So, I'm only 18 going on 19. I will be graduating next spring with my Bachelors in English and I'm trying to decide if I should go the LPC or MSW route. I live in Texas so I think jobs are easily found for both fields I would love for someone to explain the differences between them both and give me some pointers on which to choose. All I know is that I want to help people and make a decent living. Thoughts ?
In general, the MSW is going to be more versatile. You can not only work as a therapist, but if you need a break from that or decide that is not for you then you can find a more traditional social worker job. Medical social work tends to pay well.
As far as therapists go, in my area, master level therapists are paid the same regardless of their degree, but my understanding is LPC cannot bill Medicare while LCSW can so that could limit job prospects or affect you in private practice if you choose that route later. I'm not sure what your definition of a "decent living" is, but neither degree makes a ton of money working at an agency as a therapist. In fact, I find starting pay to be extremely low for requirement of a master's degree and it does not get substantially better in agencies even with your independent license. We are an underpaid field.
Look at the curriculum for both degrees at schools you are interested in to get a feel of which training would suit you best. Also look at professional organizations, codes of ethics, etc. to get a feel for each field. Social work tends to lean very liberal and is heavily social and economic justice oriented.
Another thing to consider is your state requirements for the LPC or LCSW license and how many supervisors are likely available in your area. For instance my area has a lot of possible LCSW supervisors, but very few LPC supervisors so that would make it more challenging to get required supervision for LPC.
Regardless of what you choose the most important thing is that you complete an accredited program because you cannot seek a license if you don't!
Good luck!
As far as therapists go, in my area, master level therapists are paid the same regardless of their degree, but my understanding is LPC cannot bill Medicare while LCSW can so that could limit job prospects or affect you in private practice if you choose that route later. I'm not sure what your definition of a "decent living" is, but neither degree makes a ton of money working at an agency as a therapist. In fact, I find starting pay to be extremely low for requirement of a master's degree and it does not get substantially better in agencies even with your independent license. We are an underpaid field.
Look at the curriculum for both degrees at schools you are interested in to get a feel of which training would suit you best. Also look at professional organizations, codes of ethics, etc. to get a feel for each field. Social work tends to lean very liberal and is heavily social and economic justice oriented.
Another thing to consider is your state requirements for the LPC or LCSW license and how many supervisors are likely available in your area. For instance my area has a lot of possible LCSW supervisors, but very few LPC supervisors so that would make it more challenging to get required supervision for LPC.
Regardless of what you choose the most important thing is that you complete an accredited program because you cannot seek a license if you don't!
Good luck!
I'm looking into both programs right now too. What is carrying more weight for me is what I will learn. Everything Louise stated is what I have observed too but the master's programs are very different. The MSW focuses more on social work vs psychology/brain where LPC is the reverse. They both learn some of what the other degree learns also but the core classes are different.
I'm not sure I can sit through 2 years of intensive social work as that bores me to tears. But in the end they both see virtually the same clients with the exception of Medicare. The reason for that is the lobbying for LPCs is much younger than MSWs. The MSW lobby group has been in existence for much longer therefore it is larger and stronger. The lobby group for LPCs is growing and may eventually be on par with MSW. This is information I got from several LPCs I know personally because I've been asking around.
I guess it depends on what you want to study and what you want to do in the future (is it important you take Medicare clients). If money is a huge factor for you do a job search for LPCs and MSWs. See which is required more often and income for both. When I did that in my area I found a few more requesting MSWs but about 90% requested either one equally and the pay was similar. I "assume" the reason there was about 10% more requests for MSWs is because it is more widely known. You may find a completely different scenario than I did if you do a job search.
I'm not sure I can sit through 2 years of intensive social work as that bores me to tears. But in the end they both see virtually the same clients with the exception of Medicare. The reason for that is the lobbying for LPCs is much younger than MSWs. The MSW lobby group has been in existence for much longer therefore it is larger and stronger. The lobby group for LPCs is growing and may eventually be on par with MSW. This is information I got from several LPCs I know personally because I've been asking around.
I guess it depends on what you want to study and what you want to do in the future (is it important you take Medicare clients). If money is a huge factor for you do a job search for LPCs and MSWs. See which is required more often and income for both. When I did that in my area I found a few more requesting MSWs but about 90% requested either one equally and the pay was similar. I "assume" the reason there was about 10% more requests for MSWs is because it is more widely known. You may find a completely different scenario than I did if you do a job search.
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In my area (southeastern U.S.), it is common to find LPCs (as well as LMFTs) working alongside social workers in what might typically be considered more social-work oriented jobs in community mental health, higher education, and other areas. So, the LPC route might be more versatile than what one thinks. It may just be that fewer LPCs want to (or are willing to) do that kind of work.
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LPCs have been lobbying since before 2008 to bill Medicare. I'm not sure when that's ever going to be on the plate. I've heard it's been in a bill that was about to pass several times, and then it just never went through. When I was choosing a degree, I decided that it wasn't going to happen before I graduated or anytime soon after I graduated, so I went the LCSW route for therapy.
My goal was to work with individuals that have chronic illnesses. So for me being able to bill Medicare was a huge factor. I was a non traditional student, and my previous work was in a health related area (non-clinical) so I had a heads up on licensing. I was also considering working with veterans as I'm a military spouse, and in my area none of the schools were CACREP accredited, so that meant I would not be able to bill Tricare either. Now, some private practice providers do well without billing those two insurance agencies, so not a big deal to some depending on goals. But since I wanted to specifically work within the health system, I figured I'd be in trouble if I couldn't bill Medicare.
I also work at an academic medical center, and we very few (if any?) LPCs. The social work community just has a serious foothold here. My point is that you need to make sure you evaluate where and who you want to work with and also determine how the state views the different licenses. For example, I would not have the job and opportunities I have now if I had decided to go MA/LPC route. Heck, maybe I'd be making more in private practice hahaha, but I'm happy with the way things turned out.
My goal was to work with individuals that have chronic illnesses. So for me being able to bill Medicare was a huge factor. I was a non traditional student, and my previous work was in a health related area (non-clinical) so I had a heads up on licensing. I was also considering working with veterans as I'm a military spouse, and in my area none of the schools were CACREP accredited, so that meant I would not be able to bill Tricare either. Now, some private practice providers do well without billing those two insurance agencies, so not a big deal to some depending on goals. But since I wanted to specifically work within the health system, I figured I'd be in trouble if I couldn't bill Medicare.
I also work at an academic medical center, and we very few (if any?) LPCs. The social work community just has a serious foothold here. My point is that you need to make sure you evaluate where and who you want to work with and also determine how the state views the different licenses. For example, I would not have the job and opportunities I have now if I had decided to go MA/LPC route. Heck, maybe I'd be making more in private practice hahaha, but I'm happy with the way things turned out.
Really, counseling programs (leading to LPC) and MSW programs lead to a lot of the same career trajectories for most people. I received a MSSW (same as MSW), and I've worked in many of the exact same positions as counseling MAs. However, there are some differences that you may want to keep in mind. I do want to warn you that my experiences/observations are limited to Texas and Louisiana.
First, most people get masters in counseling to become a master's level therapist as a LPC or LMFT or both. (Even if you eventually get PhD's in those fields, you will still be a master's level therapist and be reimbursed by insurance companies as such). Some schools allow students to take the prerequisite courses to pursue both licenses simultaneously, and others want you to pick a track or a separate program (like clinical mental health counseling versus marriage and family therapy). It varies among institutions and also between states. But anyway, my point is this: just like the MSW, you have to apply for a provisional license after you graduate from school. They are called different things in different states, but examples are the Provisional Licensed Professional Counseling (PLPC) or the LMFT-Associate (LMFTA). In order to attain full licensure (LPC/LMFT), you have to pay for and undergo clinical supervision and then pass a test to practice independently and to sign off on various psychosociall assessments which are required to be performed by a person with a full license So, you can't just stay provisionally licensed. You are expected to become fully licensed.
With the MSW, the process towards clinical licensure is very much the same. However, the end game for someone with a MSW isn't necessarily to become clinically licensed. There are some people who go into social work school without intentions of ever becoming therapists. It's considered totally fine never to get licensed beyond the LMSW. A lot of these people find a niche in medical social work, sometimes administrative/policy type jobs , and other types of case manager or even supervisory positions. Of all these types of jobs, I believe that the only one that is exclusively the domain of the LMSW is medical social work. (Correct me if I'm wrong). With the other types of positions, you can have a variety of bachelor's and/or master's degrees. It just kind of depends on your work experience and to what degree you are able to prove yourself. As far as casework - unless you live in an expensive, competitive city, you can get a case manager position with almost any type of bachelor's degree. So even though there are LMSWs who work in this capacity long term, I would not recommend going to social work school only to pursue this path. If you're hoping to move into management, a master's degree may help, but it isn't always necessary. It kind of depends on the exact industry/agency that you're looking into & a MSW may not be your only or even best option. If it's a clinical managerial position, a master's in counseling or MSW are usually considered equally qualified.
This being said, most people who get MSWs do pursue the LCSW because that is where the best and most plentiful career opportunities are.
Another important thing to remember is that, like someone mentioned, only LCSWs can bill Medicare. This is very much about the effectiveness of the social work lobby than anything regarding the superiority the degree/license. LPCs have been trying to get that privilege for a while now, but I don't know when and if that will change. So in some instances, LCSWs are preferred for this reason. It may or may not be a big deal depending on what kind of jobs you want to pursue. I get the impression that the Veteran's Administration prefers LCSWs - maybe for this reason? Not sure...So, even though it's not fair & should change, LPCs are still able to find work and I don't know any that are starving to death due to this obstacle.
One thing about schooling; if you KNOW that you want to become a therapist and not.. a medical social worker, for instance, you might appreciate that in the curriculum itself, counseling master's will teach you more clinical skills in your coursework. MSW programs definitely cover clinical topics (and this also varies among schools & different concentrations within the schools),but usually not as much so. I feel like you do eventually learn everything you need to learn when it's all said and done, but I learned a lot through supervision and work experience. Also, know that some (NOT ALL) clinical mental health master's programs are moving towards the three-year model, while most MSW programs are two years full time.
At the end of the day, they are pretty close, and none of these degrees are ones that you want to pay a lot for. Prestige of the university for any of these licenses REALLY doesn't matter, unlike some other fields. The pay is often crap, especially when you first get out of school, though you can eventually make a decent living. Your decision may actually just come down to COST and convenience. Which programs are around you? Can you do any online? Do some have evening/weekend classes? Which offer the best PRICE? So if it's a MSW from Columbia versus a MA from a CUNY school, trust me when I tell you you're going to want to pick the CUNY master's.
Hope this helps!
First, most people get masters in counseling to become a master's level therapist as a LPC or LMFT or both. (Even if you eventually get PhD's in those fields, you will still be a master's level therapist and be reimbursed by insurance companies as such). Some schools allow students to take the prerequisite courses to pursue both licenses simultaneously, and others want you to pick a track or a separate program (like clinical mental health counseling versus marriage and family therapy). It varies among institutions and also between states. But anyway, my point is this: just like the MSW, you have to apply for a provisional license after you graduate from school. They are called different things in different states, but examples are the Provisional Licensed Professional Counseling (PLPC) or the LMFT-Associate (LMFTA). In order to attain full licensure (LPC/LMFT), you have to pay for and undergo clinical supervision and then pass a test to practice independently and to sign off on various psychosociall assessments which are required to be performed by a person with a full license So, you can't just stay provisionally licensed. You are expected to become fully licensed.
With the MSW, the process towards clinical licensure is very much the same. However, the end game for someone with a MSW isn't necessarily to become clinically licensed. There are some people who go into social work school without intentions of ever becoming therapists. It's considered totally fine never to get licensed beyond the LMSW. A lot of these people find a niche in medical social work, sometimes administrative/policy type jobs , and other types of case manager or even supervisory positions. Of all these types of jobs, I believe that the only one that is exclusively the domain of the LMSW is medical social work. (Correct me if I'm wrong). With the other types of positions, you can have a variety of bachelor's and/or master's degrees. It just kind of depends on your work experience and to what degree you are able to prove yourself. As far as casework - unless you live in an expensive, competitive city, you can get a case manager position with almost any type of bachelor's degree. So even though there are LMSWs who work in this capacity long term, I would not recommend going to social work school only to pursue this path. If you're hoping to move into management, a master's degree may help, but it isn't always necessary. It kind of depends on the exact industry/agency that you're looking into & a MSW may not be your only or even best option. If it's a clinical managerial position, a master's in counseling or MSW are usually considered equally qualified.
This being said, most people who get MSWs do pursue the LCSW because that is where the best and most plentiful career opportunities are.
Another important thing to remember is that, like someone mentioned, only LCSWs can bill Medicare. This is very much about the effectiveness of the social work lobby than anything regarding the superiority the degree/license. LPCs have been trying to get that privilege for a while now, but I don't know when and if that will change. So in some instances, LCSWs are preferred for this reason. It may or may not be a big deal depending on what kind of jobs you want to pursue. I get the impression that the Veteran's Administration prefers LCSWs - maybe for this reason? Not sure...So, even though it's not fair & should change, LPCs are still able to find work and I don't know any that are starving to death due to this obstacle.
One thing about schooling; if you KNOW that you want to become a therapist and not.. a medical social worker, for instance, you might appreciate that in the curriculum itself, counseling master's will teach you more clinical skills in your coursework. MSW programs definitely cover clinical topics (and this also varies among schools & different concentrations within the schools),but usually not as much so. I feel like you do eventually learn everything you need to learn when it's all said and done, but I learned a lot through supervision and work experience. Also, know that some (NOT ALL) clinical mental health master's programs are moving towards the three-year model, while most MSW programs are two years full time.
At the end of the day, they are pretty close, and none of these degrees are ones that you want to pay a lot for. Prestige of the university for any of these licenses REALLY doesn't matter, unlike some other fields. The pay is often crap, especially when you first get out of school, though you can eventually make a decent living. Your decision may actually just come down to COST and convenience. Which programs are around you? Can you do any online? Do some have evening/weekend classes? Which offer the best PRICE? So if it's a MSW from Columbia versus a MA from a CUNY school, trust me when I tell you you're going to want to pick the CUNY master's.
Hope this helps!
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I think it really depends on the region you live in and how long you plan to stay there. The major difference is that in general the lens of social work teaches you about how/what/why changes should be made to a person's environment to help them (systems perspective) whereas in Counseling in general the perspective is one of focusing on helping the client to learn what their strengths are and how to deal with the environment as more of a thing that can't be altered. I am in Missouri and both PLPC's and LMSW's are prevalent. I am a current school Counselor working on my LPC. I agree that overall the MSW would be more versatile as it is an older and more respected degree/profession nationally, but the ACA (American Counseling Assoc.) has been doing a great job of lobbying the last several years and we are coming up to speed in the different industries. Your best bet is to narrow down as much as possible the setting(s) you'd like to work in and the population(s) you'd like to serve. Good luck to you!
On the comment I bolded and underlined what do you mean? I'm finishing my bachelors and should start my masters for LPC next fall. I have toyed with the idea of doing a PhD instead. I don't know what you mean by if I get the PhD I'm still considered a masters level therapist. How can that be is I obtain a PhD? Thank you!
What I assume they mean is if you get your LPC and then go on to a PhD in Counseling Education, that PhD is not a license-eligible degree. Therefore, your clinical practice would still be through your master's level licensure. Same with if you go on to a PhD in social work after getting your LCSW. If, however, you decide to get a PhD in counseling psychology, you can then get licensed at the doctoral level as a psychologist.
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You should also consider if there is a program that would lead to your ability to be licensed as an LPA. This is a Texas-specific licensure similar to “master’s level psychologist” in other states. Depending on what you want to do day to day, this may be a good option for you. I’ve been an LPA/LPC in Texas for about 8 years. This January they changed the LPA licensure to an independent license rather than supervised. It will take awhile for billing practices to catch up but it’s already more lucrative for an LPA trained in clinical therapy and assessment than it was a year ago. Good luck with your decision!
