Loyola's 80% acceptance rate seems too good to be true...

[cupcakeeater]

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The percentage of students getting into medical school for Loyola seems way too high. I have no idea how this can be possible considering the national average is less than fifty percent. See the link below

http://luc.edu/undergrad/mobile/media/ProspectiveStudents/PDF/academics/biology.pdf

Do you think this number has been inflated somehow?

Also, does anyone have any idea what UIC's acceptance rate is for getting into medical school?

 

[environmentalhopeful]

Lots of good schools have high numbers like that. My school's acceptance rate is 96% for med school. It generally means that the school is good at weeding people out early on and also showing students who aren't really cut out that there are other alternatives. These schools also tend to have good opportunities for extracurriculars and for advising and also a good reputation and connections with certain med schools (mine sends a ton of people to Temple).

 

[GomersGoToGround]

The link you posted is about their undergraduate biology program.

Specifically, they are discussing the strength of their biology program, and that 80% of their undergraduate biology students make it into medical school (any medical school, MD/DO, etc.)

The national average is below 50%. This school is 80%. Pay attention: the <50% is based upon the total number of applicants, nationwide, not the national average for each college. There are many factors that go into this, as a whole. Schools have varying numbers of applicants. Schools have varying ways of deciding what they consider an "applicant".

The numbers are likely that high due to weeding out the students that do not have a realistic chance. It is also likely that many applicants do not report to the school that they are applying to medical school. They may either be uninformed, or rebellious, but usually the former.

Alternatively, they may wish to be included/supported by the school (getting a committee letter, for example), but due to their application being below the school's "standard", they are tossed out of the "official pre-medical process". Therefore: Does the school include them as an "applicant"? No. Can/do they still apply to medical school, independently, and become a part of the "less-than-fifty-percent AAMC" statistic? Yes.

 

[Mad Jack]

Usually schools attain these numbers by only officially endorsing those that go through their premed advisory process. They will only give you a committee letter if you fit their criteria to apply, and if you fall below that, you aren't included on their "official" record of medical school admissions statistics. There are certainly people that apply from their school that fall outside the official channels, but they don't keep statistics on those people.

 

[cupcakeeater]

Thanks for your responses. I appreciate it. But do you guys think the 80% refers to students who got into medical school on their first try or if its talking about after multiple attempts.

 

[Mad Jack]

Thanks for your responses. I appreciate it. But do you guys think the 80% refers to students who got into medical school on their first try or if its talking about after multiple attempts.

80% likely refers to students that met their PMAC's requirements for a PMAC letter that got into medical school on their first attempt, and likely excludes people that took multiple attempts or those that they refused to endorse that went on to apply and failed or succeeded.

 

[zero0]

Statistics is a fickle mistress. Maybe give them a call and see if that 80% includes Caribbean med schools and new DO programs. If yes, then that's absolutely believable, but who gives a ****. No way they're referring exclusively to US MD programs though.

 

[NoDakDok]

There are MANY private, liberal arts colleges with medical school acceptance rates in the 90% range. Loyola's doesn't even strike me as impressive. There are multiple reasons why this is possible. Certainly this list doesn't encompass all the reasons, but these types of schools are particularly good at:

1. Weeding out unsuccessful applicants previous to application (e.g., extremely difficult pre-requisite courses).
2. Supporting students in reapplication if they are unsuccessful the first time around.
3. Informing students properly about what they need to do previous to medical school.
4. Giving many opportunities to complete the things in 3.
5. Guiding students with the application process and giving them realistic expectations.
6. Have a more affluent constituency. Considering the average medical student's family makes around $120,000, this is beneficial for numerous reasons beyond this post.
7. Many offer committee letters and Health Professions committees, which make the process 'easier' on an individual level (letters are taken care of for you).
8. Statistics are easy to manipulate (e.g., even if their acceptance rate overall is only 50%, maybe their Health Professions committee only considers those individuals they screen for and have a high chance of acceptance to get committee letters and only includes them in the numbers - their numbers would be astronomical then, like upper 90%).
9. Certain schools have tremendous track records with certain medical schools (including their own medical school, for example) and can therefore pump students in those programs with great success.
10. Inherently produce more 'humanities' and 'arts' majors, which statistically have higher rates of acceptance to medical school than biological science majors.

I could keep going, but I believe I've listed enough factors already.

Edit: words

 

[justadream]

As others have said, the number they provide is essentially meaningless.

I think 80% is probably close to what it is at HYPMS (although these schools may claim it to be higher by "manipulating" or being "selective about" their statistics).

 

[GomersGoToGround]

There are MANY private, liberal arts colleges with medical school acceptance rates in the 90% range. Loyola's doesn't even strike me as impressive. There are multiple reasons why this is possible. Certainly this list doesn't encompass all the reasons, but these types of schools are particularly good at:

1. Weeding out unsuccessful applicants previous to application (e.g., extremely difficult pre-requisite courses).
2. Supporting students in reapplication if they are unsuccessful the first time around.
3. Informing students properly about what they need to do previous to medical school.
4. Giving many opportunities to complete the things in 3.
5. Guiding students with the application process and giving them realistic expectations.
6. Have a more affluent constituency. Considering the average medical student's family makes around $120,000, this is beneficial for numerous reasons beyond this post.
7. Many offer committee letters and Health Professions committees, which make the process 'easier' on an individual level (letters are taken care of for you).
8. Statistics are easy to manipulate (e.g., even if their acceptance rate overall is only 50%, maybe their Health Professions committee only considers those individuals they screen for and have a high chance of acceptance to get committee letters and only includes them in the numbers - their numbers would be astronomical then, like upper 90%).
9. Certain schools have tremendous track records with certain medical schools (including their own medical school, for example) and can therefore pump students in those programs with great success.
10. Inherently produce more 'humanities' and 'arts' majors, which statistically have higher rates of acceptance to medical school than science majors.

I could keep going, but I believe I've listed enough factors already.

Edit: words

Data to support this?

 

[NoDakDok]

Data to support this?

https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/factstable18.pdf

I changed the formatting into a new table for you, for ease of interpretation, as the AAMC seems to intentionally make it difficult to interpret:

Edit to add: This data table is for 2014. The top three intermingle every year. The last year I checked (either 2012 or 2013) Humanities had the highest matriculation rate. In the long run, major is relatively insignificant but it is another factor to take into account in the case of schools receiving > 80% acceptance rates to medical schools.

As an aside, in my OP I meant to say "Biological Sciences." I don't know how I managed that mistake since I knew these numbers. Physical Sciences/Mathematics have always had this high matriculation rate, alongside Humanities. I've edited to fix that. Inherent to number 3 on the list, colleges that fit this 'model' (those with extremely high acceptance rates) are more likely to inform their applicants that "Biological Sciences" is not the only way to go, and other majors (e.g., Physical Sciences, Math/Stats, Humanities, Social Sciences) are perfectly fine, all of which have higher acceptance rates than the Biological Sciences.

Hope that's helpful.

 

[WedgeDawg]

As others have said, the number they provide is essentially meaningless.

I think 80% is probably close to what it is at HYPMS (although these schools may claim it to be higher by "manipulating" or being "selective about" their statistics).

HYPS have rates in the 90s (though I know Princeton and Stanford prescreen, or at least they did when I was applying to college). My own school's is about 85 give or take, but we do not prescreen applicants at all or do any number magic. It certainly is possible for strong schools to have high numbers of successful premeds, it's just not the norm, and it varies based on any number of factors.

 

[justadream]

HYPS have rates in the 90s (though I know Princeton and Stanford prescreen, or at least they did when I was applying to college). My own school's is about 85 give or take, but we do not prescreen applicants at all or do any number magic. It certainly is possible for strong schools to have high numbers of successful premeds, it's just not the norm, and it varies based on any number of factors.

I'm talking about non-prescreened values so 90+ for prescreened values would be unsurprising. Your figure of 85% non-prescreened seems reasonable to me for a HYPMS level school.

 

[Kochanie]

Weird, because 80% of Loyola students I know don't make it to medical school.🙄 I go to a school nearby Loyola and I'm sure our numbers aren't even reported to be that high.

 

[GomersGoToGround]

https://www.aamc.org/download/321496/data/factstable18.pdf

I changed the formatting into a new table for you, for ease of interpretation, as the AAMC seems to intentionally make it difficult to interpret:

Edit to add: This data table is for 2014. The top three intermingle every year. The last year I checked (either 2012 or 2013) Humanities had the highest matriculation rate. In the long run, major is relatively insignificant but it is another factor to take into account in the case of schools receiving > 80% acceptance rates to medical schools.

As an aside, in my OP I meant to say "Biological Sciences." I don't know how I managed that mistake since I knew these numbers. Physical Sciences/Mathematics have always had this high matriculation rate, alongside Humanities. I've edited to fix that. Inherent to number 3 on the list, colleges that fit this 'model' (those with extremely high acceptance rates) are more likely to inform their applicants that "Biological Sciences" is not the only way to go, and other majors (e.g., Physical Sciences, Math/Stats, Humanities, Social Sciences) are perfectly fine, all of which have higher acceptance rates than the Biological Sciences.

Hope that's helpful.

Yes, thanks for clearing that up. Your OP implied all sciences together had lower rates than humanities.

Edit: yes, by looking at the data, and averaging all sciences, then you can work with that claim. Of course, how significant it is is another story. Likely a bit, because 34 and 39 bring it down.

 

[Psai]

There's a lot of self selection too. People go into college and think that anyone can be a doctor but then barely scrap by organic chemistry and give it up. Later, they say that doctors aren't anything special and they could have made it into medical school if they had the inclination and btw they have a nurse practitioner that is a doctor too and better than their old doc

 

[Salt Salt]

Yes, thanks for clearing that up. Your OP implied all sciences together had lower rates than humanities.

The thing is, even then, it's true. There are certain sciences ("physical sciences" in this case) that marginally outperformed humanities. But "all sciences together" (by which I assume you mean averaging all the types of science majors) would certainly be well below humanities.

 

[Gibbward]

I went to a liberal arts undergrad and our pre-med advisor said that we had ~ 96% admittance rate to medical schools. However, from what I've observed, this only counts those that went through the committee letter process and were advised that they were strong candidates. If you do the committee interview, they advise that you shouldn't apply, but you apply anyway, I don't think they take you into consideration for the percentage. In my class, we had a 100% acceptance but they really only counted 6 people.

 

[jsquared91]

There are MANY private, liberal arts colleges with medical school acceptance rates in the 90% range. Loyola's doesn't even strike me as impressive. There are multiple reasons why this is possible. Certainly this list doesn't encompass all the reasons, but these types of schools are particularly good at:

1. Weeding out unsuccessful applicants previous to application (e.g., extremely difficult pre-requisite courses).
2. Supporting students in reapplication if they are unsuccessful the first time around.
3. Informing students properly about what they need to do previous to medical school.
4. Giving many opportunities to complete the things in 3.
5. Guiding students with the application process and giving them realistic expectations.
6. Have a more affluent constituency. Considering the average medical student's family makes around $120,000, this is beneficial for numerous reasons beyond this post.
7. Many offer committee letters and Health Professions committees, which make the process 'easier' on an individual level (letters are taken care of for you).
8. Statistics are easy to manipulate (e.g., even if their acceptance rate overall is only 50%, maybe their Health Professions committee only considers those individuals they screen for and have a high chance of acceptance to get committee letters and only includes them in the numbers - their numbers would be astronomical then, like upper 90%).
9. Certain schools have tremendous track records with certain medical schools (including their own medical school, for example) and can therefore pump students in those programs with great success.
10. Inherently produce more 'humanities' and 'arts' majors, which statistically have higher rates of acceptance to medical school than biological science majors.

I could keep going, but I believe I've listed enough factors already.

Edit: words

Yup, i went to one of "those school" and can attest that they do all of these things. My sibling goes to a similar school that also practices all of these things, so it's not unique.

 

[ChrisMack390]

My undergrad institution boasted a 90% rate or something, but really that was just because they were extremely aggressive about who they would give committee letters to. So basically you were not "allowed" to apply unless you had a 3.6+ GPA, 30+ MCAT, and a bunch of stellar experiences.

You could always apply without a committee letter, but if you are applying straight from undergrad that is basically the kiss of death.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

80% likely refers to students that met their PMAC's requirements for a PMAC letter that got into medical school on their first attempt, and likely excludes people that took multiple attempts or those that they refused to endorse that went on to apply and failed or succeeded.

Nice selfie!! 😉

 

[LizzyM]

I suspect that this figure comes from the school counting only those applicants who have a committee letter.... and if I recall some posts here a few years ago, the hoops that school erects for the committee letter mean that only the applicants who really have their stuff together EARLY are going to get a committee letter.

 

[NoDakDok]

I suspect that this figure comes from the school counting only those applicants who have a committee letter.... and if I recall some posts here a few years ago, the hoops that school erects for the committee letter mean that only the applicants who really have their stuff together EARLY are going to get a committee letter.

While this is a factor for some schools with high matriculation rates, it's definitely not the reason for them all. As per my list above, there are more reasons than just selectivity by a committee that create percentages that high. I know undergraduate programs that do not abide by the committee filter who still boast upper 80%/low 90% matriculation rates. These schools fill many of the other reasons on that list - particularly the filtering through coursework, strong premedical advising, and local "feeder" schools have incredible influence on overall acceptance %.

I know undergrads that could boast 100% matriculation rates if they also happened to filter who gets an admissions committee letter.

 

[optimistic3]

Regarding UIC - they do not have a committee/give out committee letters so if they have any statistics, they are self-reported and thus not that accurate.

 

[beachside]

.

 

[LizzyM]

AAMC will do data mining for a fee. It would not be terribly hard to ask the question, "how many applicants identified school x as the school awarding their undergraduate degree and what proportion of that group got at least one offer of admission?"

 

[zzxxzz]

Usually schools attain these numbers by only officially endorsing those that go through their premed advisory process. They will only give you a committee letter if you fit their criteria to apply, and if you fall below that, you aren't included on their "official" record of medical school admissions statistics.

THIS. My original undergrad institution boasted of an insane 98% med school acceptance rate when I was a prospective student.

...of course, they only counted students who went through the advisory process, and they only let students go through the advisory process if they're almost certain you'll get in. Fewer than a quarter of premed students qualify, the rest just apply on their own. If you didn't qualify, you didn't get any interview prep, workshops, proofreading, etc, from the premed committee.

Moral of the story: statistics can lie. Be wary of what you sign up for.