Lying about what you did last summer.

[stiffany]

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Dude, you may get out but not enough to realize that good does not always triumph, the guilty are not always punished, and liars are not always caught.

I am proud to have probably had one of the shortest, most succint AMCAS applications despite the fact that I am 43, served as Marine for many years, ran my own engineering firm, and was a pillar of my local Greek Orthodox Church. Not to mention having a family. I probably had a total of ten lines describing it all, without the usual "implemented," "coordinated," "facilitated," "spear-headed" and other action words describing nothing at all but beloved of the pre-med community on SDN.

My personal statement for ERAS was two short paragraphs.

I have reviewed many resumes in my time and I am strongly prejudiced against those which try to make caviar out of crap. Honesty is the best policy but it is in short supply for almost everybody applying to medical school. The system and the expectations make liars and cowards of us all.

It's great to look back and know that brevity worked for you Panda Bear, but what about the rest of us? I haven't served our country, I don't have a family to support, an alternate career experience, and so all of the dribble coming out of my AMCAS stands there as a way of hoping they'll look beyond my 3.5 GPA and actually give a **** about who I potentially am as a person long enough to extend me an interview invite. Perhaps it was different when you applied to med school in the late 90's or perhaps your leadership experience in the Marines, your GPA and MCAT, and your succintly refined personal statement landed on the right desk. That being said, I'm standing behind my 5100 character personal statement detailing shadowing and research experience with superfluous language and my activities section which makes clinical research look like the most exciting exercise known to man. This process sucks and, unfortunately from what I've seen of the life of med students, residents, and attendings who think the 80 hr work week is a sin against their tyranny, it doesn't get easier to buck the status quo and be an individual instead of a groveling underdog.

I agree that you may or may not get caught OP and that lots of people get ahead despite (or because of) lying, cheating, et cetera. That being said, if you do decide to add fake activities, honors or whatever on your AMCAS and you DO get caught, the extra 0.1 points your app might have gotten as a result fails in comparison to the consequences of cheating. I say it's not worth the risk and that you should instead do things that you might actually be interested in next summer instead of doing something mundane and then making something up.

 

[munnabhai]

Eh, whatever your conscience is comfortable with. If you are cool with cheating and lying then more power to you. We all draw the moral line somewhere. No use judging another's moral rectitude through our own interpretations of "morality".

This view does not apply to the more serious matters such as war crimes and other crimes against humanity.

 

[Depakote]

I'm sorry that we make life so difficult for you.

Hey, at least you were big enough to apologize... and in the end. That's what's important.

 

[etf]

i think one of the above posts sums it all up: lying about activities carries too much risk for too little reward - if you don't get caught, the 1 or 2 activities you added might not be significant enough anyway to get you an interview; on the other hand, if you lie about something significant enough to get an interview, it might be easier to catch you in one of these grand lies.

 

[8744]

It's great to look back and know that brevity worked for you Panda Bear, but what about the rest of us? I haven't served our country, I don't have a family to support, an alternate career experience, and so all of the dribble coming out of my AMCAS stands there as a way of hoping they'll look beyond my 3.5 GPA and actually give a **** about who I potentially am as a person long enough to extend me an interview invite. Perhaps it was different when you applied to med school in the late 90's or perhaps your leadership experience in the Marines, your GPA and MCAT, and your succintly refined personal statement landed on the right desk. That being said, I'm standing behind my 5100 character personal statement detailing shadowing and research experience with superfluous language and my activities section which makes clinical research look like the most exciting exercise known to man. This process sucks and, unfortunately from what I've seen of the life of med students, residents, and attendings who think the 80 hr work week is a sin against their tyranny, it doesn't get easier to buck the status quo and be an individual instead of a groveling underdog.

I agree that you may or may not get caught OP and that lots of people get ahead despite (or because of) lying, cheating, et cetera. That being said, if you do decide to add fake activities, honors or whatever on your AMCAS and you DO get caught, the extra 0.1 points your app might have gotten as a result fails in comparison to the consequences of cheating. I say it's not worth the risk and that you should instead do things that you might actually be interested in next summer instead of doing something mundane and then making something up.

Brevity is the soul of wit. You'd probably get more attention if you just left some of the description of your activities to the imagination of the admission committee. I can't believe that we have come to the point where educated adults are incapable of weeding out fluff from substance.

I think what has happened is an extra-curricular arms race. I'm glad I'm done with it and am looking foward to having somebody trying to sell themselves to me the next time I apply for a job.

On a philosophical note, if medical schools are looking for well-rounded, compassionate people and selecting appropriately, why are so many residents and attendings such dinguses? Or to put it another way, if every medical student has held Dead African Babies and given out needles to HIV positive homeless drug addicts, why is it necessary to have so much empathy indoctrination?

 

[dopaminesurge]

On a philosophical note, if medical schools are looking for well-rounded, compassionate people and selecting appropriately, why are so many residents and attendings such dinguses? Or to put it another way, if every medical student has held Dead African Babies and given out needles to HIV positive homeless drug addicts, why is it necessary to have so much empathy indoctrination?

No one's saying it's the reality. There aren't enough selfless people out there to fill up every spot in America. (I'm not saying it's even the ideal, but questioning why it isn't the reality seems moot. It's not because it's not conceivable.)

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

I don't think I'd lie about something like an award. I'd lie like.. yes I worked at this doctor's office then give them my uncle's cell number as a contact in case they want to call. Blah blah. My question wasn't if you all want to be my friend! It was what's the worst that can happen or something like that. Would they ban me from only that school? All public schools in the state? I doubt they can ban me from international schools though.

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

Oh, but on a different note, do any of you want to be my friend?

 

[Depakote]

I don't think I'd lie about something like an award. I'd lie like.. yes I worked at this doctor's office then give them my uncle's cell number as a contact in case they want to call. Blah blah. My question wasn't if you all want to be my friend! It was what's the worst that can happen or something like that. Would they ban me from only that school? All public schools in the state? I doubt they can ban me from international schools though.

pretty impressive lack of ethics right there.

So the real problem is if you manage to get in and it's uncovered. Because you actively lied (pretty blatantly, considering the lengths you went to to cover it up) You will be brought before an ethics counsel and likely dismissed from school. Once you have that mark on your record, you will NOT be able to get into any MD or DO school in the country... outside the us, dunno.



And no, I will not make out with you.

 

[szhao]

lol u should have KEPT a low profile on it

 

[MinnyGophers]

I don't think I'd lie about something like an award. I'd lie like.. yes I worked at this doctor's office then give them my uncle's cell number as a contact in case they want to call. Blah blah. My question wasn't if you all want to be my friend! It was what's the worst that can happen or something like that. Would they ban me from only that school? All public schools in the state? I doubt they can ban me from international schools though.

You'd better hope that uncle of yours is actually a doctor.... those things are very easy to check, and if found out that you lied, that will go on your record and you WILL be blacklisted from every accredited medical school in this country.

 

[Caristra]

On a philosophical note, if medical schools are looking for well-rounded, compassionate people and selecting appropriately, why are so many residents and attendings such dinguses? Or to put it another way, if every medical student has held Dead African Babies and given out needles to HIV positive homeless drug addicts, why is it necessary to have so much empathy indoctrination?

i think we all wonder about this from time to time. I have come with a few possible explanations:
1) They write nice personal statements about being compassionate and faked it for thirty minutes on their interview. I think that would be easy enough for your typical ass to pull off.
2) Medical school/residency beats all sense of compassion out of lots of people. I can't really comment on the likelihood of this since I have not been to medical school yet but from what I've hear it seems possible.
3) Some of their patients screwed them big time when they were young and idealistic. Also seems likely enough especially for inter-city physicians or those who get sued a lot.
4)Those stupid compassion seminars make everyone so sick they rebel by going in the complete opposite direction. This seems very likely since from what I've seen those seminars are enough to make anyone want to kill the world.

Anyone else care to speculate? I know its off topic but its much more fun than the original purpose of this thread. 😀

 

[DrZeke]

i think we all wonder about this from time to time. I have come with a few possible explanations:
1) They write nice personal statements about being compassionate and faked it for thirty minutes on their interview. I think that would be easy enough for your typical ass to pull off.
2) Medical school/residency beats all sense of compassion out of lots of people. I can't really comment on the likelihood of this since I have not been to medical school yet but from what I've hear it seems possible.
3) Some of their patients screwed them big time when they were young and idealistic. Also seems likely enough especially for inter-city physicians or those who get sued a lot.
4)Those stupid compassion seminars make everyone so sick they rebel by going in the complete opposite direction. This seems very likely since from what I've seen those seminars are enough to make anyone want to kill the world.
Anyone else care to speculate? I know its off topic but its much more fun than the original purpose of this thread. 😀

Seriously, those seminars sound bogus and awful. You cannot TEACH compassion or empathy. You can teach people how to fake it, but that usually becomes apparent that it is forced or fake. Man...what can I say...no system is perfect, and I'm sure people get in who refer to the little blackened dried up acorn in their chest as a heart.

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

pretty impressive

Thanks!

And no, I will not make out with you.

Shhhhhhhh........ pm me.

lol u should have KEPT a low profile on it

Lol. Yeah. Hey guys, just so you know, I would NEVER lie or cheat to get into med school. I didn't really lie to get into college! I am soo moral and things like that.

You'd better hope that uncle of yours is actually a doctor.... those things are very easy to check, and if found out that you lied, that will go on your record and you WILL be blacklisted from every accredited medical school in this country.

Oh ok. Thanks.

 

[szhao]

attention ***** hehe j/m k k good job

 

[45408]

I get out enough that I haven't had time to post over 6000 times on a website. Yeah I can tell you must get out alot. 6000 times are you kidding me. I guess its understandable if one is trying to help, but you don't seem like that type to me.

YEAH, THOSE 3.6 POSTS A DAY REALLY TAKE A LOT OF TIME. I GUESS HE NEVER GETS OUT


Did you even think before you posted? He's been on this forum for 5 years. Who gives a crap if he posts 3.6 times a day? I post 5.5 times a day. It takes at least 2 hours per post, so I'm on here ALL DAY LONG.

 

[45408]

Hmmm, High opinion of oneself (your posts and blog), self-promoting (your blog), low opinion of others (your posts and blogs), that sir is some of the criteria necessary for being labeled narcissistic. Now I understand where all your anger comes from. When you are so much better, smarter,.... than the rest of the people in the world, It's very frustrating for a narcissist like you to deal with the rest of us. I'm sorry that we make life so difficult for you.

Hmmm, quotes a 12th century philosopher in their sig, has an avatar with what looks like the electron transport chain, and thinks that someone's time spent on the Internet invalidates their opinion. I don't know what that makes you, other than annoying, but what's your point? That Panda is wrong becauses he uses the Internetz more than you?

 

[szhao]

look Prowler, temper got a howler

 

[45408]

I think what has happened is an extra-curricular arms race. I'm glad I'm done with it and am looking foward to having somebody trying to sell themselves to me the next time I apply for a job.

which is why I'm NOT volunteering at the free clinic, becoming the M1 liaison for 8 student organizations, or going to sit in a lab doing gels next summer. IF I do research, it will be something that actually interests me, otherwise I'll cut grass.

 

[45408]

look Prowler, temper got a howler

z0mg! I'M SO MAD RIGHT NOW, I JUST THREW MY COUCH OUT MY FRONT WINDOW AND BEAT UP THE NEIGHBOR'S KID.

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

Hmmm, quotes a 12th century philosopher in their sig, has an avatar with what looks like the electron transport chain, and thinks that someone's time spent on the Internet invalidates their opinion. I don't know what that makes you, other than annoying, but what's your point? That Panda is wrong becauses he uses the Internetz more than you?

Hello. Your avatar kind of scares me but not enough to make me pee my pants. So... mission failed!! One point for me.

 

[45408]

Hello. Your avatar kind of scares me but not enough to make me pee my pants. So... mission failed!! One point for me.

Hello. Why do you open your posts with a salutation? You just admitted that a 100x100 pixel image "kind of scares" you. You lost all of your points right there.

 

[MossPoh]

Dude, you may get out but not enough to realize that good does not always triumph, the guilty are not always punished, and liars are not always caught.

I am proud to have probably had one of the shortest, most succint AMCAS applications despite the fact that I am 43, served as Marine for many years, ran my own engineering firm, and was a pillar of my local Greek Orthodox Church. Not to mention having a family. I probably had a total of ten lines describing it all, without the usual "implemented," "coordinated," "facilitated," "spear-headed" and other action words describing nothing at all but beloved of the pre-med community on SDN.

My personal statement for ERAS was two short paragraphs.

I have reviewed many resumes in my time and I am strongly prejudiced against those which try to make caviar out of crap. Honesty is the best policy but it is in short supply for almost everybody applying to medical school. The system and the expectations make liars and cowards of us all.

You know Panda...it is starting to scare me how much I'm agreeing with you latley. 😉 People lie, I've lied, go ahead and make up entire stories...I really don't care. I might stretch stuff a little but no more than to the extent that I could comfortably talk about it..aka my research..and well my research or drinking stories but you know..don't think I'm going to talk about those. Treat this like a resume. Don't exaggerate and act like what you are doing is some glorious thing if it is not, but also don't be ridiculously modest about it. Keep it short and sweet. Make easy to scan type stuff that you could elaborate on with however much detail as needed later on....Don't fabricate some story how you pulled apple out of the drain by being the one that thought of the iPod when all you really did was get coffee for one of the designers during your internship there or something. (Someone actually fed that to me thinking I'd buy it)

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

Hello. Why do you open your posts with a salutation? You just admitted that a 100x100 pixel image "kind of scares" you. You lost all of your points right there.

Oh yeah, well that adds up to a grand total of one point lost.

*crys*

 

[8744]

Hmmm, High opinion of oneself (your posts and blog), self-promoting (your blog), low opinion of others (your posts and blogs), that sir is some of the criteria necessary for being labeled narcissistic. Now I understand where all your anger comes from. When you are so much better, smarter,.... than the rest of the people in the world, It's very frustrating for a narcissist like you to deal with the rest of us. I'm sorry that we make life so difficult for you.

Good Lord, accusing anybody involved in American medical training of being narcissistic is like going to the Vatican and accusing people of being Catholic.

As alway, thanks for reading my blog.