Low GPA 2.93 and thinking about doing a CLS program at my hospital?

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sunrat39

sunrat39

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Hey,

I am starting my path to med school and it will start from this post on this website. I have a 2.93 gpa (cumulative) from SIUE. I have a BA: Medical Science: Chemistry degree from them and I know this gpa is what I will have to work with when I am applying to med school. Here are a few options I am looking into and I am just hope someone here can give me some guidance. I am currently studying for the MCAT and plan on taking it in the spring sometime.
I currently work in the STAT lab at my local hospital (ED and ICU departments.) and in retail (been there 7 years).
I am planning on attending my hospitals CLS (clinical laboratory scientist) program next year, but I have to take a few biology courses to meet the pre reqs.
So, I am taking microbiology this fall semester at a local community college and then immunology during spring at my local university to meet those pre reqs.
I took a Biochemistry lab course and a physical chemistry lab course OUTSIDE SIUE at another university and got an A and B (so it would raise my overall gpa, not by much, but since it is from another university it is not factored in my overall gpa).
If I get an A in both my micro and immunology courses will med school add those two courses and my two lab courses up to get me at that "barely safe" 3.0 gpa?
Will the CLS program (11 month program) look good for my med school application? Will it even help me out? (in a way help my undergrad gpa)
I am also thinking about a grad degree at my local university if I can't get into the CLS program.
DO schools an option?
Caribbeans are last on my list but if I have to, then I guess I will.

Any advice/guidance/help? Please.
 
The program might help a bit, but your best option's lie with either retaking classes and applying DO ( much safer option) or attending a SMP ( extremely expensive and usually requires a good mcat) and apply MD & DO. Doing a graduate program will help but not half as much as the other options which are proven more effective.
 
sunrat39 said:
Hey,
I took a Biochemistry lab course and a physical chemistry lab course OUTSIDE SIUE at another university and got an A and B (so it would raise my overall gpa, not by much, but since it is from another university it is not factored in my overall gpa).
If I get an A in both my micro and immunology courses will med school add those two courses and my two lab courses up to get me at that "barely safe" 3.0 gpa?
Will the CLS program (11 month program) look good for my med school application? Will it even help me out? (in a way help my undergrad gpa)
I am also thinking about a grad degree at my local university if I can't get into the CLS program.
DO schools an option?
Caribbeans are last on my list but if I have to, then I guess I will.

Any advice/guidance/help? Please.
Click to expand...

That Biochem and P-Chem will definitely be added into your AAMC cGPA and BCPM GPA when you apply to med school.

Taking more courses is the way to go IMO. I think doing well here will help demonstrate that you have the necessary intelligence to complete medical school. I think a full year of post bacc courses may be necessary. If done properly, it will raise your overall GPA.

BTW, what is your science GPA?
 
Thanks for the help so far guys. Very much appreciated. My CLS program is outlined here (if I get in):

http://www.osfsaintfrancis.org/Coll...l-laboratory-science/course-descriptions.html

My science GPA is under 3.0 unfortunately. Now, should I retake classes or should I take different science courses? I was thinking CLS program might really help me because it involves the microscopic aspect of patient care, and I can better my knowledge and judgement of a patient if I am a doctor by having a CLS degree as my background. The CLS program is a 11 month program and pertains to Chemistry (some biochem), Microbiology, Immunology, Hematology and another Microbiology course all with labs.

Thanks again so far guys 🙂
 
sunrat39 said:
I have a 2.93 gpa (cumulative) from SIUE. I have a BA: Medical Science: Chemistry degree

I am currently studying for the MCAT and plan on taking it in the spring sometime.

1) I am planning on attending my hospitals CLS (clinical laboratory scientist) program next year, but I have to take a few biology courses to meet the pre reqs.

2) If I get an A in both my micro and immunology courses will med school add those two courses and my two lab courses up to get me at that "barely safe" 3.0 gpa?

3) I am also thinking about a grad degree at my local university if I can't get into the CLS program.

4) DO schools an option?
Click to expand...
1) Maybe you could explain what this program is. Is it a research experience. Does it train you to assist others doing research? Please give more detail.

2) Any post-high school coursework you take will help raise your undergrad GPA (if you get As), so long as the class is not required as a candidate for a grad degree.

3) A traditional masters degree will not improve your candidacy for med school except as it provides research and teaching opportunities, as you are generally judged by undergrad GPA (and MCAT score). A grad degree is usually looked on as a very nice EC. Alternatively, an SMP (Special Masters Program), will help override a low undergrad GPA. Have you looked into SIU's MedPrep Program? If you do well there, you have a high chance of matriculating into their affiliated med school. Other options for SMP in Illinois exist through Midwestern University (DO), Loyola, and Rosalind Franklin. More options can be researched in SDN's Postbaccalaureate Programs Forum.

4) DO schools are a great option. They have a grade forgiveness policy where they only count the most recent retake, so if you have a few low grades dragging your GPA down, retaking them improves your GPA faster than with AMCAS (which averages all grades together). Also, they are more forgiving of past poor academics if you have turned over a new leaf. Average matriculant has a 3.48/26.09 for stats.
 
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sunrat39 said:
Thanks for the help so far guys. Very much appreciated. My CLS program is outlined here (if I get in):

http://www.osfsaintfrancis.org/Coll...l-laboratory-science/course-descriptions.html

My science GPA is under 3.0 unfortunately. Now, should I retake classes or should I take different science courses? I was thinking CLS program might really help me because it involves the microscopic aspect of patient care, and I can better my knowledge and judgement of a patient if I am a doctor by having a CLS degree as my background. The CLS program is a 11 month program and pertains to Chemistry (some biochem), Microbiology, Immunology, Hematology and another Microbiology course all with labs.

Thanks again so far guys 🙂
Click to expand...

I used to work in a hospital lab, and the CLS option will probably be looked at as another extracurricular. It is a good clinical experience in terms of knowing how the diagnostic lab works, but unfortunately involves little to no patient contact. If you want to be a CLS, you should do it; but not to improve your med school app. Med schools want a high GPA and MCAT first and foremost, and those are the things you should be working toward. The lab program will take about a year and set you up for a nice job, but you will not likely have much time to devote to acing your classes and MCAT. If you want to be physician, retake classes you did poorly in, take more upper level science courses, perform well on the MCAT, and apply DO. Good luck! You came to the right place for advice.
 
Recommeded plan:

First Hurdle: Get to a 3.0 and kill the MCAT. Getting to a 3.0 (both cum and BCPM) is easy: just take community college classes. Killing the MCAT is pretty danged hard, especially if you've been out of school for awhile. Be prepared to blow a lot of money on either Princeton Review or a Kaplan live review course and to lose every free hour for the equivalent of a semester studying for this test. More advice on our MCAT forum.

Second Hurdle: Get into an SMP. SMPs are programs that allow you to take classes with, and to be graded against, medical students. They are desigened as 'auditons' for medical school for people who have something wrong with their application (usually a low GPA and a high MCAT). Students that succeed in these programs tend to get into medical school withing two years of matriculating into the SMP regardless of their stats. Admission to SMPs is still competitive, so you need to make sure that, other than your GPA, you have a good application and you apply to at least half a dozen programs. SMPs are explained here, and various programs are rated here. Read through both threads.

Third hurdle: Kill the SMP. Be prepared to put everything in your life on hold and bet tens of thousands of dollars on your success.

Final hurdle: Put together a good application with essays and letters of rec, apply early (the earliest possible day you can apply) and broadly, and interview well.

If you succeed, you're in medical school!

Alternative plans:

DO schools let you replace your grades rather than just averaging together retakes with your origional grades, so if your low GPA is based on one or two semesters of all Fs rather than a steady 2.9 average across 4 years your best bet may be retaking classes. If you do this make sure to develop a deep appreciation for the DO philosophy, and make sure you can back it up with letters of recommendation.

You can go to the Caribbean. I don't recommend this for anyone because 1) most students that go fail out, 2) most students that graduate don't get a US residency, and 3) even the students who graduate and get a US residency are likely to lose more on the compounding interest of the private loans you need to take out than they would have from investing another couple of years in improving their application. None the less the option is there and you could start as early as January if you decide to go.

NOT alternative plans:

Graduate level coursework, particularly Masters and PhD programs, will not significantly affect your chances of getting into medical school

International schools other than the 'big 4' Caribbean schools offer you essentially no chance of practicing within the United States. Ignore them.

You will NOT get in with your current stats or anything close. Please do not apply to 'give it a shot'.

For more advice, the offical SDN low GPA thread is located here, full of generations of SDN advice from people with low GPAs who unf----d themselves. The postbac forum, with threads on individual application enhancing programs and all of the threads I've linked, is here.
 
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Thanks guys you are really (as corny as it may seem) giving me hope! I am going to my community college to try and get into Organic 1 and Human anatomy and physiology 1 this semester as well. Next spring I will take Immunology at a university here and take orgo 2 and A&P 2 and maybe another course at my local community college. I will take my mcat sometime in the spring (hope to nail this sucker) and then apply to an SMP this fall? (or will it be too late?) As someone mentioned earlier, I should also try taking upper level bio and chem (some retakes) courses as well? I am glad you guys stopped me from going into the CLS route. I had a doctor tell me it was a good idea so I followed his advice. Do you think this "quick" 1 year turn around will look good for med schools but more importantly, SMP schools?

So, lets just say I get all A's in these courses ( I will put my life on hold and my gf may kill me 😀 when I take these courses). How big of a boost will this affect my gpa? I am thinking this will be a total of about...hmm... 27 or so credit hours? Maybe I will get a gpa of around 3.2 or so?
 
sunrat39 said:
Thanks guys you are really (as corny as it may seem) giving me hope! I am going to my community college to try and get into Organic 1 and Human anatomy and physiology 1 this semester as well. Next spring I will take Immunology at a university here and take orgo 2 and A&P 2 and maybe another course at my local community college. I will take my mcat sometime in the spring (hope to nail this sucker) and then apply to an SMP this fall? (or will it be too late?) As someone mentioned earlier, I should also try taking upper level bio and chem (some retakes) courses as well? I am glad you guys stopped me from going into the CLS route. I had a doctor tell me it was a good idea so I followed his advice. Do you think this "quick" 1 year turn around will look good for med schools but more importantly, SMP schools?

So, lets just say I get all A's in these courses ( I will put my life on hold and my gf may kill me 😀 when I take these courses). How big of a boost will this affect my gpa? I am thinking this will be a total of about...hmm... 27 or so credit hours? Maybe I will get a gpa of around 3.2 or so?
Click to expand...

SMPs generally have their applications in the late spring/early summer and begin in the fall. However if your GPA is a 3.0 and you have a good MCAT in the spring your application will be fine. Then you can spend the rest of spring and summer bringing your GPA up to about a 3.2. The GPA boost plus a good performance in the SMP should be enough to get you in.

The MCATs really the sticking point. If you get an average score rather than a good one odds are you're not goin to get into a good SMP and will need to take the long way around by raising your GPA to at least a 3.4 and then focusing on DO schools. If you can't even manage an average score the way into medical school is so long it's probably not worth it.
 
I have already wasted time trying to get my BA from my college (long story... let's say advisors suck!) So, having to improve my application by a few years will be fine by me. I used to be worried about starting Med school so late but I can be 28 or so and start med school (I am 25 now just an estimate age of when I think I will be in med school), or I can be 28 and not be a med student.

Sounds like you guys have given me a pretty good gameplan. I will work my butt off studying for the MCATs and my courses and take it from there. If I get into a SMP program (most likely Loyola or Rush... maybe Midwestern) I will be very happy. If I don't well I guess I will take the CLS route and have a backup plan in case med school doesn't work out.
 
Sorry I hate to bump my thread like this but another question...

I am currently enrolled for the A&P 1, Orgo Chem 1, and Microbiology courses at my local community college. Should I redo some upper courses as well (biochemistry,etc...)? The problem is that these upper level courses are only offered at a private university here in Peoria (Bradley) and will get rather expensive. Or, should I just take science courses at this community college and just bump up my gpa that way?
 
Bloomington can't be that far from you (45 minutes?), and ISU would be a cheaper alternative. It would look very good if you got As at the (presumed to be more rigorous) university level, too, and didn't just take CC classes. Biochem would be particularly helpful (many school recommend it).
 
Catalystik,

Thanks for your help so far. I am thinking maybe I could take courses at my community college this fall semester, and then possibly take upper level courses at ISU spring semester (possibly summer as well?). My Biochem grades are both C's (as well as my orgo grades). So, that is why I really want to get my orgo grades up and then do some upper level courses. I really want to get into a SMP program by next fall (2011) and I am kind of cramming all I want to do this semester, spring semester and summer. Plus, I still have to take the MCAT.

I am 25 (turn 26 october) and I really need to get this ball moving. That is why I am making haste on these issues. Should I be looking into maybe applying for SMP during 2012 year or do you think I can make it fall of 2011?
 
do you think I can make it fall of 2011?
Click to expand...
It may depend on whether your cGPA goes over a 3.0 in just one term. If not, you wouldn't fulfill the most GPA common cut off for the majority of programs (do the research to know this for sure).

To put age into perspective, i know a guy that got into my med school at the age of 53, graduated at 57, residency done at 60, now out in practice three years. Age is not an issue. Having the best possible application is an issue. Wander over to the Nontrad Forum and see how many 30ish and 40ish aspirants there are.
 
sunrat39 said:
I have already wasted time trying to get my BA from my college (long story... let's say advisors suck!) So, having to improve my application by a few years will be fine by me. I used to be worried about starting Med school so late but I can be 28 or so and start med school (I am 25 now just an estimate age of when I think I will be in med school), or I can be 28 and not be a med student.

Sounds like you guys have given me a pretty good gameplan. I will work my butt off studying for the MCATs and my courses and take it from there. If I get into a SMP program (most likely Loyola or Rush... maybe Midwestern) I will be very happy. If I don't well I guess I will take the CLS route and have a backup plan in case med school doesn't work out.
Click to expand...

Read throught those threads I linked. There are other SMPs that will do more to maximize your chances of getting into medical school than the ones you've listed. This is not something you want to pick based on geography
 
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Oh yea, I will perrotfish. I guess since those are nearby they are just easier to look at but I will take a look at others and maximize my situation. It is like applying to med school in a way 😀

Thanks for the help guys, I hope this gives others who are in the same position as I am an idea of what to do as well!
 
Ok so here are my grades (science wise)

Gen Chem I : F then B
Gen Chem I Lab: A
Gen Chem II: A
Gen Chem II Lab: A
Organic Chem I: F then C
Organic Chem II: D then C
Org Chem II Lab: A
Analytical Chem: C
Analy. Chem Lab: A
Physical Chem I: B
Phys. Chem I Lab: B
Physical Chem II: C
Phys. Chem II Lab: A
Biochemistry I: C
Biochemistry II: D then C
Biochemistry Lab: B

Bio Animal System: B
Bio Plant Systems: D then B
Hum Sex. and Rep.: C then A
Genetics: C then WP
Anat & Phys I: D then C then B

Sorry I forgot Math and Physics...

Calc I : D then B
Calc 2: C (summer during my jury duty aghhhh bombed the final... oh well C is a C)
Phys 1: C
Phys 2: B
Stat : A
Pre-Calc: B


So, those are my science grades... 🙁 I am ready for the burn so let me have it. I am taking these courses for Fall 2010:

Anatomy and Physiology I ( I want that A)
Microbiology
Organic Chem I with lab

Spring semester I am thinking:

Anatomy and Physiology II
Immunology (university)
Organic Chem II with lab (maybe I don't need the lab since I got an A in it?)
Biochemistry I (don't know where to take it probably Bradley or ISU)

Summer I am thinking:

Biochemistry II
Genetics (if they offer it) or some other biology course

Do you think I will get to a SMP program next year or possibly applying to DO? This is of course I get GREAT grades ( I need ALL A's). As you can see I am not taking a lot of upper level science courses. Should I redo upper level courses for 2011-2012 year and apply DO during 2012-2013 year? I really want 2012 to be the year I get my dreams going but I know I shouldn't hold my breath.

Perrotfish and company... what does your guys' magic 8 ball say? Maybe DO school for 2012 is the best option and I can use the 2011-2012 year to get my upper level courses grades up and going? I will be taking my MCAT during Spring 2011.
 
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Don't retake a OChem lab you got an A in.

Keep in mind that for the DO grade forgiveness policy to kick in, the replacement course must have the same number of credit hours or greater.

Why not figure out what your DO application cGPA is right now, then you can better appreciate the impact of your additional planned coursework:
DO GPA calculation spreadsheet: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=450050 . Also, the sGPA for DO schools doesn't include math classes, so it will be different than for AMCAS. Maybe you could tell us what that number is too?

IMO, grade consistency in your planned coursework will be essential in convincing adcomms that you have what it takes to do well in the science-intense curriculum of any med school. You will be taking the equivalent of 21 semester hours each term for two years. You can't afford for your recent transcript to look like a roller coaster ride.
 
Seems like my science gpa is under 2.75 (found out through my CLS director here at the hospital). She wants to meet with me to discuss the gpa issue. Now, having a much lower gpa than I thought (science gpa), should I just apply to Caribbean school or take a couple years of post undergrad work and try to bump up my gpa and apply DO (or by miracle a U.S. MD school)?
 
sunrat39 said:
Seems like my science gpa is under 2.75 (found out through my CLS director here at the hospital). She wants to meet with me to discuss the gpa issue. Now, having a much lower gpa than I thought (science gpa), should I just apply to Caribbean school or take a couple years of post undergrad work and try to bump up my gpa and apply DO (or by miracle a U.S. MD school)?
Click to expand...

I would recommend any other option, including finding another career entirely, before I'd recommend a Caribbean school. The cost is too high relative to your odds of actually becoming a practicing physician. Most people they enroll will never graduate, and a huge chunk of the people they graduate will never match, and you can't get out of those student loans no matter what.

So, again, your options as I see them:

1) A little more undergrad work, a great MCAT, a good performance in a good SMP, and you're in an MD school in 2-3 years.

2) A lot more undergraduate work, a good MCAT, and a letter of rec from a DO and you start at a DO school in 2-3 years.

3) An alternitive career.
 
Ok, now this may sound dumb but I want to understand this correctly. Post-bacc means taking courses (Community College or university) AFTER getting your degree, correct? You don't have to enroll in a post-bacc program, just take courses (pre reqs, upper level, etc...) and that can be like an "unofficial" post-bacc program for myself? I think I see people correlate SMP with post bacc as well. Thanks for the clarification.

Also, my gpa right now as far as DO schools go, is at 2.8 science gpa (if I did the math correctly. By multiplying the credit hours times the grade you got, A=4, B=3, C=2, D=1, and F=0 and divide that number by total credit hours*4) Since DO schools replace grades, that will save my butt. DO schools dont include Math grades correct? Physics? Stat?
 
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Math and Statistics are not included in the AACOMAS sGPA. But Physics is:
AMCAS BCPM GPA and AACOMAS sGPA includes: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=552026

Postbac refers to classes taken after you complete your baccalaureate degree. Classes can be taken informally on your own, or via a formal (more expensive) program that may also provide you with counseling, research, and volunteering opportunities, etc. I think that SMPs are grouped with "postbac" because they do not confer a usable degree, and are not similar to a traditional masters. They don't however, raise the uGPA like a true postbac does.
 
sorry, so my gpa then is 2.75 (as far as DO goes). Looks like I will need to do well this year (school and MCAT) and hope I get into a SMP program. If not, looks like ANOTHER year of undergrad will be in order. Geez, If I could go back and not work as many hours and actually thought all this through. I dug myself in a deep hole. Got to get my head on straight.
 
sunrat39 said:
Ok, now this may sound dumb but I want to understand this correctly. Post-bacc means taking courses (Community College or university) AFTER getting your degree, correct? You don't have to enroll in a post-bacc program, just take courses (pre reqs, upper level, etc...) and that can be like an "unofficial" post-bacc program for myself? I think I see people correlate SMP with post bacc as well. Thanks for the clarification.
Click to expand...

Yes, a post-bac means taking more undergraduate level coursework to improve your application. A formal postbac is a program, generally a year long, designed to get you through the medical school prereqs if you graduated without them. An informal postbac is a fancy way of saying that you're taking/retaking a bunch of undergraduate level classes to improve your GPA. An SMP is a graduate level program run by a medical school and designed to get you into medical school. As explained earlier all other graduate level coursework is a very inefficient way to improve your medical school application.
 
Ok I decided to give a little bit of an update as far as my journey to become a doctor.

I recently went to a community college and retook some courses and took microbiology for the first time.

Fall Semester:
Anatomy and Physiology = B (off by 1% for that A) 🙁
Microbiology = A (LOVED this class, it kept me entertained)
Organic Chemistry = B (got a C at my other school)

Spring Semester:
Anatomy and Physiology = B (I got a 89.2% and the lowest A was a 90.1%) 🙁
Organic Chemistry = B (Also got a C last time at my other school)

Summary:
Well, no C's so hopefully I erased that habit. I wish I could have gotten A's in my A&P classes since I was so close but I know it is what it is.

Future:
Retaking Biochemistry at ISU this Fall and I will probably take another Chem course and maybe a higher level Bio (still haven't taken Cell Biology)
Spring will be more of the same.

So, what do you guys think? I think I will finish up at ISU and then apply at a DO school still (provided I do well on the MCAT) or try that SMP degree.

Also, I ordered the MCAT gold standard home study package as I think I learn best with videos and audio.
 
Catalystik said:
So your cGPA/sGPA was 2.95/2.75. What does your recent coursework raise your AACOMAS GPAs to now?
Click to expand...

Good question. I will check when I get home as work is getting crazy right now. Thanks for checking up catalystik!
 
sunrat39 said:
Ok I decided to give a little bit of an update as far as my journey to become a doctor.

I recently went to a community college and retook some courses and took microbiology for the first time.

Fall Semester:
Anatomy and Physiology = B (off by 1% for that A) 🙁
Microbiology = A (LOVED this class, it kept me entertained)
Organic Chemistry = B (got a C at my other school)

Spring Semester:
Anatomy and Physiology = B (I got a 89.2% and the lowest A was a 90.1%) 🙁
Organic Chemistry = B (Also got a C last time at my other school)

Summary:
Well, no C's so hopefully I erased that habit. I wish I could have gotten A's in my A&P classes since I was so close but I know it is what it is.

Future:
Retaking Biochemistry at ISU this Fall and I will probably take another Chem course and maybe a higher level Bio (still haven't taken Cell Biology)
Spring will be more of the same.

So, what do you guys think? I think I will finish up at ISU and then apply at a DO school still (provided I do well on the MCAT) or try that SMP degree.

Also, I ordered the MCAT gold standard home study package as I think I learn best with videos and audio.
Click to expand...

ISU as in Illinois State? Just graduated from there. If so, will that be your first semester there? Feel free to PM me if you have any questions regarding any of the classes you will be taking.

Just keep fightin' to get those grades up. You're on the right track!
 
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