Low GPA, how high of an MCAT?

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Schaden Freud said:
No MCAT will allow you to recover from a 3.01. You must do a post-bacc.

If you've already completed your prereq courses with high grades *in those classes* but your GPA is uncompetitive because of bad work in liberal arts GE courses, will a second Bachelor's Degree be of any help?

When I graduate, I will have a BA in Biological Sciences, so I'll already have the prereq courses.
 
Law2Doc said:
First, it isn't reasonable to blame a 2.7 or similarly low average on bastard professors -- there would have to be a lot of them, and other people at the school are likely getting through. Second, anecdotal evidence of a person, or even a hundred people who got in with a low GPA and high MCAT is not evidence of a formulaic approach.

offering comfort, not analysis. No one is guaranteed a spot in med. school regardless of their stats, ec's, etc etc etc. I used that example as an instance, an inkling of hope in all of this. And btw, some bastards do contribute to grades....I have done better in some of my science coursework compared to a few humanities classes because of this.
There is no formula for getting into medical school period. I would try osteopathic first;
 
Before I opened this thread, I thought "37" so Kevster and I are on the same page. 😀

One problem I see for the OP is a declining gpa over time. You should have a strong showing for at least a year (~30 credits) of full time academic work most recently to show that you've got your stuff together and can keep things together in med school. For some applicants, this is a good reason for a post-bach, SMP or some other master's degree.

Hey there LizzyM! This post was about two years ago now, but I just wanted to throw in that I now have a 38R MCAT and am starting Georgetown's SMP this Fall!

So thanks for the advice, and hopefully the fact that I got one point above the number you were thinking will be enough to help me 😉 Thanks to everyone else too!
 
Hey there LizzyM! This post was about two years ago now, but I just wanted to throw in that I now have a 38R MCAT and am starting Georgetown's SMP this Fall!

So thanks for the advice, and hopefully the fact that I got one point above the number you were thinking will be enough to help me 😉 Thanks to everyone else too!


Hey best of luck at Georgetown's SMP. We have fairly similar numbers, and i found that my extensive clinical and leadership experiences were what really got my foot in the door, so if you have any time while you're in the SMP or over summers, that is what i'd bulk up on if i were you.
 
Hey there LizzyM! This post was about two years ago now, but I just wanted to throw in that I now have a 38R MCAT and am starting Georgetown's SMP this Fall!

So thanks for the advice, and hopefully the fact that I got one point above the number you were thinking will be enough to help me 😉 Thanks to everyone else too!

So aren't you at least going to try to get in without SMP first? If your cGPA is still 3.0, your LizzyM score is 68, which makes you competitive at about half US med schools, including Georgetown medschool. I don't know how is the rest of your application though.
 
So aren't you at least going to try to get in without SMP first? If your cGPA is still 3.0, your LizzyM score is 68, which makes you competitive at about half US med schools, including Georgetown medschool. I don't know how is the rest of your application though.

I think my cGPA is around 3.19 now... I have some volunteer/shadowing etc, but I just wasn't under the impression that I would stand a huge shot with out some more recent academic work... I tought I read that the LizzyM score really only works when you are around the averages, but not with the disparate scores... I dunno, just want to do all I can to get into Medical school!
 
I think my cGPA is around 3.19 now... I have some volunteer/shadowing etc, but I just wasn't under the impression that I would stand a huge shot with out some more recent academic work... I tought I read that the LizzyM score really only works when you are around the averages, but not with the disparate scores... I dunno, just want to do all I can to get into Medical school!

Yeah, I might be in the same situation as you, except that I still have about two years of undergrad to show an upward trend. Even then will still end up somewhere around your GPA, but I heard people saying that showing two years steady GPA (close to 4.0) is just like doing an SMP. Do you have an upward trend? If I pull it off, I will be applying right after undergrad since SMP is so expensive.

A few questions: how are you going to afford SMP at GTW? Will you be working? Will parents help?

Also, any MCAT tips (e.g., what companies did you use)?

I hope you keep us posted how the SMP goes.
 
Yeah, I might be in the same situation as you, except that I still have about two years of undergrad to show an upward trend. Even then will still end up somewhere around your GPA, but I heard people saying that showing two years steady GPA (close to 4.0) is just like doing an SMP. Do you have an upward trend? If I pull it off, I will be applying right after undergrad since SMP is so expensive.

A few questions: how are you going to afford SMP at GTW? Will you be working? Will parents help?

Also, any MCAT tips (e.g., what companies did you use)?

I hope you keep us posted how the SMP goes.

I don't have an upward trend, unfortunately... but I did graduate 3 years ago, but I am using the SMP to show my current academic abilities... SMP is expensive but my wife and I view it as an investment... It will take a while to pay off the loans later, but at least I'll be in a career I love... My wife will be working while I am in the program which will help, but the rest is in loans... I am not going to work because I know how it important is that I do really well in the program...

As far as the MCAT goes, I posted in the 30+ forum with some details, but quickly I'd recommend EK and Kaplan together... seemed that between the two you get a much better picture than just one of them gives you by itself... PM me if you have any specific questions! I'll definitely be on SDN with updates as the cycle progresses... I'm hoping to get some interviews early in the season, so we'll see!

Keep up the hard work!
 
First, it isn't reasonable to blame a 2.7 or similarly low average on bastard professors -- there would have to be a lot of them, and other people at the school are likely getting through. Second, anecdotal evidence of a person, or even a hundred people who got in with a low GPA and high MCAT is not evidence of a formulaic approach. There are 16,000 people matriculating to med school each year, and so even if you know one or two or ten who bucked the odds, and are convinced that their good MCAT bailed out their bad GPA, that hardly means it is good or reliable advice. In this process you don't try to be the exception to the rule, you try to be the rule, because frankly exceptions don't fare all that well 99% of the time. Finally, bear in mind that adcoms do not look purely at the numbers, and so the fact that you know someone with a low GPA and high MCAT who got in doesn't mean that the numerical combination was the hook that did it for him. His non-numerical stats, ECs, experiences, pull, etc. could have played a greater role than you think and he might have gotten in even with a more modest MCAT showing. I too know people with crummy numerical stats who made it into med school, but their route of entry is not one that the typical applicant could use.
As others in this thread have suggested, if GPA is your weakness, you need to take the time to fix it, and make yourself more competitive. People don't do these upper level course/informal postbacs/SMP programs for their health -- they do them because they can remedy academic records like the OP to get into med school.

Law2Doc speaks gospel. You earn your grades. If someone makes an A in any given class then you could have, too.
 
Yeah, I might be in the same situation as you, except that I still have about two years of undergrad to show an upward trend. Even then will still end up somewhere around your GPA, but I heard people saying that showing two years steady GPA (close to 4.0) is just like doing an SMP. Do you have an upward trend? If I pull it off, I will be applying right after undergrad since SMP is so expensive.

A few questions: how are you going to afford SMP at GTW? Will you be working? Will parents help?

Also, any MCAT tips (e.g., what companies did you use)?

I hope you keep us posted how the SMP goes.

I'm in a more similar situation to you, i had an awful GPA the first two years, and much higher the second two years (3.85 junior, 3.92 senior). Schools really understood that, becuase i didn't decide i wanted to go into medicine until junior year.
 
Everything I've read thus far on this thread seems to make a lot of sense. Especially in terms of gauging yourself as a competitive candidate... However, I come to you with a quandary. I just took the MCAT and I'm pretty much lingering around the stats that have been thrown around (3.3 GPA, 3.4 BCPM, and 34R MCAT). But a friend of mine was telling me HIS stats (2.3 UGPA, 2.5 UBCPM, but 3.98 post bacc and a 32O) Even with his post bacc grades being averaged in, his GPA comes out to something like a 3.1-3.2 in both overall and BCPM. What can he do? Should I advise him to get a masters in something? Would more courses help? This is specifically in reference to MD school applications. He kind of accepts the fact that he may have to go D.O.... NOT THAT ANYTHING, AND I MEAN ANYTHING IS WRONG WITH A DO PROGRAM...
 
Everything I've read thus far on this thread seems to make a lot of sense. Especially in terms of gauging yourself as a competitive candidate... However, I come to you with a quandary. I just took the MCAT and I'm pretty much lingering around the stats that have been thrown around (3.3 GPA, 3.4 BCPM, and 34R MCAT). But a friend of mine was telling me HIS stats (2.3 UGPA, 2.5 UBCPM, but 3.98 post bacc and a 32O) Even with his post bacc grades being averaged in, his GPA comes out to something like a 3.1-3.2 in both overall and BCPM. What can he do? Should I advise him to get a masters in something? Would more courses help? This is specifically in reference to MD school applications. He kind of accepts the fact that he may have to go D.O.... NOT THAT ANYTHING, AND I MEAN ANYTHING IS WRONG WITH A DO PROGRAM...

It depends what his undergrad was in, how long ago it was, and how much of his post-bac is a "new leaf". Someone in a crazy major at a school with no grade inflation -- the undergrad gpa might be brushed off as no biggie and the focus will be on comparing the applicant's performance in o-chem, etc as a post-bac with the performance of studnents who took the same courses at undergrads.

Are there second chances for people who squandered 4 years of college? Is there room in medical school for "broken arrows"? Some schools say "yes".
 
It depends what his undergrad was in, how long ago it was, and how much of his post-bac is a "new leaf". Someone in a crazy major at a school with no grade inflation -- the undergrad gpa might be brushed off as no biggie and the focus will be on comparing the applicant's performance in o-chem, etc as a post-bac with the performance of studnents who took the same courses at undergrads.

Are there second chances for people who squandered 4 years of college? Is there room in medical school for "broken arrows"? Some schools say "yes".

Thanks for the reply! I appreciate that perspective. In fact, it makes me think more about my own personal statement and only reinforces the concept that it gives you an opportunity to explain or validate things that you may have gone through to get yourself to where you are. Thanks again.
 
It depends what his undergrad was in, how long ago it was, and how much of his post-bac is a "new leaf". Someone in a crazy major at a school with no grade inflation -- the undergrad gpa might be brushed off as no biggie and the focus will be on comparing the applicant's performance in o-chem, etc as a post-bac with the performance of studnents who took the same courses at undergrads.

Are there second chances for people who squandered 4 years of college? Is there room in medical school for "broken arrows"? Some schools say "yes".

👍 And it is those schools that are worth attending IMHO.
 
i noticed earlier on in this thread people were talking about informal post-bacs. i assue you just went to a 4 year college and took some bio/chem/physics classes?

i was a bio major and i took a lot of upper div bio classes already. do i retake the ones i did bad in? =/
 
There's no point to 'shooting for' an MCAT score. Hope doesn't affect your score. If we could do that, then everyone would have a 45 MCAT and beggars would ride.

You should always work your hardest and do your best, regardless of GPA.

Harsh much? I disagree with your point of view. When he is asking for a score to "shoot" for he is just asking for help setting a goal for himself. You don't think making goals in life helps your performance at all? Of course it does, at least for the goal setter, and it can be especially effective on tests. Even the MCAT...
 
Harsh much? I disagree with your point of view. When he is asking for a score to "shoot" for he is just asking for help setting a goal for himself. You don't think making goals in life helps your performance at all? Of course it does, at least for the goal setter, and it can be especially effective on tests. Even the MCAT...

Despite his advice I did set a goal for myself, and then passed it by two points... So I agree, goal setting is really helpful!
 
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