M-F Hospitalist

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SouthArkHog88

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I just wanted some advice. I have a unique opportunity to take a job in a nearby southern state, working Monday-Friday as full time hospitalist (Average 10pts/day). I will also be covering the medical aspect of a Geri psych unit that averages about 5pts. They only have to be seen twice per week and prn. Only downside is I am the sole hospitalist 24hrs a day Monday-Friday so I take all night call, but only have to attend emergencies at night, no admissions. ED docs cover hospital on weekends. It isn’t your standard situation since it’s in a rural area. What type of salary do you guys think is reasonable in the south for that kind of work? It’s hard to compare to other jobs and I’m having a hard time deciding... It’s not a terrible gig and patient volumes are relatively low, but the call portion is a lot, no weekends.

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You’re essentially living at the hospital 24/5? Does ED cover emergencies? Are you running codes? Are you running rapid response? Are you managing ICU? How many weeks per month? You will be burned out in no time..... you will not sleep well, you will not get any rest, or you will miss something at some point.

Cabin fever is real. I do 48 hour call in house, with that I have 20 min response time, I usually get antsy very quickly. I actually have plenty of places to go within 5 mile radius. You, my friend, are trapped.

I wouldn’t do it, unless the money is totally crazy...... like a million dollars for 26 weeks. This reminds me jobs in rural Alaska looking for a town doctor for a year at a time. You cannot be more than 10-20 miles away from the town. You’re prisoner of the town..... don’t do it!
 
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Well it really wouldn’t be that intense, it’s med/surg only, no ccu. Rural hospital with 24beds. On call 5/24 m-f every week minus 6 weeks vacation. I have to be within 30min of the hospital at all times, so I don’t have to stay in house. The in-laws live there so I would probably end up buying a house not far from the hospital. ED can run codes and I just show up as soon as I can to help if need be. If I need to leave town during the week after rounds the ED doc can cover the hospital for several hours and I just take phone calls. So I don’t think it’s as bad as my initial post made it out to be
 
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If you can/welling to buy a house maybe it’s better.

I still think it’s a crazy job. You’re essentially on 120hr/week, whether you are “working” or not that’s another discussion. But your opportunity cost has to factor into how much you’re asking for. You’re still “on the hook” so to speak. Also you don’t really know how collegial your ED is. I would ask to speak people who has done it before and get their take.

1 Million dollars.
 
The rounding is easy, the on call time is a lot! offer is 250k/year with 50k year loan repayment. Seems reasonable for the amount of rounding that will have to be done (8-10 pts per day average), but at the same time I should probably value myself more bc it is a lot of call monday-friday.
 
Yes. You definitely have to think that way. That’s why I said whether you consider you’re working or not that’s another discussion.
You cannot go out, you cannot have meals with alcohol. It’s time that you could have been doing something else. What if you a have kid or God forbid a family emergency?
Don’t sell yourself cheap. If they want to treat us as employees, then pay as such, a straight up hourly rate. The offer you have is laughable. Just do the math the math. You’re literally getting paid less than a RN. Not even APRN.
Mark my words, you will get burned out.
 
You're right, I guess I was intrigued because the work seemed easy, Come in when you want, see your 10 patients, leave. You can come back to do admits if you want after that or just let transition orders hold them until the next day. Seems like an easy job but the call can wear on you. I guess there's something special about being completely "off call" that's good for the mind. Even if the phone calls are easy.
 
Even if expected work is low, I feel that would be so mentally taxing being “on” 5 days and nights straight. Maybe it wouldn’t be so bad if you got used to it and was sleeping soundly 90% of the time. That sounds like a job someone would do for a short period of time and not have a family while doing it.
 
Even if expected work is low, I feel that would be so mentally taxing being “on” 5 days and nights straight. Maybe it wouldn’t be so bad if you got used to it and was sleeping soundly 90% of the time. That sounds like a job someone would do for a short period of time and not have a family while doing it.

thats what i can't decide, is it more taxing rounding a few hours every day and being on call the rest of the time with some freedom to leave town if need be, or would it be worse to take a 7on/7off job that would require you to be there 12hrs a day? Grass is always greener
 
OP there are other "round and go" type of hospitalist jobs. I know of two hospitals in my city (Southern US small city) that allow it. With it being a small hospital, my guess is that your acuity will be low which should keep the phone calls to a minimum for your admitted. Personally, I have done a weeks worth of 24 hour call while moonlighting during residency and it was less than enjoyable. Ultimately up to you. Don't sell your self short
 
Just had a conversation with RNs I work with. They’re getting paid $50/hr.

At 250,000 for 120hr/week and 46weeks/year.

You know where I am going with this..... ask to speak to the person who had your job before. If the hospital has nothing to hide, they would let you.
 
Having a hospitalist position with no weekend time is potentially a huge plus.

Really, I think it depends 100% on how many calls per night you get. If you get 1 call every hour, this is a really bad situation. If you get one call per week, it's totally fine.

Also depends on what you like to do with your weeknights. If going out to see movies is a big deal, you may get interrupted a bunch.
 
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The rounding is easy, the on call time is a lot! offer is 250k/year with 50k year loan repayment. Seems reasonable for the amount of rounding that will have to be done (8-10 pts per day average), but at the same time I should probably value myself more bc it is a lot of call monday-friday.

you can get a real job for 250k/year that doesn't involve a week straight of call and huge liability issues if something goes pear shaped. Are weekends potentially worth your medical license?

FWIW, I was getting offers in Chicago for 250k+ that were 24 weeks/year, 300k in St. Louis, 280k in Indianapolis, 240k in Sacramento. I agree with the others, 500k is the floor, and more realistically 700k+ for this job. Your medical license depending on someone pulling double duty? Recipe for disaster.
 
Having a hospitalist position with no weekend time is potentially a huge plus.

Really, I think it depends 100% on how many calls per night you get. If you get 1 call every hour, this is a really bad situation. If you get one call per week, it's totally fine.

Also depends on what you like to do with your weeknights. If going out to see movies is a big deal, you may get interrupted a bunch.
That and the acuity/severity of illness of the admitted patients are the real wild card here.

As to the OP:

Full disclaimer, I do agree with the conclusion of most of the posters but for an admittedly 100% personal point of view that factors in my dislike of rural places and my dislike of small hospitals where I would not be exposed to slightly more interesting cases.

From a completely analytical point of view, I really cannot give you an advise in regards to whether this is actually a reasonable option, a very good one or a very bad one.

You have two extreme.
One extreme is painted by a few of the previous posters. You are stuck with a 120h/week "5 day call" schedule and you are valued at a miserable $50/h.
The other extreme is that you end up having a small census that you can see in half a day, you can get back at home by lunch time and then you only get 2-3 calls per day, most of them 5 mins or less long and you only have to return to the hospital for 1h or so two or three times a month or less and hardly any call at all are between midnight and 5 am. I bet this other extreme would make a lot of people happy.

Reality is likely somewhere in between. If everything that you have found out about this job is still keeping you in the hook, perhaps investigating more about it could be a wise choice. I suspect that there is someone out there that probably thinks this job is great. Or perhaps it sucks but you could get a chance to negotiate it to the point of being an amazing job. Perhaps if not more money $$ you could stipulate a hard rule/contract that you are not supposed to be called between 12am and 6am and that anything that happens during this time is being covered by on-site staff, or perhaps you could talk them into getting a midlevel to help you out. Who knows.

If everything you have heard so far keeps attracting you, keep investigating and if you keep liking what you hear consider giving it a try.

Who knows, maybe 5 years down the line you are the one posting "Hey guys, here how I became filthy rich while having a sweet gig. I got this job that I can do without rushing in half a day most of the times, then I go home and see a few patients on telemedicine. I do have to take a few calls from time to time but they are rarely after 8pm because the hospital staff is amazing. Rarely I have to go in the middle of the night because they called me for an urgent matter but this occurs maybe once a month or so on average. On weekends 2 weekends per month I am driving to the nearest city to do so locums and I get paid about 8k/month extra because of this. I am making $500k while having minimal expenses on this cheap, rural area and I get to deduct 1 room for office space (telemedicine), depreciation of my car because of long commute on weekends as well as gas, I could retire in 3 more years if I wanted.

Yeah, it is farfetched. But the point I wanted to illustrate is that this is not a typical job. So you cannot necessarily compare it to any 7/7 12h shift job out there. It is simply not apple to apple comparison.

Again, the wildcard is how many calls, what sort of things they would call you for, and what sort of things would prompt you to go back to the hospital vs on-site staff managing this.
I don't know what would be my rate if I had to answer call 5/7 24. However, we can run a thought experiment. If you value your time at $500/hour (premium because a portion of those hours would be at night, and you consider 50k of your compensation to be paid for those calls, and assume the average call length to be 5minutes you would be fullfilling this sort of equation with about ~5calls day. You have a census of ~10patients on average, probably low acuity and complexity because I would think most serious patients would probably be transferred to some other location. That is not a lot of material as to generate a steady stream of more than 5 calls per days on average.

Like I said before, I wouldn't personally take this just based on the rural part of it. On the other hand, I don't think it is reasonable to just dismiss this in a blanket statement without seeing what sort of expected work you are potentially supposed to do.

Good luck in your search.
 
Thanks for all the responses. I see most agree this job depends on a lot of different factors. I will gather some more info and take your thoughts into consideration!
 
Do not want to create another thread... Hoping OP is ok with me highjacking this thread to ask a questions..


I am a PGY2 who would like to be a hospitalist (not nocturnist)

How early should I start looking for a job? Plan to start at the beginning of PGY3 so I can have options

I would like to be w/in 30-45 minutes from a big city in the south (SC, NC, LA, TX, FL, GA etc...). The set up I am looking for is 10 shifts/month (7a to 7p) full time so I can use the extra time to work another 1099 job.
 
Do not want to create another thread... Hoping OP is ok with me highjacking this thread to ask a questions..

Plan to start at the beginning of PGY3 so I can have options

I would like to be w/in 30-45 minutes from a big city in the south (SC, NC, LA, TX, FL, GA etc...). The set up I am looking for is 10 shifts/month (7a to 7p) full time so I can use the extra time to work another 1099 job.

That's too early to start looking. Start maybe 2-3 months out from when you will actually be able to accept the job. This is not a fellowship match -- your prospective employer is most likely looking to fill a vacancy in the short term, not in a year.

Set ups everywhere are different; you'll have to check with each employer about their schedule and their policies on having another job while you do theirs.
 
Do not want to create another thread... Hoping OP is ok with me highjacking this thread to ask a questions..


I am a PGY2 who would like to be a hospitalist (not nocturnist)

How early should I start looking for a job? Plan to start at the beginning of PGY3 so I can have options

I would like to be w/in 30-45 minutes from a big city in the south (SC, NC, LA, TX, FL, GA etc...). The set up I am looking for is 10 shifts/month (7a to 7p) full time so I can use the extra time to work another 1099 job.
Most day hospitalist work 15-18 shifts/month ...nocturnist usually can find 10shifts/month.
 
That's too early to start looking. Start maybe 2-3 months out from when you will actually be able to accept the job. This is not a fellowship match -- your prospective employer is most likely looking to fill a vacancy in the short term, not in a year.

Set ups everywhere are different; you'll have to check with each employer about their schedule and their policies on having another job while you do theirs.
He will be fresh out and if not already licensed in the state, will need a little more time for licensing and credentialing...would probably start looking 6 months before you want to work.
 
He will be fresh out and if not already licensed in the state, will need a little more time for licensing and credentialing...would probably start looking 6 months before you want to work.

Certainly get your licensing set up ASAP -- you don't need to have a job to get a state license. Some jobs may offer to pay state licensing or DEA licensing fees, so check on that with the individual employers. Good point about allowing time for credentialing. You can make some inquiries with division heads and see if they anticipate any jobs opening up in the future (sometimes it's a matter of securing funding internally to hire a new hospitalist).
 
Most day hospitalist work 15-18 shifts/month ...nocturnist usually can find 10shifts/month.
I was hoping that I could find a 10-12 shifts/month hospitalist... I want to maximize my income as much as possible by working another 1099 gig... Working 15-18 shifts/month won't let me have extra time to work a 1099 gig...
 
I was hoping that I could find a 10-12 shifts/month hospitalist... I want to maximize my income as much as possible by working another 1099 gig... Working 15-18 shifts/month won't let me have extra time to work a 1099 gig...

Many hospitalist jobs are 7 on/7off, so in your 7 off, you could still work another gig if you wanted to.
 
Many hospitalist jobs are 7 on/7off, so in your 7 off, you could still work another gig if you wanted to.
Yeah, but it's not ideal. I was told you need that 7 days off to recharge...
 
I agree. But it's possible.


Hey, I didn't say it would be easy! 😛
Some people could, especially if they have an easy job. I know someone who is doing 20 shifts/month (nocturnist), but it's a easy job with 2-3 admission/night... That individual makes ~700k/year (no benefits). Not everyone is lucky to find such gig.
 
Some people could, especially if they have an easy job. I know someone who is doing 20 shifts/month (nocturnist), but it's a easy job with 2-3 admission/night... That individual makes ~700k/year (no benefits). Not everyone is lucky to find such gig.
Right, but you said no nights.
 
Yeah... do not want to work at night

So in all honesty, I think you might need to adjust your expectations. While full time for nights is often 10/month, days will rarely be full time for 10/month. if you're going to do 10 day shifts per month, it will eat into your compensation, and you can probably expect to be paid 150k-200k /year, if not less based on location. If you're willing to go to an area that's desperate, this number might be better.
 
So in all honesty, I think you might need to adjust your expectations. While full time for nights is often 10/month, days will rarely be full time for 10/month. if you're going to do 10 day shifts per month, it will eat into your compensation, and you can probably expect to be paid 150k-200k /year, if not less based on location. If you're willing to go to an area that's desperate, this number might be better.
I am ok to make less (170-200k) working 10 shifts/month, but it has to be with benefits (health insurance, 401k etc...). I just want to have enough time to also another 1099 job where I can get a better salary...
 
I am ok to make less (170-200k) working 10 shifts/month, but it has to be with benefits (health insurance, 401k etc...). I just want to have enough time to also another 1099 job where I can get a better salary...
I don’t understand why you want an IC side gig...just do a few extra shifts at where you work.
 
I don’t understand why you want an IC side gig...just do a few extra shifts at where you work.
Independent contract gig usually pays more; it is also better for tax purpose than working extra hrs at one's regular gig. My goal is to be financial independent in 10 yrs and then work part time (2 days/wk). My best estimate is that I will need to bring home ~9k (after 401k, health insurance deductions etc...) every 2 wks to reach that goal.
 
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Independent contract gig usually pays more; it is also better for tax purpose than working extra hrs at one's regular gig. My goal is to be financial independent in 10 yrs and then work part time (2 days/wk). My best estimate is that I will need to bring home ~9k (after 401k, health insurance deductions etc...) every 2 wks to reach that goal.
Look if you want to be financially independent in 10 years you're going to have to work for it. Unless you can that stock market thing better than everyone else or win the lottery, you're putting in work.
 
Independent contract gig usually pays more; it is also better for tax purpose than working extra hrs at one's regular gig. My goal is to be financial independent in 10 yrs and then work part time (2 days/wk). My best estimate is that I will need to bring home ~9k (after 401k, health insurance deductions etc...) every 2 wks to reach that goal.
I don't know what sort of numbers you have been running for financial independence. But 9k biweekly is $4500 weekly after taxes. Assuming an effective rate of ~30% you should be making approximately $6500 per week prior to tax which is about $340k. That is a very achievable number after bonus/productivity without having to reach for additional shifts or additional work, even considering your no-night schedule.
I don't necessarily buy the premise that 1099 reliably pays (as a total compensation package) more. Of course, there are plenty of situations that this might be the case, and I bet there are just as many that it is not.
More importantly, I would not choose my primary job on the basis of my secondary, side-gig. My advice is to find the best fit primary job, THEN figure out how to maximize side-income after you maximized your primary. To me doesn't make sense to take a 100k pay cut on your primary job because you want to get 5 shift a month that pays 2k per shift.
Also, I hear so much myths about the "wonders" of 1099 and all the deductions and **** you can take advantage and then they either take the standard deduction (thus nullifying the whole 1099 thing) or end up deducting **** that is not deductible thus taking quite a bit of risk. If you wouldn't practice medicine without malpractice insurance... why would you go trying to scam uncle sam? sure... 99% you won't get caught, but would you really take that chance?
 
I don't know what sort of numbers you have been running for financial independence. But 9k biweekly is $4500 weekly after taxes. Assuming an effective rate of ~30% you should be making approximately $6500 per week prior to tax which is about $340k. That is a very achievable number after bonus/productivity without having to reach for additional shifts or additional work, even considering your no-night schedule.
I don't necessarily buy the premise that 1099 reliably pays (as a total compensation package) more. Of course, there are plenty of situations that this might be the case, and I bet there are just as many that it is not.
More importantly, I would not choose my primary job on the basis of my secondary, side-gig. My advice is to find the best fit primary job, THEN figure out how to maximize side-income after you maximized your primary. To me doesn't make sense to take a 100k pay cut on your primary job because you want to get 5 shift a month that pays 2k per shift.
Also, I hear so much myths about the "wonders" of 1099 and all the deductions and **** you can take advantage and then they either take the standard deduction (thus nullifying the whole 1099 thing) or end up deducting **** that is not deductible thus taking quite a bit of risk. If you wouldn't practice medicine without malpractice insurance... why would you go trying to scam uncle sam? sure... 99% you won't get caught, but would you really take that chance?
Thanks the suggestion!

For the record, I will not try to scam uncle sam... The few people that I have talked to who are also working 1099 make substantially more in their 1099 gig. For instance, one of the hospitals I rotated at when I was in med school pay their 1099 hospitalists ~200/hr and nocturnists 250/hr.
 
Thanks the suggestion!

For the record, I will not try to scam uncle sam... The few people that I have talked to who are also working 1099 make substantially more in their 1099 gig. For instance, one of the hospitals I rotated at when I was in med school pay their 1099 hospitalists ~200/hr and nocturnists 250/hr.
I didn't mean or try to imply that you would do it knowingly, but unfortunately, tax code is a f.king mess. Even people trained on this mess often don't know what they are doing (and don't take my word for it either, I don't know much either) and considering how much myths and BS is outhere proposing ridiculous deductions. Think of the time physicians were prescribing mercury for the treatment of illness... most likely they all (most?) had good intentions, they simply didn't know better.
I value simplicity and peace of mind. If it comes to that, I'd value an 11 or 12years plan without added complexities and/or risk vs a faster 10y plan. That is without considering that I don't even know if your premise that 1099 necessarily makes more counts, it might appear as such, but it could be because it might not offer you some of the benefits of the equivalent W2.
 
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Thanks the suggestion!

For the record, I will not try to scam uncle sam... The few people that I have talked to who are also working 1099 make substantially more in their 1099 gig. For instance, one of the hospitals I rotated at when I was in med school pay their 1099 hospitalists ~200/hr and nocturnists 250/hr.
Those are few and far between...and usually require doing procedures including intubation.
 
What's the highest you've had?
As a nocturnist...$185/hr...but I don’t do open icu, procedures, or supervise mid levels...I do hospitalist work now as a side gig...

I have had offers as high as $200/hr but usually that requires doing icu work...I usually don’t do daytime work.

I do endocrine as locums primarily and get $175-200/ hr for that. Typically outpt only, but sometimes have inpt consults as well.
 
Look if you want to be financially independent in 10 years you're going to have to work for it. Unless you can that stock market thing better than everyone else or win the lottery, you're putting in work.

Even if you can make the stock market work, you still have to have the base capital to invest!
 
As a nocturnist...$185/hr...but I don’t do open icu, procedures, or supervise mid levels...I do hospitalist work now as a side gig...

I have had offers as high as $200/hr but usually that requires doing icu work...I usually don’t do daytime work.

I do endocrine as locums primarily and get $175-200/ hr for that. Typically outpt only, but sometimes have inpt consults as well.

Hows your body feel as a nocturnist?
 
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