Low GPA....Go do a Masters

[JRMDR]

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Hey guys, for you students down about your GPA. DO a masters. THis shows your committed. Im currently 2/3 done. I have a semester left and the outlook is good. Bust your butt and you can do it. I was down about a yr ago but i got off my ass and did something about it. FOrget taking upperlevel classes to raise ur GPA. Retake ur DAT if necesary, DO a master (thesis based) 1.5-2yrs and you got another degree. Good luck and never give up!🙂

 

[USCbiograd]

Hey guys, for you students down about your GPA. DO a masters. THis shows your committed. Im currently 2/3 done. I have a semester left and the outlook is good. Bust your butt and you can do it. I was down about a yr ago but i got off my ass and did something about it. FOrget taking upperlevel classes to raise ur GPA. Retake ur DAT if necesary, DO a master (thesis based) 1.5-2yrs and you got another degree. Good luck and never give up!🙂

I am currently doing a thesis based master's of biomedical sciences program. My GPA in Undergrad was not bad (3.6 overall/science) and my DAT was pretty solid (20AA/21TS/18PAT). Do you think that completing this program will increase my chances of being accepted to Dental School?

 

[xtractime]

I am currently doing a thesis based master's of biomedical sciences program. My GPA in Undergrad was not bad (3.6 overall/science) and my DAT was pretty solid (20AA/21TS/18PAT). Do you think that completing this program will increase my chances of being accepted to Dental School?

assuming you are a sane candidate...i think you could have gotten into a dental school with your stats regardless or race, major, undergrad institution, etc. but a MS degree will only strengthen your app unless you do much worse GPA-wise

 

[denticus]

Hey guys, for you students down about your GPA. DO a masters. THis shows your committed. Im currently 2/3 done. I have a semester left and the outlook is good. Bust your butt and you can do it. I was down about a yr ago but i got off my ass and did something about it. FOrget taking upperlevel classes to raise ur GPA. Retake ur DAT if necesary, DO a master (thesis based) 1.5-2yrs and you got another degree. Good luck and never give up!🙂

Also, if you work hard enough you can get a 2-yr program done in a year to save you a year at dental school. Adcoms like to see that you can get something like a masters done quickly. Good luck all!

 

[Smills91]

Also, if you work hard enough you can get a 2-yr program done in a year to save you a year at dental school. Adcoms like to see that you can get something like a masters done quickly. Good luck all!

That's assuming your master's program ALLOWS you to get it done that quickly. Many times, course offerings/logistics of a Thesis/dissertation/praticum don't allow it to get done in a year.

 

[Kane]

USCBIOGRAD,

I'm curious why you didn't you go directly to DS? Were you considering other directions before definitely selecting dentistry as your career? Based on your numbers, it seems like any school would have wanted you.

Kane

 

[USCbiograd]

USCBIOGRAD,

I'm curious why you didn't you go directly to DS? Were you considering other directions before definitely selecting dentistry as your career? Based on your numbers, it seems like any school would have wanted you.

Kane

I did initially apply to dental school, but I only applied to one school (MUSC). Unfortunately I was not accepted, so I decided to do a master's program to make myself a more competitive applicant as well as increase future earning potential if I am not able to get accepted to dental school.

 

[denticus]

That's assuming your master's program ALLOWS you to get it done that quickly. Many times, course offerings/logistics of a Thesis/dissertation/praticum don't allow it to get done in a year.

That's true, I know that my graduate coordinator gets pissed when he see's people like me and my friend walk into the Physiology program and then walk out a year later with a masters. He has a lot of respect for my mentor though so he keeps quiet about it. Furthermore, I wouldn't recommend getting a 2-yr program done in one year if you end up doing poorly in your graduate coursework. Alternatively, I figured I couldn't go wrong with a 4.0, hehehe.

 

[I-Baby]

That's true, I know that my graduate coordinator gets pissed when he see's people like me and my friend walk into the Physiology program and then walk out a year later with a masters. He has a lot of respect for my mentor though so he keeps quiet about it. Furthermore, I wouldn't recommend getting a 2-yr program done in one year if you end up doing poorly in your graduate coursework. Alternatively, I figured I couldn't go wrong with a 4.0, hehehe.

Maybe you can help me. I'm going to be starting a program next quarter, but I want to apply for the next cycle. Do you know if they take into consideration the number of grad courses you have taken or do the look simply at your performance?

 

[denticus]

Maybe you can help me. I'm going to be starting a program next quarter, but I want to apply for the next cycle. Do you know if they take into consideration the number of grad courses you have taken or do the look simply at your performance?

I know that it certainly helps. Any "graduate" experience, be it lab work or upper level courses, looks good to adcoms in masters programs. I really didn't have that many upper level courses done when I entered but I had myriad lab experiences which reflected what I would need to do to finish a project with my mentor. I showed that I was already familiar with the work that my mentor performed and that coming up with and finishing a project would be a very viable thing for me to accomplish. Yes, they do look at your grades, and if you do well enough on the DAT then they may (depending on the program and university) take that score in place of the GRE which I was very greatful that I didn't have to take. More than anything though, they will probably admit you if you look ambitious, pragmatic, and resourceful to your mentor that you will facilitate to pump out publications with. They really want someone that can "contribute" (key word) to the department. I also know that it must help that you've actually had adequate lab experience and good relationships with faculty of the department you want to do a masters in. That said, I had a friend who had okay grades and a 20 DAT score but he didn't know anybody really. He did interview but was ultimately rejected and I really don't know why. I am just greatful that they accepted me. I know that for my class we had about 75 applicants to the Physiology program for 5 spots. Generally, they have about 60-70 applicants for 4-8 spots so you have to be competative. Just show them that your passionate, be excited, meet faculty, be familiar with their research, become their friends, maybe do some lab-work, have a reasonably successful academic background and I'm sure you'll get in. Keep in mind that this is how I saw it at BYU. It may be different at other universities. Good luck!

 

[SugarNaCl]

Also, if you work hard enough you can get a 2-yr program done in a year to save you a year at dental school. Adcoms like to see that you can get something like a masters done quickly. Good luck all!

Wow... An MS degree with thesis would be nearly IMPOSSIBLE to finish at least at the vast majority of schools with decent programs. For me it was non-stop research and classes for 2 full years. That was even tough to complete in the given time. I think this finishing in 1 year is a pipe dream.

 

[I-Baby]

I know that it certainly helps. Any "graduate" experience, be it lab work or upper level courses, looks good to adcoms in masters programs. I really didn't have that many upper level courses done when I entered but I had myriad lab experiences which reflected what I would need to do to finish a project with my mentor. I showed that I was already familiar with the work that my mentor performed and that coming up with and finishing a project would be a very viable thing for me to accomplish. Yes, they do look at your grades, and if you do well enough on the DAT then they may (depending on the program and university) take that score in place of the GRE which I was very greatful that I didn't have to take. More than anything though, they will probably admit you if you look ambitious, pragmatic, and resourceful to your mentor that you will facilitate to pump out publications with. They really want someone that can "contribute" (key word) to the department. I also know that it must help that you've actually had adequate lab experience and good relationships with faculty of the department you want to do a masters in. That said, I had a friend who had okay grades and a 20 DAT score but he didn't know anybody really. He did interview but was ultimately rejected and I really don't know why. I am just greatful that they accepted me. I know that for my class we had about 75 applicants to the Physiology program for 5 spots. Generally, they have about 60-70 applicants for 4-8 spots so you have to be competative. Just show them that your passionate, be excited, meet faculty, be familiar with their research, become their friends, maybe do some lab-work, have a reasonably successful academic background and I'm sure you'll get in. Keep in mind that this is how I saw it at BYU. It may be different at other universities. Good luck!

Thanks for the info. Would you happen to have any idea how dental schools would look at graduate work? Do you think that they would place more emphasis on the number of courses or the grades received?

 

[SugarNaCl]

Thanks for the info. Would you happen to have any idea how dental schools would look at graduate work? Do you think that they would place more emphasis on the number of courses or the grades received?

I was told by ADCOM that they look at undergraduate GPA first and foremost but an MS degree can help if you do very well. They know many times it is easier to do well in graduate school because you generally aren't taking as many classes and you have to maintain a B average to stay in most programs. Overall GPA and undergrad GPA is what matters most. That is what I was told by 2 particular schools.

 

[xtractime]

assuming we are in a 1 year accelerated master's program...have any of you had experience where dental schools would ask for your transcripts of graduate work before accepting you? i have my BS undergraduate degree...and will have completed the 1st Fall semester of grad school after dec 1st. anyone with experience on this matter or will they accept you and just expect you to at least graduate with the MS degree?

 

[PTbecomingDDS]

I was told by ADCOM that they look at undergraduate GPA first and foremost but an MS degree can help if you do very well. They know many times it is easier to do well in graduate school because you generally aren't taking as many classes and you have to maintain a B average to stay in most programs. Overall GPA and undergrad GPA is what matters most. That is what I was told by 2 particular schools.

i would say it depends on the MS degree. I have a MS in Physical Therapy and I can say that the courses and course load were not easier than upper level undergrad courses. Each semester was approx. 15-17 credit hours, so not all MS degrees can be generalized by your description.

 

[denticus]

Wow... An MS degree with thesis would be nearly IMPOSSIBLE to finish at least at the vast majority of schools with decent programs. For me it was non-stop research and classes for 2 full years. That was even tough to complete in the given time. I think this finishing in 1 year is a pipe dream.

Not if you work hard. There have been 3 people in my lab alone that have finished the two year program in 1 year including myself. Granted, all three of us had been working in the lab with our mentor during our undergrad so we were very familiar with the program before we even started. And yes, all of this was done in at BYU which does have a "decent" program. Just because I finished the program in a year doesn't mean that the program is somehow a rung lower than yours on the graduate ladder of prestige; we just worked really hard. I started in August and finished my prospectus in September all while working on my project and taking all of my classes. I finished my coursework the following april and started working on my thesis after my coursework orals at the beginning of may. I finished my thesis in August and defended the following month. I had no life but, heh, I'm married and I had nothing to lose. So, I wouldn't say it's "impossible" but I would say that there are definitely tradeoffs with regards to finishing in a year.

 

[denticus]

Thanks for the info. Would you happen to have any idea how dental schools would look at graduate work? Do you think that they would place more emphasis on the number of courses or the grades received?

Well, if you finish in a year it won't matter because the your number of courses squeezed into 2 or 3 semesters will be high. They do look at your Master's GPA though despite what anybody else says. The adcom at Baylor specifically told me that she was actually worried with how I might handle the coursework in dental school until she saw what I had accomplished (meaning my grades) in grad school. Furthermore, "number of courses" is really obsolete anyway as people generally do all their coursework their first year and then finish their project in the remaining year. Doing 2 years in one is difficult because you have to take all of your classes and finish your project (including prospectus/thesis) all within the same year. It can be done though. Don't do the 2 in 1 if you think that doing your project will affect your graduate GPA. Make sure you rock your classes and they will be impressed. I've had more than one adcom tell me that they were impressed with my graduate work accomplishments during interviews. So yes, masters programs can have a tremendous impact on your applications despite the fact that adcoms will consider first your undergraduate GPA/sGPA. Good luck!

 

[SugarNaCl]

Not if you work hard. There have been 3 people in my lab alone that have finished the two year program in 1 year including myself. Granted, all three of us had been working in the lab with our mentor during our undergrad so we were very familiar with the program before we even started. And yes, all of this was done in at BYU which does have a "decent" program. Just because I finished the program in a year doesn't mean that the program is somehow a rung lower than yours on the graduate ladder of prestige; we just worked really hard. I started in August and finished my prospectus in September all while working on my project and taking all of my classes. I finished my coursework the following april and started working on my thesis after my coursework orals at the beginning of may. I finished my thesis in August and defended the following month. I had no life but, heh, I'm married and I had nothing to lose. So, I wouldn't say it's "impossible" but I would say that there are definitely tradeoffs with regards to finishing in a year.

I am definitely not saying that my program was better. I am just saying that in my program there was physically no possible way to finish in that amount of time. I never even heard of someone finishing a complete research project in under a year working by themselves unless it was pretty simple. Yes, I know BYU is a really good school and if you were working on similar things previously, it may have thrown you ahead.

Also, about the graduate undergraduate GPA thing... that is not my word. THat is the words of 2 different Admissions Committees. I would never knock down anyone's program or imply their program was worse or harder or anything. I am strictly going by what I was told by people involved at making the admissions decisions at 2 schools I applied to. VCU knows if you take difficult classes while in your Masters program and I definitely think it helped me out. VCU was not one of the schools that told me this information.

 

[denticus]

I am definitely not saying that my program was better. I am just saying that in my program there was physically no possible way to finish in that amount of time. I never even heard of someone finishing a complete research project in under a year working by themselves unless it was pretty simple. Yes, I know BYU is a really good school and if you were working on similar things previously, it may have thrown you ahead.

Also, about the graduate undergraduate GPA thing... that is not my word. THat is the words of 2 different Admissions Committees. I would never knock down anyone's program or imply their program was worse or harder or anything. I am strictly going by what I was told by people involved at making the admissions decisions at 2 schools I applied to.

No I totally agree with you on the graduate/undergraduate GPA issue. With regards to difficulty of the research project you are absolutely correct. In one case you can get one done if the project is not complex and the experiments needed to answer the question are trivial. That wasn't the case for me though. My project was actually difficult and I had to spend hours training rats, extracting tissue samples, homogenizing, centrifuging, running western blots, and performing assays of blood glucose concentrations, and the activities of various kinases involved in my research. Then you have to collect your data and run statistics; all of this being funded by a grant I had to apply for but wasn't guranteed. The trick for me was, like I said, I was already familiar with what I was going to be doing even before I started the program. In addition, I had already finished training the rats (3 month training regimen) before I even took my first graduate level class in the fall. Needless to say, I had an excellent head start, and honestly, I probably wouldn't have finished within the year had I not had a great opening run. Accordingly, this is why I stress becoming familiar with your potential mentor's research and get used to common laboratory techniques used in his lab before you start the program if you expect to finish within a year. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that my situation is different than yours.

 

[I-Baby]

Oh, I see. My ultimate goal is to get into dental school and I wanted to get an idea of how things could possibly pan out. Thanks for the responses guys!

 

[SugarNaCl]

No I totally agree with you on the graduate/undergraduate GPA issue. With regards to difficulty of the research project you are absolutely correct. In one case you can get one done if the project is not complex and the experiments needed to answer the question are trivial. That wasn't the case for me though. My project was actually difficult and I had to spend hours training rats, extracting tissue samples, homogenizing, centrifuging, running western blots, and performing assays of blood glucose concentrations, and the activities of various kinases involved in my research. Then you have to collect your data and run statistics; all of this being funded by a grant I had to apply for but wasn't guranteed. The trick for me was, like I said, I was already familiar with what I was going to be doing even before I started the program. In addition, I had already finished training the rats (3 month training regimen) before I even took my first graduate level class in the fall. Needless to say, I had an excellent head start, and honestly, I probably wouldn't have finished within the year had I not had a great opening run. Accordingly, this is why I stress becoming familiar with your potential mentor's research and get used to common laboratory techniques used in his lab before you start the program if you expect to finish within a year. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that my situation is different than yours.

😉 Good. I wasn't trying to insult you or your work.

 

[rose786]

What is your guys' thoughts on what I've been told about getting an MS prior to dental school:
Schools tend to trust their own grad program more, so get an MS at the school you'd like to attend.
Doing a thesis based masters shows more of a commitment than doing a non-thesis based masters.

These are just things I've been told by other students.

 

[denticus]

What is your guys' thoughts on what I've been told about getting an MS prior to dental school:
Schools tend to trust their own grad program more, so get an MS at the school you'd like to attend.
Doing a thesis based masters shows more of a commitment than doing a non-thesis based masters.

These are just things I've been told by other students.

I don't think that it will make a big difference if you get your masters at the dental school your're trying to get into as opposed to other schools. I think they will care more about how well you did in your graduate program. Yeah, I suppose a "thesis" masters program carries a little bit more prestige with it than those that don't require a thesis.

 

[rose786]

I don't think that it will make a big difference if you get your masters at the dental school your're trying to get into as opposed to other schools. I think they will care more about how well you did in your graduate program. Yeah, I suppose a "thesis" masters program carries a little bit more prestige with it than those that don't require a thesis.

Yes, but how useful is a thesis really? I just fail to see the relevance if you're not going into research.

I watched my hubby work insanely hard to finish his engineering thesis, and he never again used that information. No job interviewer even asked him about it.

The thesis may come up as a question during a dental school interview, but then what? Does it really make that much of an impression on Adcoms to be worth it?

 

[SugarNaCl]

Yes, but how useful is a thesis really? I just fail to see the relevance if you're not going into research.

I watched my hubby work insanely hard to finish his engineering thesis, and he never again used that information. No job interviewer even asked him about it.

The thesis may come up as a question during a dental school interview, but then what? Does it really make that much of an impression on Adcoms to be worth it?

Thesis def. helps. The reason is you can learn the fundamentals in class, but there is no substitute for real life practical experience. I learned more in 3 years doing cancer research at a hospital than I learned in all the years of my formal study. It is AMAZING the knowledge you take out of practical research applications.

 

[Montserrat]

Strange. I asked the adcoms at a few of the schools I applied to, and they told me to pursue a non thesis based masters, and just stack on more courses in place of it. However, I'm not sure if they were already satisfied with the research experience I already have, or they didn't much care for a thesis project in general.

Edited to add - those 4 schools I asked were not as research oriented as others.

 

[I-Baby]

Strange. I asked the adcoms at a few of the schools I applied to, and they told me to pursue a non thesis based masters, and just stack on more courses in place of it. However, I'm not sure if they were already satisfied with the research experience I already have, or they didn't much care for a thesis project in general.

Edited to add - those 4 schools I asked were not as research oriented as others.

Same here. They seemed to place more emphasis on the coursework. But like everyone has said, in any case it seems like the thesis can't do anything but help you. I guess it just depends on the school and the candidate. Who knows...

 

[denticus]

Strange. I asked the adcoms at a few of the schools I applied to, and they told me to pursue a non thesis based masters, and just stack on more courses in place of it. However, I'm not sure if they were already satisfied with the research experience I already have, or they didn't much care for a thesis project in general.

Edited to add - those 4 schools I asked were not as research oriented as others.

That actually doesn't sound like that bad of an idea. However, I guess it all depends on your motive for entering a masters. Your reason would sound most obvious for somebody who is merely looking for a means to raise his/her GPA/sGPA. On the other hand, you may want to do a "thesis" masters to show the schools how committed you are to something and, as it was said earlier, that you have practical experience in a "real world" environment outside of mere cognitive learning. Regardless, I think that a masters definitely helped my chances and can help anyones if they're successful in it. For me, more than anything, I think that my masters substantiated an outrageous positive trend in my undergrad. Why didn't I do a no thesis masters? Well, I was already familiar with the research, I don't mind countless hours of writing, and for personal achievement purposes; I wanted to be a primary author on a paper for a change. Good luck to all of you!

 

[Montserrat]

I hear you. My motivation is to bolster the numbers part of my application - I certainly didn't hide that fact when I applied to a few master's programs. I didn't think that I needed a thesis to show my understanding of scientific research, because I had two collaborating research PI's write letters on my behalf. There are many ways to show dedication and the ability to excel aside from thesis work (was my rationale). A lot of my extracurriculars are skills that I have practiced for 8.5 to 20 years, and are skillsets, that though not relevant to dentistry, show commitment. I'm no virtuoso, but I'm very proficient at a few things, and that's really what I'm trying to convey with a master's degree.

That actually doesn't sound like that bad of an idea. However, I guess it all depends on your motive for entering a masters. Your reason would sound most obvious for somebody who is merely looking for a means to raise his/her GPA/sGPA. On the other hand, you may want to do a "thesis" masters to show the schools how committed you are to something and, as it was said earlier, that you have practical experience in a "real world" environment outside of mere cognitive learning. Regardless, I think that a masters definitely helped my chances and can help anyones if they're successful in it. For me, more than anything, I think that my masters substantiated an outrageous positive trend in my undergrad. Why didn't I do a no thesis masters? Well, I was already familiar with the research, I don't mind countless hours of writing, and for personal achievement purposes; I wanted to be a primary author on a paper for a change. Good luck to all of you!

 

[denticus]

I hear you. My motivation is to bolster the numbers part of my application - I certainly didn't hide that fact when I applied to a few master's programs. I didn't think that I needed a thesis to show my understanding of scientific research, because I had two collaborating research PI's write letters on my behalf. There are many ways to show dedication and the ability to excel aside from thesis work (was my rationale). A lot of my extracurriculars are skills that I have practiced for 8.5 to 20 years, and are skillsets, that though not relevant to dentistry, show commitment. I'm no virtuoso, but I'm very proficient at a few things, and that's really what I'm trying to convey with a master's degree.

Good luck!, I'm sure that you'll find how helpful a masters will be with your application, despite what others may say.

 

[jigabodo]

I hear you. My motivation is to bolster the numbers part of my application - I certainly didn't hide that fact when I applied to a few master's programs. I didn't think that I needed a thesis to show my understanding of scientific research, because I had two collaborating research PI's write letters on my behalf. There are many ways to show dedication and the ability to excel aside from thesis work (was my rationale). A lot of my extracurriculars are skills that I have practiced for 8.5 to 20 years, and are skillsets, that though not relevant to dentistry, show commitment. I'm no virtuoso, but I'm very proficient at a few things, and that's really what I'm trying to convey with a master's degree.

Strange. I still find it hard to believe that you have no interviews. My GPA is also in the low 3s, but your EC is like 10x better than mine. I would certainly pick you for an interview if I was an adcom. I was under the impression that this application process is not just a number's game, but situation like this makes me want to believe otherwise.

With respect with Masters, I just find it kinda pointless seeing how you have years of intense research already under your belt. The fact that you will be taking upperdivision sci courses might be a plus, but didnt you do that in your postbac?

 

[rose786]

Strange. I still find it hard to believe that you have no interviews. My GPA is also in the low 3s, but your EC is like 10x better than mine. I would certainly pick you for an interview if I was an adcom. I was under the impression that this application process is not just a number's game, but situation like this makes me want to believe otherwise.

I second this. Montserrat, I just saw your predent profile and I'm amazed and alarmed that not only have you not recieved an interview but have actually gotten rejections. That doesn't seem right and it scares me because my undergrad grades are craptastic as well.

 

[Montserrat]

I was expecting it to be difficult and I'm disappointed, though not completely surprised. If someone looked at my postbacc grades, they probably saw a lot of improvement, but I don't think they realize that my professors for physiology and immunobio are also the medical school professors for those topics. Given the curve in those courses, I had to beat a lot of people to earn a high A. I get the impression that my application got dogpiled with everyone else with ~ a 3 or below a 3, and they probably didn't look at much of my application beyond the initial screening. I'm hoping a master's will provide a bit of a lift - beyond that, all I can do now is nail my DAT retake at the end of the week.

Strange. I still find it hard to believe that you have no interviews. My GPA is also in the low 3s, but your EC is like 10x better than mine. I would certainly pick you for an interview if I was an adcom. I was under the impression that this application process is not just a number's game, but situation like this makes me want to believe otherwise.

With respect with Masters, I just find it kinda pointless seeing how you have years of intense research already under your belt. The fact that you will be taking upperdivision sci courses might be a plus, but didnt you do that in your postbac?

 

[JRMDR]

I think so, work your but off and your stats look good!