking you highly"

Wish we could shorten the time from ROL submission to match day to lessen the anxiety. Its hard not to be anxious about where you are going to train for your dream career for 4 years. On top of that, some of us have relationships that will be long distance depending how far down the list we go. Or family we want to be near. But that's the risk of going to med school
 
tthhrrooaawwaayy said:
Wish we could shorten the time from ROL submission to match day to lessen the anxiety. Its hard not to be anxious about where you are going to train for your dream career for 4 years. On top of that, some of us have relationships that will be long distance depending how far down the list we go. Or family we want to be near. But that's the risk of going to med school
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if it helps, just remember that residency sucks wherever you end up
 
I did not hear back from my top program, and I matched there. Some of my co-residents told me that my PD emailed them, some told he even called them to discuss more about my program’s strengths. My observation is programs tend to call and write back to their high reach candidates, not average ones.
 
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SeniorWrangler said:
Program directors aren't going to be able to respond to this substantitively, anyway.
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Or we're pleased that you liked our program, and maybe we really would be happy to match you--but we really don't want to lead you on or promise you anything--because we honestly don't know whether our breakpoint is 10 or 25 or 50 this year...

Lack of response doesn't mean anything. I promise.
Pour an adult beverage and get caught up on Netflix.
 
We may be PDs, but we don't have a clue about what is going to happen so stop trying to get hints from us. I bet my coordinator about who is going to match and who isn't and getting one or two right tends to be enough to win lunch. We are really bad at it. We don't keep our cards close to our chest, we just don't have a clue. Since you guys now apply to 40 places, our lists are longer and we go further down them. We fall in love 20 times for every one we land. It is really cruel for us too. 😕:arghh::bigtears::blackeye::depressed::grumpy::hurting::nailbiting:🤔:shrug:
 
So is the consensus that lack of love letter response doesn't mean that the applicant is less loved? It's mostly because of uncertainty and not wanting to mislead applicants?
 
thoffen said:
I thought this thread was going to be about getting love letters from patients. I have to admit I am disappoint.
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Luckily, I stopped getting these now that I no longer do DBT treatment. And, my dementia patients won't remember me long enough after leaving my office to write one.
 
WisNeuro said:
Luckily, I stopped getting these now that I no longer do DBT treatment. And, my dementia patients won't remember me long enough after leaving my office to write one.
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You just traded them for the privilege of being pimped out to their grandkids.
 
The response I got from my topchoice was something like "you're one of our top applicants and we have little doubt we'll be seeing you next year and the years to come."

I was reassured. My advising dean says trust it 90%. I sent 3 "like" letters hoping to help my chances in case I strike out.
 
molecularmimicry said:
So is the consensus that lack of love letter response doesn't mean that the applicant is less loved? It's mostly because of uncertainty and not wanting to mislead applicants?
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You can't know what it means. It likely means nothing. In fact, it's the baseline, expected response, regardless of your position on their rank list. You can't know whether the PD of that program 1. never replies 2. replies only to the top (insert number of residents per year) on their list or 3. some other odd, personal thing.

The reason the match algorithm led to a Nobel prize was not the algorithm, itself, which is not actually all that amazing. The part that won the Nobel prize was essentially the creation of a new subfield of economics, along with formal proofs of the optimal nature of the algorithm. That includes proving that the match is very hard (basically impossible) to game. Generally, not saying anything is the right thing to do, unless you're saying that you're ranking a program #1 or a program is saying that you will 100% match with them.

MaximusMDPhD said:
I sent 3 "like" letters hoping to help my chances in case I strike out.
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Don't do this. Terrible idea from a game theoretical perspective. Never inform a program that they're not your #1. Similarly, programs will never outright tell you that you're not ranked to match. Malignant programs will take liberty with the phrase "ranked to match."



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Having sat on the selection committee this year, I have to say that this process is insane. It's so hard to parse out candidates beyond the four general positions on your list (don't rank, rank, likely, guaranteed.)
 
FlowRate said:
Don't do this. Terrible idea from a game theoretical perspective. Never inform a program that they're not your #1. Similarly, programs will never outright tell you that you're not ranked to match. Malignant programs will take liberty with the phrase "ranked to match."
----

Having sat on the selection committee this year, I have to say that this process is insane. It's so hard to parse out candidates beyond the four general positions on your list (don't rank, rank, likely, guaranteed.)
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Did you get the sense that "you're one of my top choices" is somehow worse than complete radio silence? They seem equivalent in what they reveal about an applicant's decision (namely that your residency program is 2nd or worse), but the former letter with heartfelt comments about program interests, training opportunities, and the observations about the quality of the trainees seems to at least suggest there was a painful dilemma in the whole ranking process. Which, of course, there was.
 
I'll add that a PD called me after I sent my "like" letter. She said she hadn't yet received the message and then basically put me on the spot to where I had to say everything that went into the letter. That was tough.
 
tthhrrooaawwaayy said:
Wish we could shorten the time from ROL submission to match day to lessen the anxiety. Its hard not to be anxious about where you are going to train for your dream career for 4 years. On top of that, some of us have relationships that will be long distance depending how far down the list we go. Or family we want to be near. But that's the risk of going to med school
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This. I get that it takes time to make the rank list and gather all the info, but why does it take 3 weeks to run the algorithm? I feel like once everyone's information is in it should be basically instantaneous to get the results. Does it really take that long to organize sending the results out to everyone?

FlowRate said:
Having sat on the selection committee this year, I have to say that this process is insane. It's so hard to parse out candidates beyond the four general positions on your list (don't rank, rank, likely, guaranteed.)
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How common is it to not rank someone that was interviewed? I understand it if someone raises red flags at the interview or has an absolutely terrible interview, but is it common for programs to not rank a large number of applicants because they fall too low on the list?
 
Stagg737 said:
How common is it to not rank someone that was interviewed? I understand it if someone raises red flags at the interview or has an absolutely terrible interview, but is it common for programs to not rank a large number of applicants because they fall too low on the list?
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MDT has way more experience, so I'd take that response over my own. My lesser experience agrees with the 0-4% estimate.
 
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MaximusMDPhD said:
I'll add that a PD called me after I sent my "like" letter. She said she hadn't yet received the message and then basically put me on the spot to where I had to say everything that went into the letter. That was tough.
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I am confused by your post. Did you send a 'letter' through the post office, or an email? If an email, how could she not have yet received it?

I don't understand how she put you on the spot to tell her what was in the letter. That is bizarre.
 
Psychotic said:
I am confused by your post. Did you send a 'letter' through the post office, or an email? If an email, how could she not have yet received it?

I don't understand how she put you on the spot to tell her what was in the letter. That is bizarre.
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It was an email. She called me incidentally before checking her email. I told her I had sent it that morning. She asked me what it said. Total Seinfeld moment.
 
I sent one, I didn't hear anything back. I felt extremely comfortable during my interview and had a great feeling after. APD sent a response to my thank you telling me they were glad I interviewed there. A couple weeks, maybe three now, I sent my Letter of Intent and heard nothing. I was reassured by some members of this forum, but now I'm nervous lol. Phone calls? Why are some PDs calling people?

My letter mentioned resident satisfaction and training opportunities. I had one of my attendings review it before sending. Ugh
 
Geraltofrivia said:
I sent one, I didn't hear anything back. I felt extremely comfortable during my interview and had a great feeling after. APD sent a response to my thank you telling me they were glad I interviewed there. A couple weeks, maybe three now, I sent my Letter of Intent and heard nothing. I was reassured by some members of this forum, but now I'm nervous lol. Phone calls? Why are some PDs calling people?

My letter mentioned resident satisfaction and training opportunities. I had one of my attendings review it before sending. Ugh
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From what I gather, this may be the most likely scenario when candidates send LOIs. At least I hope it is for your sake and mine lol.
 
Geraltofrivia said:
I sent one, I didn't hear anything back. I felt extremely comfortable during my interview and had a great feeling after. APD sent a response to my thank you telling me they were glad I interviewed there. A couple weeks, maybe three now, I sent my Letter of Intent and heard nothing. I was reassured by some members of this forum, but now I'm nervous lol. Phone calls? Why are some PDs calling people?

My letter mentioned resident satisfaction and training opportunities. I had one of my attendings review it before sending. Ugh
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Again, chill out, most people will not hear from a PD or receive a (specific) response to their LOI. Many programs don't do post-interview communication. Others tend to save it for their very top candidates. Those top candidates are top candidates at a lot of places and represent basically the top 30-100 people in the match. There's nothing wrong with not being in that group. Those people will not take all the spots at any program.
 
And please...just stop calling them "Letters of Intent".
Makes it sound like it's something formal, required, and expected--NONE of which are true.
Again, as a PD I love hearing that applicants liked us...but I'm not counting anyone in until the NRMP says you've actually matched here.
 
OldPsychDoc said:
And please...just stop calling them "Letters of Intent".
Makes it sound like it's something formal, required, and expected--NONE of which are true.
Again, as a PD I love hearing that applicants liked us...but I'm not counting anyone in until the NRMP says you've actually matched here.
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You mean it's not like Signing Day in college football and basketball? A bunch of med school kids sitting there with different residencies hats on a table, choosing one and putting ink to paper on Live TV?
 
Letters of intent have no bearing on how programs rate you. "Audition" rotations are rotations, value them for their educational experience but they don't automatically lead to an interview invitation. "I'm ranking you very highly" means number two or three. Honestly we would rather you get your number one and not come to us disappointed. No need to tell us "you are my second or third favorite program". Just be sure and make your list honestly with the best programs above the next to best and all will go well. Just know that where you match probably had dozens of applicants ranked higher than you, but that is just the way it is when everyone applies to 40 places. This is a fickle process and the reality is tough, but most people come out well.
 
MacDonaldTriad said:
It is actually worse with match day ceremonies where people cry in public.
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This sounds terrible. I am thankful for my match day experience of a phone call from the training director and an e-mail verification from the matching service. No ceremony, no crying, nice and easy.
 
Thanks for the posts everybody, especially attendings and PDs. I sent a “at the top of my list” by stupid mistake to apd of my number one so I hope it’s not misinterpreted by her.

To fellow applicants: it’s going to work out for us. I’m going to make the conscious decision to not think about this and try to redirect this energy into getting good at cooking or learning a new skill or something. Hope to see posts come March 15 week with everybody happy!
 
I doubt PDs will variably answer questions based on how high you are on their list. This may be just a sign of disorganization in general and not a function of who you are. Of course that may color your opinion about how well run a program is.
 
MacDonaldTriad said:
I doubt PDs will variably answer questions based on how high you are on their list. This may be just a sign of disorganization in general and not a function of who you are. Of course that may color your opinion about how well run a program is.
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Yeah but it's a tiny shred of evidence regardless. There's a lot on a PDs plate, and there are tons of other factors for how a program is run.
 
Stagg737 said:
This. I get that it takes time to make the rank list and gather all the info, but why does it take 3 weeks to run the algorithm? I feel like once everyone's information is in it should be basically instantaneous to get the results. Does it really take that long to organize sending the results out to everyone?
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My understanding is that it takes 8 hours to run the algorithm... -_______--
 
PabloPabloPablo said:
My understanding is that it takes 8 hours to run the algorithm... -_______--
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Most match services re-run the algorithm and employ various double/triplechecks and safeguards to verify the results. Better to spend the time on the front end making sure it worked like it was supposed to, than to clean up the massive mess if it doesn't and you released the results too quickly.
 
PabloPabloPablo said:
My understanding is that it takes 8 hours to run the algorithm... -_______--
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I believe the algorithm itself takes less time than that. It's not that complicated an algorithm and also not that much data to sort. Less than a minute, likely.

I trained classifiers on literally billions of data points in less than 8 hours.
 
On the flip side: Should I write back to a program director who sent me a very nice, personal "we'd love to have you" email? And if so, what should I write...? This program is probably going to be #3 or #4 for me.
 
WisNeuro said:
Luckily, I stopped getting these now that I no longer do DBT treatment. And, my dementia patients won't remember me long enough after leaving my office to write one.
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Or you're getting older? 😉 j/k
 
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