Low or Competitive? GPA thread for ppl stuck between 3.2-3.4 with 30+MCATs

[surfstarj]

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That just doesn't make sense. Only the more motivated and "better" students get into grad school in the first place...how are there many "lower quality" students?

Anywhere you go, there's always a spectrum of student quality. Sure will be at med school even though they've admitted only highly qualified students in the first place. Simplified example. 20 students. Bottom 50% graduate, get jobs. There are 10 students who go on to graduate school. The level of these 10 still ranges, it's just a narrower range.
Comprendes? I really didn't think I needed to spell out every detail, but I guess that was an incorrect assumption.


Also, I told you my grad science courses were uncurved. So you can't tell how many people got As, Bs...as many as scored in the 80-89% range for a B, 90-100 for an A...

 

[Bibbed]

Load of sh1t. Like armybound said, a lot of times you take undergrad classes with extra requirements, meaning you take the same tests as a 400-level class and then have an extra research or paper requirement. If you take the same test, the grading is the same. Honestly, does it make sense to you, logically, that a grad student would get MORE leeway on the same test as an undergrad. I didn't think so.

None of my friends in graduate school, take any courses (or tests for that matter) with undergrads. I can't really speak to that.

 

[lucybug]

I have been taking post-bac. courses for awhile now to help my horrible undergraduate gpa. I am in a situation where I am running out of undergraduate courses (relevant ones) to take therefore I have started to take more graduate level courses. My science gpa is at 3.2 now and I am just going to give it a shot and apply this year. Additionally I will be applying to DO schools.

Recommended Graduate Courses
- Advanced Organic Chemistry (Med Schools eat this up- especially if you organic I and II grades weren't great)
- Most Biochemistry Graduate level courses

Best of luck to you all this year!

 

[Bibbed]

Comprendes? I really didn't think I needed to spell out every detail, but I guess that was an incorrect assumption.

No need to resort to personal attacks. If you're so correct about graduate schools not being graded easier, then get out there and tell the masses because no one else seems to think so.

I just e-mailed 10ish friends and asked the unbiased question of whether graduate course grading was harder, the same, or easier than undergraduate grading. All of those who responded said easier. It's not just the opinion of two people, it's public perception.

 

[armybound]

The adcoms who post here have made the same comments about grad grades being higher, on average, thus carrying less weight...not sure if it was LizzyM or not, but at least one of them has commented on it.

It may have been said in the context of "low graduate GPAs" being a real red flag, low being something south of 3.5...certainly a low GPA from an SMP is the kiss of death...

oh I know, I've had this exact same discussion with Lizzy. she's free to run her admissions committee however she wants--at the end of the day, she's still wrong when she says that grad students are just given higher grades. yes, grad students do have higher GPAs, but it's for those reasons we already discussed, like how you're not allowed to make a C, so you work hard to get a B or A.

None of my friends in graduate school, take any courses (or tests for that matter) with undergrads. I can't really speak to that.

I only have a sample size of 2 schools, but they're names you'd recognize as being quality schools, and graduate students from both often take undergraduate classes. And at both, they're required to make at least a B, and they're not given special grading for being graduate students.

 

[surfstarj]

None of my friends in graduate school, take any courses (or tests for that matter) with undergrads. I can't really speak to that.

It's pretty common, actually.

 

[flip26]

Anywhere you go, there's always a spectrum of student quality. Sure will be at med school even though they've admitted only highly qualified students in the first place. Simplified example. 20 students. Bottom 50% graduate, get jobs. There are 10 students who go on to graduate school. The level of these 10 still ranges, it's just a narrower range.
Comprendes? I really didn't think I needed to spell out every detail, but I guess that was an incorrect assumption.


Also, I told you my grad science courses were uncurved. So you can't tell how many people got As, Bs...as many as scored in the 80-89% range for a B, 90-100 for an A...

Dude, you got a real chip on your shoulder over this. Ask LizzyM or one of the other adcoms their opinion, and how their schools view this issue.

The bottom line is that graduate school grades are not given much weight in the med school admissions process for "whatever" reasons med school adcoms have - right or wrong. If adcoms are misinformed about how tough it is to make good grades in grad school, i would think that they would have been set straight on this by now...

 

[armybound]

Dude, you got a real chip on your shoulder over this. Ask LizzyM or one of the other adcoms their opinion, and how their schools view this issue.

The bottom line is that graduate school grades are not given much weight in the med school admissions process for "whatever" reasons med school adcoms have - right or wrong. If adcoms are misinformed about how tough it is to make good grades in grad school, i would think that they would have been set straight on this by now...

I don't think anyone here will disagree that some schools aren't that impressed with graduate grades.. I know that some schools do care a lot about my master's GPA, and I know that some don't really care at all.

What we really get upset about is people telling us that we're given good grades or grading is easy in graduate school or our grades are inflated. It's absolutely not true and it's a ridiculous lie to spread.

 

[surfstarj]

No need to resort to personal attacks. If you're so correct about graduate schools not being graded easier, then get out there and tell the masses because no one else seems to think so.

I just e-mailed 10ish friends and asked the unbiased question of whether graduate course grading was harder, the same, or easier than undergraduate grading. All of those who responded said easier. It's not just the opinion of two people, it's public perception.

'

You're right. 10 people definitely account for every school in the country. And in the end, i don't care what your "masses" think, I've already gotten in and if it were not for my 4.0 grad GPA, i would not have. Even if you want to hold onto the idea that EVERY grad school is easier than EVERY undergrad school, getting As will never hurt your application and is thus....A GOOD IDEA.

 

[flip26]

oh I know, I've had this exact same discussion with Lizzy. she's free to run her admissions committee however she wants--at the end of the day, she's still wrong when she says that grad students are just given higher grades. yes, grad students do have higher GPAs, but it's for those reasons we already discussed, like how you're not allowed to make a C, so you work hard to get a B or A.

I only have a sample size of 2 schools, but they're names you'd recognize as being quality schools, and graduate students from both often take undergraduate classes. And at both, they're required to make at least a B, and they're not given special grading for being graduate students.

Umm, it is not just LizzyM who has this opinion. This is the typical adcom view at most if not all med schools.

There must be some basis in fact for this opinion. I don't have access to any grading records from any grad school, but I find it hard to believe that as a grad student someone is not aware that the bulk of the grades are in the A to C range, with almost none given below that, thus the grade point averages are higher in grad school since there are very few 2s given, and virtually no 1s or 0s...in grad school, a "B" is the fat part of the bell curve. In tough undergrads, the fat part of the bell curve is a B- or a C...and as you admit (and we have been saying) grad students have higher GPAs, and that is the point...

 

[Bibbed]

I don't think anyone here will disagree that some schools aren't that impressed with graduate grades.. I know that some schools do care a lot about my master's GPA, and I know that some don't really care at all.

What we really get upset about is people telling us that we're given good grades or grading is easy in graduate school or our grades are inflated. It's absolutely not true and it's a ridiculous lie to spread.

No one is implying the grading is flat out easy, just easier than undergrad.

 

[armybound]

Umm, it is not just LizzyM who has this opinion. This is the typical adcom view at most if not all med schools.

There must be some basis in fact for this opinion. I don't have access to any grading records from any grad school, but I find it hard to believe that as a grad student someone is not aware that the bulk of the grades are in the A to C range, with almost none given below that, thus the grade point averages are higher in grad school since there are very few 2s given, and virtually no 1s or 0s...in grad school, a "B" is the fat part of the bell curve. In tough undergrads, the fat part of the bell curve is a B- or a C...

do you know a lot of friends who fail their courses just for the fun of it? is that acceptable to most people who are trying to graduate?

we can't make a C in grad school and graduate. therefore we HAVE to earn a B. notice I said earn, not be given. we earn our grades. the reason we have so many Bs and As is that Cs and below are not acceptable, so we work hard enough not to get them. it's pretty simple.

I'm telling you that I personally have spoken with 3 admissions committees and they've all told me that they found my graduate grades impressive and important. Sure, it's not my ugrad GPA, but they didn't just blow it off and ignore it.

No one is implying the grading is flat out easy, just easier than undergrad.

And they're wrong. Period.

 

[surfstarj]

Umm, it is not just LizzyM who has this opinion. This is the typical adcom view at most if not all med schools.

There must be some basis in fact for this opinion. I don't have access to any grading records from any grad school, but I find it hard to believe that as a grad student someone is not aware that the bulk of the grades are in the A to C range, with almost none given below that, thus the grade point averages are higher in grad school since there are very few 2s given, and virtually no 1s or 0s...in grad school, a "B" is the fat part of the bell curve. In tough undergrads, the fat part of the bell curve is a B- or a C...

Faulty logic. There IS NO BELL CURVE in many graduate schools. They don't curve. You still need a C or better to pass. That's why there are so many A-Cs.

Ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh.

 

[Bibbed]

'

You're right. 10 people definitely account for every school in the country. And in the end, i don't care what your "masses" think, I've already gotten in and if it were not for my 4.0 grad GPA, i would not have. Even if you want to hold onto the idea that EVERY grad school is easier than EVERY undergrad school, getting As will never hurt your application and is thus....A GOOD IDEA.

I never said 10 people was all inclusive and I never said every graduate school and every undergraduate school. Clearly Harvard's graduate courses are more difficult than Howard's undergraduate ones.

And if you don't care what the masses think, then peace out, dude. You're posting continuously on this thread is clearly implying the opposite.

 

[lucybug]

All of my graduate level classes had midterm exams, final exams, papers and presentations. I think it depends on what classes you take. Some of the graduate classes were Pass/Fail classes while others seemed to be more seminar based. You would want to steer clear of those classes if you are looking to make an impression on medicals schools.

 

[Bibbed]

Faulty logic. There IS NO BELL CURVE in many graduate schools. They don't curve. You still need a C or better to pass. That's why there are so many A-Cs.

Ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh.

Exactly, they don't need to curve because the grading is easier (and most people are getting A's and B's). Averages in the 50's and 60's in undergrad courses MUST be curved up because the grading is harder.

 

[armybound]

Exactly, they don't need to curve because the grading is easier (and most people are getting A's and B's). Averages in the 50's and 60's in undergrad courses MUST be curved up because the grading is harder.

You're either trying to piss people off or are extremely dense.

 

[Bibbed]

You're either trying to piss people off or are extremely dense.

I'm not going to go into personal attacks with you. I read your MDApps profile, I could be a d!ck but I'm not even gonna bother. If you wanna get upset and cry about it then you continue to do that. All flip and I have been saying is what the common perception about grad courses is and supporting why that is the common perception.

 

[surfstarj]

No one is implying the grading is flat out easy, just easier than undergrad.

Dude, you need to grow up a little. Making blanket statements about something you have no experience with is a little childish. I'm pretty sure that getting a 4.0 in all my grad classes at a top 3 school had something to do with my acceptances and it wasn't easy. Good luck getting in somewhere.

 

[Perrotfish]

I wouldn´t do the SMP, your GPA is too high and the upward trend clinches it. ADCOMs aren´t idiots, if all of your bad grades were in Freshman year they´re going to see that. Anyway you´ve already missed the deadlines for all of the really good SMPs, and there is absolutely no way you should do a low success rate SMP with your stats, so you should at least try for admission for class of 2009 and, if that doesn´t work out, then MAYBE do an SMP over 2009 for admission in the class of 2010.

 

[Chuckwalla]

I'm skeptical of SMP's. They are super-expensive (about the same as a year at med school), the odds are not great for getting in (50-60%), and they are only useful for the school you did it at. Not to mention the degree is pretty much useless if you do not get in. Sure, you will hear some SMP success stories, but they are a gamble with very high stakes.

You should just apply. The important part is throwing some DO schools in there and being willing to do that. Admissions for both MD and DO schools are going up at alarming pace right now, get in while you can.

 

[flip26]

the reason we have so many Bs and As is that Cs and below are not acceptable, so we work hard enough not to get them. it's pretty simple.

I'm telling you that I personally have spoken with 3 admissions committees and they've all told me that they found my graduate grades impressive and important. Sure, it's not my ugrad GPA, but they didn't just blow it off and ignore it.

And they're wrong. Period.

Point 1: There is another reason there are mostly As and Bs in grad school - because "C" has been set to "fail" thus there are no Ds and Fs...thus GPAs are higher if for no other reason than this.

Point 2: Your grad grades are "impressive," but I am not sure I understand how "important" they were because they evidently have not helped you overcome your UG GPA in med school admissions (assuming your MDApps profile is up to date and you have no acceptances).

Again, the point I was making earlier in the thread is that grad GPAs carry little weight in the med school admissions process UNLESS they are low, and then they can be fatal...

I wish you well on your waitlists and hope you get good news soon...

 

[Perrotfish]

I'm skeptical of SMP's. They are super-expensive (about the same as a year at med school), the odds are not great for getting in (50-60%), and they are only useful for the school you did it at

The odds for top SMPs are all greater than 80%. Only a couple are "only good for the school you did it at", and generally those have greater than 90% linkages to that school. The majority of SMPs, like Georgetown, Drexel, and Tufts, are designed to get you into OTHER medical schools, and have very high success rates.

They´re not right for this poster, and they are super expensive (with a few exceptions), but they´re not as bad as you´re making them out to be.

 

[Bibbed]

Dude, you need to grow up a little. Making blanket statements about something you have no experience with is a little childish. I'm pretty sure that getting a 4.0 in all my grad classes at a top 3 school had something to do with my acceptances and it wasn't easy. Good luck getting in somewhere.

Don't judge me, you don't know the first thing about me. From the beginning, we've been saying that it's public perception, yet you continue to act like I'm the only one saying it. Also, I don't remember anyone saying a great graduate GPA wouldn't help your application.

 

[armybound]

I'm not going to go into personal attacks with you. I read your MDApps profile, I could be a d!ck but I'm not even gonna bother. If you wanna get upset and cry about it then you continue to do that. All flip and I have been saying is what the common perception about grad courses is and supporting why that is the common perception.

It has nothing to do with personal attacks. It has everything to do with you insulting everyone here who has experience with graduate school by telling us that we don't even know how difficult our courses were, or how we were given good grades.

If you want to say "I think the common perception among admissions committees is that grad school grades aren't taken very seriously," then go ahead. Do you have personal experience with that, too, other than LizzyM? Because, again, you're talking to a former graduate student who DOES have experience contradictory to what you're saying. The fact that you continue to argue with me about something that I have personal experience with and you don't only leads me to believe what I just said.

As far as my mdapps, trust me, there's nothing you can say about it that hasn't been said before. I know where my weaknesses are and where my strengths are. Apparently the admissions directors that I've spoken to don't think my application is as horrible as you think.

Bottom line here is you should remember to separate facts and opinions.

 

[flip26]

I'm skeptical of SMP's. They are super-expensive (about the same as a year at med school), the odds are not great for getting in (50-60%), and they are only useful for the school you did it at. Not to mention the degree is pretty much useless if you do not get in. Sure, you will hear some SMP success stories, but they are a gamble with very high stakes.

You should just apply. The important part is throwing some DO schools in there and being willing to do that. Admissions for both MD and DO schools are going up at alarming pace right now, get in while you can.

SMPs are the avenue of last choice, for sure. This is for people who have not gotten in anywhere due to their low grades.

Therefore, whatever the percentage of success for SMP grads (you cite 50 - 60 percent), that beats the snot out of 0%...

 

[Bibbed]

Bottom line here is you should remember to separate facts and opinions.

Thanks for that clarification, because for a second there I forgot that everything you're saying is based on your personal opinion.

And I don't think your application is horrible, it's quite good.

 

[armybound]

Point 1: There is another reason there are mostly As and Bs in grad school - because "C" has been set to "fail" thus there are no Ds and Fs...thus GPAs are higher if for no other reason than this.

Point 2: Your grad grades are "impressive," but I am not sure I understand how "important" they were because they evidently have not helped you overcome your UG GPA in med school admissions (assuming your MDApps profile is up to date and you have no acceptances).

Again, the point I was making earlier in the thread is that grad GPAs carry little weight in the med school admissions process UNLESS they are low, and then they can be fatal...

I wish you well on your waitlists and hope you get good news soon...

Point 1: I don't get your point here. No one will argue with you that graduate school GPAs are higher than undergrad. I've explained 3 or 4 times why this is the case so far, yet you guys seem to keep thinking it's because professors choose to give us higher grades. That's not the case.

2. I can guarantee you that my graduate GPA has helped me tremendously. I spoke with a Dean of admissions just last week who told me that the combination of my graduate GPA and MCAT leads him to believe that I absolutely can handle medical school coursework. He specifically noted that I did well in graduate science courses and that it speaks well of my ability. He never once said that about my ugrad grades, for obvious reasons. You can also read my mdapps and see that there were other reasons besides my GPA for not getting accepted this year.

 

[armybound]

Thanks for that clarification, because for a second there I forgot that everything you're saying is based on your personal opinion.

And I don't think your application is horrible, it's quite good.

How is my personal experience "opinion"?

 

[surfstarj]

Don't judge me, you don't know the first thing about me. From the beginning, we've been saying that it's public perception, yet you continue to act like I'm the only one saying it. Also, I don't remember anyone saying a great graduate GPA wouldn't help your application.

I know a lot of people like you who generalize one person's comments to be representative of everyone's opinion. You can't give advice on something you have no authoritative position on and therefore you should not have advised against grad schools in the first place. See...we shouldn't even be having this conversation because you're out of your league. Give advice on things you actually KNOW about. Thanks.

 

[armybound]

By the way, we should all take a step back here and take a few deep breaths.

This conversation seems to be getting a bit heated and it's not fair to the OP to derail this thread so much.

I'm happy to continue the discussion, let's just do so civilly, and not forget to keep the conversation on track.

 

[Bibbed]

I know a lot of people like you who generalize one person's comments to be representative of everyone's opinion. You can't give advice on something you have no authoritative position on and therefore you should not have advised against grad schools in the first place. See...we shouldn't even be having this conversation because you're out of your league. Give advice on things you actually KNOW about. Thanks.

Oh please. If everyone had to walk a mile in someone else's shoes to comment on their situation, then the world would be a pretty silent place. For starters, the whole journalism industry would be out of business. I'm basing my arguments on facts about grade distributions and what I've heard from friends in graduate school. Also, what I've been told by advisers and AdCom members. If you two want to disagree with me that's fine, but don't act like I'm unqualified for this argument, I have plenty of bullets in my gun.

 

[Bibbed]

How is my personal experience "opinion"?

If we're both standing outside in the rain, you may think it's raining hard, but I may think it's raining lightly. It's all personal perception.

With that said, and in regards to your last post armybound, I'm ending my tenure in this thread. I've got a research paper to write and some BS experiments to finish in the lab today. And both of you have great graduate GPAs, and I honestly believe that they will help you get into medical school (your's already has in your case, surfstarj). Best of luck guys.

 

[flip26]

Point 1: I don't get your point here. No one will argue with you that graduate school GPAs are higher than undergrad. I've explained 3 or 4 times why this is the case so far, yet you guys seem to keep thinking it's because professors choose to give us higher grades. That's not the case.

Simple math. If a prof only gives out As, Bs, and Cs, then GPAs will be higher on average with no Ds and Fs dragging down the quality points...

In grad school, "C" is fail and thus the proxy for Ds and Fs. But the "C" gets 2 quality points...thus GPAs are higher on average without the low QPs from Ds and Fs dragging the class average GPAs down further.

 

[armybound]

Simple math. If a prof only gives out As, Bs, and Cs, then GPAs will be higher on average with no Ds and Fs dragging down the quality points...

In grad school, "C" is fail and thus the proxy for Ds and Fs. But the "C" gets 2 quality points...thus GPAs are higher on average without the low QPs from Ds and Fs dragging the class average GPAs down further.

Trust me, professors don't only give out As, Bs, and Cs in grad school. I have had classmates earn a D.

The point makes even less sense when you take into consideration the fact that graduate students often take undergraduate courses.. with undergraduates.. and are graded on the same scale.

It's simply impossible for our grading scale to be easier or for our grades to be inflated relative to undergrads when we take the SAME CLASS with the SAME TESTS on the same grading scale.

 

[flip26]

I can guarantee you that my graduate GPA has helped me tremendously. I spoke with a Dean of admissions just last week who told me that the combination of my graduate GPA and MCAT leads him to believe that I absolutely can handle medical school coursework. He specifically noted that I did well in graduate science courses and that it speaks well of my ability. He never once said that about my ugrad grades, for obvious reasons. You can also read my mdapps and see that there were other reasons besides my GPA for not getting accepted this year.

I believe you that your grad GPA has helped you at at least a couple of schools. I hope you get off a waitlist soon.

 

[surfstarj]

Oh please. If everyone had to walk a mile in someone else's shoes to comment on their situation, then the world would be a pretty silent place. For starters, the whole journalism industry would be out of business.

The world would be a better place.

I have plenty of bullets in my gun.

A few guesses as to what I'd like to tell you to do with the gun.

I know at least 2 schools adcoms that disagree with you so I guess we'll just have to leave it there for the OPs sake. Good luck charming some adcoms next year...

 

[bobdogsam43]

can we get a show of hands here for the people currently in grad school (not post-bacc or SMP) that have posted in this thread...


i'm gonna say its one or two people............if that's all there is then why are there non grad school peeps giving their opinions about grad school grading........you aren't in grad school and what you know is second/third/fourth hand knowledge. grad school and UG are quite different.....

 

[djherse]

So here is another question. I am graduating this week, if i was to just take extra classes to bring my GPA up would they still be considered graduate classes or no? would It make sense to do this say at another institution then my undergrad institution? say some classes at brown (i am in RI)? or should i retake the few classes I got Cs in this fall at my undergrad institution then apply to lower tier schools.

 

[armybound]

So here is another question. I am graduating this week, if i was to just take extra classes to bring my GPA up would they still be considered graduate classes or no? would It make sense to do this say at another institution then my undergrad institution? say some classes at brown (i am in RI)? or should i retake the few classes I got Cs in this fall at my undergrad institution then apply to lower tier schools.

if you're just taking classes and not seeking a degree, it will be considered post-bac coursework, and it will help your undergrad GPA.

you can take the courses wherever you want, I'd just be wary of taking them at a community college, since that may look like you're just padding your GPA.

I personally don't think you should retake C courses because I think it's a better statement if you take new classes and get an A instead of retaking a course and getting an A.

 

[Daydreamer2008]

So here is another question. I am graduating this week, if i was to just take extra classes to bring my GPA up would they still be considered graduate classes or no? would It make sense to do this say at another institution then my undergrad institution? say some classes at brown (i am in RI)? or should i retake the few classes I got Cs in this fall at my undergrad institution then apply to lower tier schools.

it's not to your advantage to retake classes. AdComs know that you should of course do better if you see the material twice. I would take a few more upper div science courses (at least two in one session) and get A's in them.
and don't take it at a community college. take it at a 4 year institution (through an extension program maybe).

 

[flip26]

So here is another question. I am graduating this week, if i was to just take extra classes to bring my GPA up would they still be considered graduate classes or no? would It make sense to do this say at another institution then my undergrad institution? say some classes at brown (i am in RI)? or should i retake the few classes I got Cs in this fall at my undergrad institution then apply to lower tier schools.

Post bacc classes apply to your UG GPA.

You really need to sit down and come up with a plan. Brown sounds like an unlikely (and expensive) place to enroll part time. Usually your own undergrad makes the most sense. Not so sure about retaking Cs (not usually a great idea). The usual post bacc plan is to take additional upper level science classes to raise your GPA, not to retake Cs...

Figure out how many credit hours of A you would need to earn to raise your GPA to, say, a 3.5...what is your BCPM GPA? It, too, should be north of 3.5, the higher, the better...just taking one or two classes is not going to make a dent in your GPA...and you need to make an A in every class you take, otherwise you GPA will not budge...

 

[djherse]

never calculated my BCPM... but should be about the same as GPA. Problem with taking upper level science classes at my institution is I have already taken a majority of what they offer its a small state school so upper level class selection is small. There are also 3 manuscripts in prep of research 1 i am first author on if this helps as well. Would need A's in 7 4credit classes to bring up to 3.5+

 

[armybound]

publications definitely do help.

you might be in it for the long haul. i say to go ahead and apply and see what happens. you never know, your GPA may not be as big of a problem as you think it is.

 

[djherse]

BCPM right now is a 3.43. I have no problem applying to lower tier schools as long as it wont hurt my ability/opportunity to do research in the future

 

[armybound]

nah, definitely not. give it a try! but i would also recommend actively working on your GPA, just in case it doesn't work out this year

 

[Chuckwalla]

BCPM right now is a 3.43. I have no problem applying to lower tier schools as long as it wont hurt my ability/opportunity to do research in the future

You should be focused on getting into med school PERIOD. You do not have any room to be picky.

 

[Chuckwalla]

SMPs are the avenue of last choice, for sure. This is for people who have not gotten in anywhere due to their low grades.

Therefore, whatever the percentage of success for SMP grads (you cite 50 - 60 percent), that beats the snot out of 0%...

That is why I said go for a DO school, much better alternative than gambling and get ripped-off by a SMP.

 

[ianian28]

i have right around a 3.0 GPA and a 33 mcat, and i got into an above-average private allopathic school this round. it can be done. and no, i'm not a URM.

i think having published research helped, though how much i have no idea.

 

[flip26]

i have right around a 3.0 GPA and a 33 mcat, and i got into an above-average private allopathic school this round. it can be done. and no, i'm not a URM. i think having published research helped, though how much i have no idea.

What the hell is an "above average" medical school?