Lowering expectations

[PsyWannabe]

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Sorry, that title might be a little misleading. I just wanted some advice from the people that have offered me some great insight in the past. I'm considering, heaven forfend, applying to PsyD programs. This is a change from applying for Clinical PhD programs, which has happened due to my having been rejected twice in a row from a nationwide sample of these programs.

My question is, what can a PsyD do? Is it a strictly hang-up-a-shingle kind of a thing? Would I be able to TA while doing my PsyD? And once I complete my PsyD, would I be able to do research and be a professor? That's my goal, to be a professor and do research in clinical psychology and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to achieve it.

So, that's the main question. Is a PsyD potentially a path to professorship and research? Any advice would be appreciated!!

 

[erg923]

So, that's the main question. Is a PsyD potentially a path to professorship and research? Any advice would be appreciated!!

Generally speaking, no, its not. There are a few well known Psy.D researchers (ie., Andy Saykin), but this is really the exception to the rule.

However, many psy.ds (they ones who are proactive in securing research outlets for themselves) are able to secure clinical post-docs at R-1 schools where they can become part of productive clinical research labs. But in terms of tenure track professor positions...psy.ds are genrally not in the running.

 

[psychmama]

There are certainly psyds out there who do research and also teach (although their teaching is often in more "applied" type courses). From what I've seen though, it's harder to prove yourself as an "academic" when you've got the Psyd. It can be done, but you must work at it and really distinguish yourself from the pack. So a question you may want to ask yourself is why is it, do you think, that you've been rejected twice from Phd programs? is it a lack of research experience or something else? Are you confident you have what it takes to teach or do research at a research-level university? It may be hard to confront this issue now, but I think in the long run it's always best to grapple with the hard questions before making the commitment to a doctoral program.

Good luck. Bye the way, I have a Psyd, so my advice is not coming from a place of anti-Psyd bias.😉

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

However, many psy.ds (they ones who are proactive in securing research outlets for themselves) are able to secure clinical post-docs at R-1 schools where they can become part of productive clinical research labs.

That is what I did.

I think Psy.Ds can still have productive full-time careers in an academia, but you need to go above and beyond to get recognized. I believe I'm the only Psy.D. in the entire medical school, so I'm hoping to make a positive impression on my colleagues.

If you want an academic career, make sure to be productive during your graduate years by publishing and presenting at various conferences. You'll want to have at least a couple of 1st author publications and be on a bunch more publications as a 2nd, 3rd, etc author. It also matters where you publish, with higher impact journals counting for a lot more. Don't expect to get into SCIENCE, but you'll want to get into the important journals of your research area.

It is also important to show an ability to secure grant funding if you want to eventually apply for tenure-track positions. An application with a history of securing significant grants* and/or bringing funding with them will jump to the top of the pile.

*I'll leave it up to the academics to speak to some of the better known sources (NIH, NIDRR, etc), but suffice to say....money talks.

 

[O Gurl]

...And once I complete my PsyD, would I be able to do research and be a professor? That's my goal, to be a professor and do research in clinical psychology and I'm willing to do whatever it takes to achieve it.

So, that's the main question. Is a PsyD potentially a path to professorship and research? Any advice would be appreciated!!

My dissertation committee chair was a PsyD. She was (and still) the PI of her own lab and overseeing two NIH-funded studies. She also taught classes for psychiatry residents in our department of psychiatry. With that being said, she was honestly not a good researcher. She came to mind as I read your post because she took a very similar position as what you described in that she was determined to be an academic researcher despite being unable to gain admittance to a PhD program. While she was able to make it happen (by pursuing a PsyD and an additional master's degree in biostatistics), she has suffered quite a few barriers due to her lack of formal research training. While her position looks impressive, her studies have fundamental flaws and she was not the best research mentor- so much so that another committee member of mine pretty much took over advising duties for my project.

All of that is to say that while I applaud perseverance and determination, I am also a strong believer in accepting certain signs. If the PhD route is not an option, then you should perhaps step back, get a feel for different paths, and adjust your goals.

 

[ltj999]

The above is quite right. Although you can be a high powered researcher with a PsyD it is much more difficult. It’s just not built into the education as much as with a PhD.

For my own personal 2 cents, my undergrad career was very research heavy. Coming out of undergrad with a pub as 2nd author made me think entering a PhD program would be cake. Low and behold, I didn't get in anywhere.

While re-applying I have been working at a psychiatric outpatient center (www.clubhouseofsuffolk.org) and fell in love with my work here. Actually having a case load was something I never experienced before and I'm loving it. Thus, my applications switched almost 180 from last year; I applied to mostly PsyD programs and will be entering a university PsyD program in the fall (one with a heavy research component to boot!). Is research something I would still like to be involved in? Of course, but it’s not my focus for a career. Now that I look back on it, sitting in front of a computer crunching numbers is something I really could not see myself doing, despite my great relationship with research in undergrad. Take advantage of your given circumstances to try things out, you never know where it may lead you...


- Mike