Loyola vs Wayne

[DocKoozmin]

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I'm oos for both, so cost isn't a huge factor.

Wayne:
+ 1.5 year preclinical
+ Very good urban clinical training
+ 98% match list (considering class size this is quite impressive)

- Living in Detroit
- HUGE class size
- Most matches seems to stay in Detroit area
- Not as much name recognition?

Loyola:
+ Liked the feel better on interview day
+ Higher ranked in residency program director list
+ Location
+ More colloquially well known?

- Abysmal Step 1 average (217!)
- 2/2 curriculum, seems lacking on early clinical exposure
- Doesn't post actual match list/percentage - kinda sketchy

 

[MrPooperScooper]

I think you should consider that Loyola isn’t exactly in Chicago while Wayne State is in midtown Detroit. Detroit still has a lot of hurdles to pass through, but midtown/downtown Detroit is very lively and has seen HUGE development within the past 5 years. It is growing at a very rapid pace. Also it’s generaly true for any state school that most students stay in that area for residency as most students have family and support in that area.

 

[communitysjw1996]

Why is the step1 mean so low??

 

[Clouding]

Where is that Step 1 data from?

 

[DocKoozmin]

Where is that Step 1 data from?

I believe it was @TheDataKing who mined the data from US News, but it's posted here.

 

[TheDataKing]

I believe it was @TheDataKing who mined the data from US News, but it's posted here.

yeah that's my spreadsheet haha. I pulled all of the data from USNWR

 

[FatherTime-PhD]

Loyola.

Step 1 is p/f now anyway. Step 2 is probably going to replace it with regards to how PDs will thin out massive application pools. And if you look at @TheDataKing 's chart, they're Step 2 scores are about the same.

I also interviewed at Loyola and liked the community there too. I do agree that the whole match list thing is a bit sketchy, but they are ranked relatively well on the updated PD rankings list. Also, Chicago >>> Detroit. It's not exactly in Chicago, sure, but very accessible via public transportation.

 

[TheDataKing]

The abysmal step 1 score is the direct result of a dean that is now fired... expect that to change. I'd prefer Chicago > Detroit like @The-Medical-Mamba and would personally be happier there but that's something you'll have to decide. Wayne State has had major scandals and issues lately (their neurosurgery residency was shut down which is unprecedented, they've had cheating scandals, etc) and the name recognition outside of MI and the surrounding states isn't the same as Loyola

 

[Clouding]

just a heads up that the match list is publicly available: 2020: Loyola University Chicago: Features

also, historically it seems that loyola scores at or slightly above national average for step1, so that may have been an anomaly (or misreported?). just basing this on what current students have reported on sdn

edit: also, i agree with what the two previous posters said. loyola has a stronger reputation and match list (above) is solid

 

[tomballunger]

step scores are more dependent on the individual, whether step 1 or 2. Go to Loyola, the recent news you see with Wayne is just a small percentage of the bad news- Wayne lost its peds affiliation with Childrens of Michigan and says its building a new peds program , but losing an affiliate to a new school Central Michigan Med school is never a good thing. Central Michigan Med, a newer school, is looking to take up even more/compete with Wayne's detroit rotation sites/Wayne students. Beaumont, a great hospital with great well known programs in ortho, radonc, urology, radiology, used to be a Wayne rotation site a few years ago until Beaumont opened its own med school; Wayne lost Beaumont as a rotation site. The tenet healthcare system that owns the Detroit Med Center, has a very shaky relationship with Wayne which will affect rotation sites and residency for you in the future, especially if you are looking to match into something competitive and are relying on the home program to take you. 98% match rate says nothing because it is the match rate post SOAP (SOAP outcomes tend to be not good, like malignant prelim surgery or malignant primary care programs in a place you have no ties to and if you are looking for a big city, then think small town of 50k). Detroit also has the highest car insurance rate. Prestige of med school matters, despite objections. Below is one piece of solid proof from the gen surg SOAP chat on google docs, where one PD told an applicant outright they ranked the person lower just because of being from a new school, even with step 250s , and general surgery isn't even a top competitive field. I have other pieces of proof too, but the below is good enough. Sure there are some great successes at Wayne like some derm, plastics, neurosurg top IM etc matches, but these individuals were very talented, worked nonstop, also had a little bit of luck, and couldve done just as well or better at better places. Sincerely, 4th year at Wayne. PS, I got to where I wanted too through endless hard work and dealing with messes at Wayne, but looking back, had I gotten an acceptance to a better school my work might've been a little easier