MD M3 applying Neuro/IM

[Lifeblood_20]

I'm done with 4/6 of 3rd year clerkships so far and thought this would be a good time to think about residency apps. wanted to see if my self-perception is accurate

Med school: "top 20" fwiw
Preclinical: P/F curriculum, all P
Step 1: Pass on first attempt
Clinical: (my school gives 30%-50% Honors for most rotations, the rest HP) - HP on Neuro and Peds, Honors on Surgery and Psych, still have to do OBGYN and IM. Likely will be 3rd or 2nd quartile.

ECs:
- Research: 1 neuro project in med school (got 2 poster abstracts, hopefully a pub soon). 1 mid-author low-tier publication, 3 posters, two grant awards in neuroscience that were from undergrad.
- leadership in 2 med school student orgs
- some service on med school's committees, some volunteering here and there
- hobbies: board games, exercise, nothing super interesting

Taking Step 2 in June 2024

Going to apply Neuro or IM. Not aiming for Top Programs at all but would prefer an academic program for neuro but open to community programs for IM.

I think I'll be alright matching somewhere if Step 2 is 240+? Any thoughts?

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[DrStephenStrange]

Just pass step 2 and you’ll be fine for Neuro. Most Neuro programs are academic anyway, but either way it doesn’t really matter much what Neuro program you go to unless you wanna do Neuro IR fellowship.

 

[Lifeblood_20]

Just pass step 2 and you’ll be fine for Neuro. Most Neuro programs are academic anyway, but either way it doesn’t really matter much what Neuro program you go to unless you wanna do Neuro IR fellowship.

Thanks. considering neuro-critical care or neuro-onc fellowship but I assume those are not super competitive.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Thanks. considering neuro-critical care or neuro-onc fellowship but I assume those are not super competitive.

No, beside neuro IR (and maybe Pain and neuro ophtho) no fellowship is competitive to get in Neurology. You’ll be fine.

 

[Zendo]

Just pass step 2 and you’ll be fine for Neuro. Most Neuro programs are academic anyway, but either way it doesn’t really matter much what Neuro program you go to unless you wanna do Neuro IR fellowship.

Do you think having Step 1 is important for DOs applying to Neuro? I believe you said Step 1 opened doors for you but not sure if it really makes a difference anymore being Pass/Fail. In other words, with limited time is it better to have a higher Step 2 score or a S1 pass + S2?

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Do you think having Step 1 is important for DOs applying to Neuro? I believe you said Step 1 opened doors for you but not sure if it really makes a difference anymore being Pass/Fail. In other words, with limited time is it better to have a higher Step 2 score or a S1 pass + S2?

Not sure how programs view step 1 nowadays or how they filter students, but I can easily see a PD just filter by whoever passed step 1 with just a click of a button. In that case, everyone who never even took it would also get filtered out. Otherwise, I think step 2 does have a higher weight now being the only scored exam available before match, so I guess as long the scenario above doesn’t happen, you should be fine with only step 2.

 

[Sidus1011]

Do you think having Step 1 is important for DOs applying to Neuro? I believe you said Step 1 opened doors for you but not sure if it really makes a difference anymore being Pass/Fail. In other words, with limited time is it better to have a higher Step 2 score or a S1 pass + S2?

Charting outcomes that comes out in March should be able to discern if it matters or not anymore. I'm going to take a guess and say that any filter that can be employed likely will be.

 

[Lifeblood_20]

No, beside neuro IR (and maybe Pain and neuro ophtho) no fellowship is competitive to get in Neurology. You’ll be fine.

Recently been considering neuro vascular/IR too. Working on getting ~2 pubs before ERAS submission, would I be in decent shape to shoot my shot for the decently ranked programs? (top 25 ideally)

 

[mrbreakfast]

would I be in decent shape to shoot my shot for the decently ranked programs? (top 25 ideally)

You can shoot your shot, but to be completely honest, right now your chances at a top-25 neuro program are about the same as a top-25 medicine program. Those programs are looking for students who are well above average on grades/academics, research, ECs, etc. If you decide to apply neuro, the best way to strengthen your application would be to do a neuro sub-I (which you honor; many reviewers, including me, are going to flag a HP on a neuro clerkship), get a step 2 score in the 250s or higher, publish those papers, and get very strong letters. There's certainly no harm in shooting your shot, though.

That being said, you don't have to be at a top-tier program to match neuro-IR, at all. If that's what you want to do, strong performance and research in residency is what people are going to look for.

Also I will just note that many med students who consider neuro-IR change their minds when they learn about what the lifestyle is actually like. If you are seriously considering it and have some elective time to spare, your med school may offer an elective, which would be worth doing.

 

[Lifeblood_20]

You can shoot your shot, but to be completely honest, right now your chances at a top-25 neuro program are about the same as a top-25 medicine program. Those programs are looking for students who are well above average on grades/academics, research, ECs, etc. If you decide to apply neuro, the best way to strengthen your application would be to do a neuro sub-I (which you honor; many reviewers, including me, are going to flag a HP on a neuro clerkship), get a step 2 score in the 250s or higher, publish those papers, and get very strong letters. There's certainly no harm in shooting your shot, though.

That being said, you don't have to be at a top-tier program to match neuro-IR, at all. If that's what you want to do, strong performance and research in residency is what people are going to look for.

Also I will just note that many med students who consider neuro-IR change their minds when they learn about what the lifestyle is actually like. If you are seriously considering it and have some elective time to spare, your med school may offer an elective, which would be worth doing.

Thanks for the reply. Are you a neuro residency program reviewer?

I’m not driven to grind to go to a top 25 neuro program all, just what I figured would leave the most doors open. Wouldn’t kill me if I don’t go into IR — I am very much a lifestyle-oriented person. Right now I am most interested in neuro-oncology if I do decide go into neuro but I’m pretty flexible.

My alternative choice would be IM -> heme onc which I understand means I would need a decent academic IM residency.

 

[mrbreakfast]

Thanks for the reply. Are you a neuro residency program reviewer?

I’m not driven to grind to go to a top 25 neuro program all, just what I figured would leave the most doors open. Wouldn’t kill me if I don’t go into IR — I am very much a lifestyle-oriented person. Right now I am most interested in neuro-oncology if I do decide go into neuro but I’m pretty flexible.

My alternative choice would be IM -> heme onc which I understand means I would need a decent academic IM residency.

I interview applicants for our program (top-25) and while I personally don't interview a lot of applicants, that gets me into the rank list meeting. What each interviewer looks for and weighs is slightly different. Personally I don't care as much about research; I look for people who are above-average academically (not necessarily superstars) who have very strong letters, interests outside medicine, and are personable. I have colleagues who weigh things differently.

I can't speak for what is required to be a competitive neuro-onc fellowship applicant as I don't know very many neuro-oncologists, but I view the field as essentially a medicine subspecialty. Either way, I think the fields in which you are interested would need some research time in residency.

If you are in a non-coastal region of the country, you might as well send applications to the top programs in your region. You never know. Also, if you have a particular program in which you are very interested, a strong away rotation with letters from faculty there will move you way up the list.

 

[Meerkatology]

I'm done with 4/6 of 3rd year clerkships so far and thought this would be a good time to think about residency apps. wanted to see if my self-perception is accurate

Med school: "top 20" fwiw
Preclinical: P/F curriculum, all P
Step 1: Pass on first attempt
Clinical: (my school gives 30%-50% Honors for most rotations, the rest HP) - HP on Neuro and Peds, Honors on Surgery and Psych, still have to do OBGYN and IM. Likely will be 3rd or 2nd quartile.

ECs:
- Research: 1 neuro project in med school (got 2 poster abstracts, hopefully a pub soon). 1 mid-author low-tier publication, 3 posters, two grant awards in neuroscience that were from undergrad.
- leadership in 2 med school student orgs
- some service on med school's committees, some volunteering here and there
- hobbies: board games, exercise, nothing super interesting

Taking Step 2 in June 2024

Going to apply Neuro or IM. Not aiming for Top Programs at all but would prefer an academic program for neuro but open to community programs for IM.

I think I'll be alright matching somewhere if Step 2 is 240+? Any thoughts?

unless scales have changed, 240+ is 99%+ right?

speaking only for IM, you'll likely be fine for the higher end academic programs.
if u went for a community IM program you'll basically have pick of the litter

 

[mrbreakfast]

unless scales have changed, 240+ is 99%+ right?

speaking only for IM, you'll likely be fine for the higher end academic programs.
if u went for a community IM program you'll basically have pick of the litter

Scales have changed, a lot. 240 is 28th percentile on step 2; average is 249. Higher end academic IM = very competitive; ~30% of IM applicants scored >260 on step 2 in 2022.