M4 Am I going into the wrong field?

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Osteoth

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Long story short, applied into IM, but had an EM rotation in December that was awesome.

Am making my rank list for IM right now and can't tell what to do.

How do I weigh enjoying another specialty possibly more vs. retraining or trying to switch into it?

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Don't a lot of ERs out there employ people boarded in primary care (IM/FM)? Seems like you don't really have to switch?
 
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Pace, variety, truly "diagnosing".

I was actually just talking about this with a friend, the biggest thing about EM that I didn't have in IM was that I was excited to go to work. EM is just more "fun" for me. I know alot of that is just gut feeling/gestalt, but it is truly the biggest thing that differentiates the two for me.
 
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Pace, variety, truly "diagnosing".

I was actually just talking about this with a friend, the biggest thing about EM that I didn't have in IM was that I was excited to go to work. EM is just more "fun" for me. I know alot of that is just gut feeling/gestalt, but it is truly the biggest thing that differentiates the two for me.
Interesting. My experience in EM in MS4 and intern year (I am in neither EM or IM) was very different. Never truly "diagnosed" anything in the ED. The main job was to stabilize and dispo - admit vs discharge. Once stable, whatever work-up needed to diagnose went to IM or whatever other specialty necessary.

Getting cold feet this deep into match season isn't uncommon.
 
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Interesting. My experience in EM in MS4 and intern year (I am in neither EM or IM) was very different. Never truly "diagnosed" anything in the ED. The main job was to stabilize and dispo - admit vs discharge. Once stable, whatever work-up needed to diagnose went to IM or whatever other specialty necessary.

Getting cold feet this deep into match season isn't uncommon.

Yeah I will admit maybe 70% of the patients I saw were BS URI stuff or ACS rule out, but I would say at least every other shift we would have something real. Diagnosing a pregnancy with bedside US, or an intracranial neoplasm with CC of a headache. To me those are things you live for.
 
Eh, everything gets old. You should look more into the lifestyle of EM vs IM and make your decision based on that. I say this as an EM attending.

Also, diagnosing someone with something that has a high probability of killing them is something I dread, not enjoy. You might not have had to be the one to tell patients they have cancer yet. I’ll summarize it for you though: It sucks.
 
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Yeah I will admit maybe 70% of the patients I saw were BS URI stuff or ACS rule out, but I would say at least every other shift we would have something real. Diagnosing a pregnancy with bedside US, or an intracranial neoplasm with CC of a headache. To me those are things you live for.
Did you not get at least 1 zebra every few days on inpatient Medicine?
 
Yeah I will admit maybe 70% of the patients I saw were BS URI stuff or ACS rule out, but I would say at least every other shift we would have something real. Diagnosing a pregnancy with bedside US, or an intracranial neoplasm with CC of a headache. To me those are things you live for.
My two cents from a fellow M4 who flirted with EM but ultimately decided against it: I think most med students who truly enjoy medicine like being in the ER. Its one of the only places i truly felt useful and like a “real” doctor. Theres a reason its so popular amongst med students now. After speaking with many attendings, though, it became clear to me that EM is just so much more appealing from the perspective of a single 27 year old than a married 35 year old with a family. For various reasons, I came to the conclusion that its a short-sighted decision to go into EM and decided to pursue a specialty where even 60 year old attendings rave about their jobs. To me, the only way to make such tremendous life decisions is by looking at those who have made it already.
 
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Eh, everything gets old. You should look more into the lifestyle of EM vs IM and make your decision based on that. I say this as an EM attending.

Also, diagnosing someone with something that has a high probability of killing them is something I dread, not enjoy. You might not have had to be the one to tell patients they have cancer yet. I’ll summarize it for you though: It sucks.

Makes me pretty happy to hear you say that. Everyone just keeps saying go into what you find the most interesting and I get worried that I made the wrong choice.

Did you not get at least 1 zebra every few days on inpatient Medicine?

Honestly not really. Most of my patients were HF/COPD/DM exacerbation that we tuned up and sent out. We would get some interesting things on the floors (thyroid storm, myxedema coma), but by the time they get up there they'd be diagnosed so we're just following an algorithm.

My two cents from a fellow M4 who flirted with EM but ultimately decided against it: I think most med students who truly enjoy medicine like being in the ER. Its one of the only places i truly felt useful and like a “real” doctor. Theres a reason its so popular amongst med students now. After speaking with many attendings, though, it became clear to me that EM is just so much more appealing from the perspective of a single 27 year old than a married 35 year old with a family. For various reasons, I came to the conclusion that its a short-sighted decision to go into EM and decided to pursue a specialty where even 60 year old attendings rave about their jobs. To me, the only way to make such tremendous life decisions is by looking at those who have made it already.

True, like I was saying above it is just easy to wonder if you chose the right career based on passion or another factor. What field did you go into?
 
All fields have the usual stuff and the less common but more interesting stuff. I do not think that is a good metric to determine career. The ED will figure out a lot of the straightforward stuff, but so much comes up to the floor that still needs to be worked up.
 
This is very common.
Buyer's remorse.
Don't buy it.
Go with your initial impulse: IM
If you don't like traditional IM, then specialize.

Everyone loves their EM rotation.
It is hugely misleading for the longterm.
 
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Yeah I will admit maybe 70% of the patients I saw were BS URI stuff or ACS rule out, but I would say at least every other shift we would have something real. Diagnosing a pregnancy with bedside US, or an intracranial neoplasm with CC of a headache. To me those are things you live for.

This gets old.
In reality, that announcement of pregnancy will be on a homeless drug addict. Or someone who doesn't want it and will ask for an abortion pill before you can even get the US probe off them. Not inspiring patient encounters.

Incidental cancer findings become things that you will dread as an ED doc -- not live for.

Sure, on one hand, it good you found CA... but you are always going to be pressed for time as an attending. No one likes to deliver bad news. People can get good at it -- but if you truly enjoy BAD NEWS itself, then something is off. What one can enjoy is the art of being there 100% for a patient and their family as you crush their entire world... Something very challenging to do in the ED. As an EM doc, you will be managing 10 patients simultaneously of various acuity levels. When you find that brain cancer, you know if done right -- it needs to be a long sitdown conversation -- with much silence and many questions. You also will be serving those other 9 patients with their own emergencies which don't stop because the 10th person has a brain tumor. So you will feel the pressure of the ED on you as you also bear the pressure of delivering terrible news. One doesn't feel this as a medical student or junior resident managing only a few pts at a time.

You will get the the point to where, when you find something like cancer, you say "ah ****" for three reasons.
1) It is terrible for the patient most of all.
2) You know it is going to be a challenge to balance for you.
3) It is going to take a significant amount of time from your other patients.
 
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What field are you in, if you don't mind me asking?
My two cents from a fellow M4 who flirted with EM but ultimately decided against it: I think most med students who truly enjoy medicine like being in the ER. Its one of the only places i truly felt useful and like a “real” doctor. Theres a reason its so popular amongst med students now. After speaking with many attendings, though, it became clear to me that EM is just so much more appealing from the perspective of a single 27 year old than a married 35 year old with a family. For various reasons, I came to the conclusion that its a short-sighted decision to go into EM and decided to pursue a specialty where even 60 year old attendings rave about their jobs. To me, the only way to make such tremendous life decisions is by looking at those who have made it already.

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Theres a reason its so popular amongst med students now. After speaking with many attendings, though, it became clear to me that EM is just so much more appealing from the perspective of a single 27 year old than a married 35 year old with a family. For various reasons, I came to the conclusion that its a short-sighted decision to go into EM and decided to pursue a specialty where even 60 year old attendings rave about their jobs.
Current 35yo, married with a family M4 going into EM. Please don't generalize. I know plenty of 60 year old attendings who still love EM, but also realize that as a speciality, many of those weren't residency trained EM docs. EM is shift work, with no call. Yes, it's grueling when you're on, but I'm not dealing with prior authorizations, dispo issues with case management, etc. Also, there are a ton of fellowships that break up the monotony or the grind - you can do tox and work poison control, EMS and be a medical director or do admin and have a c-suite, all while still doing 0.25-0.5 FTE and working 1-2 times a week in the department. I don't mean to try and change OPs mind, but the discussion here seemed negative towards EM and only one person here in the field commenting.
 
Current 35yo, married with a family M4 going into EM. Please don't generalize. I know plenty of 60 year old attendings who still love EM, but also realize that as a speciality, many of those weren't residency trained EM docs. EM is shift work, with no call. Yes, it's grueling when you're on, but I'm not dealing with prior authorizations, dispo issues with case management, etc. Also, there are a ton of fellowships that break up the monotony or the grind - you can do tox and work poison control, EMS and be a medical director or do admin and have a c-suite, all while still doing 0.25-0.5 FTE and working 1-2 times a week in the department. I don't mean to try and change OPs mind, but the discussion here seemed negative towards EM and only one person here in the field commenting.
In other words, your advice to the OP, who by the way has already applied into IM and would require significant time and effort to make a field switch at this juncture, is to pursue a specialty that is “monotonous” and “a grind” because, well, OP can just do a fellowship and/or take a desk job in 10 years when they almost invariably will get sick of doing the job they were trained to do. Meanwhile, in the field the OP has already chosen and will be hopefully matching into in a short time, the fellowship opportunities are vastly superior and carry job satisfaction rates that are worlds ahead of the field he is pondering over.
What field are you in, if you don't mind me asking?

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Ophtho
 
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Interesting. My experience in EM in MS4 and intern year (I am in neither EM or IM) was very different. Never truly "diagnosed" anything in the ED. The main job was to stabilize and dispo - admit vs discharge. Once stable, whatever work-up needed to diagnose went to IM or whatever other specialty necessary.

Getting cold feet this deep into match season isn't uncommon.

then you didnt pick up the right patients. Some of the work of the ED is being a wall and diagnosing things like pnuemonia, URI, etc. And you also have to find a reason to admit patients like DVT, PE, etc. Sure sometimes we look at labs and say "idk wtf is going on, lets just admit or consult" but youd be shocked what can get diagnosed quickly in the ED
 
This gets old.
In reality, that announcement of pregnancy will be on a homeless drug addict. Or someone who doesn't want it and will ask for an abortion pill before you can even get the US probe off them. Not inspiring patient encounters.

Wow you are burnt out man. Who gives a **** if a patient is asking for an abortion pill? Who cares if the patient is a homeless drug addict. Maybe this pregnancy will be the wakeup call to stop drugs. Maybe the abortion pill is because they would get the **** beaten out of them by a partner or family member if they let them know they are pregnant.

Its not our job to police the patients, its our job to diagnose them, give them their options, and then treat them.
 
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Interesting. My experience in EM in MS4 and intern year (I am in neither EM or IM) was very different. Never truly "diagnosed" anything in the ED. The main job was to stabilize and dispo - admit vs discharge. Once stable, whatever work-up needed to diagnose went to IM or whatever other specialty necessary.

Getting cold feet this deep into match season isn't uncommon.
I’m not sure what this is about. All the ED is is diagnose, resuscitate, repeat.
 
I’m not sure what this is about. All the ED is is diagnose, resuscitate, repeat.
Pretty sure you'd want the "resuscitate" part to come first in that order.
Cardiac arrest or hypoxic respiratory failure are not diagnoses.

Look, I'm not trying to put down the field at all. It has a place and a need. Just clarifying what actually happens in the ED. In response to you and the poster above who quoted me, of course you recognize/diagnose things like PNA, UTI, PE, MI, etc in the ED all the time. That's not what I was referring to as "truly diagnosing." My impression from the OP was the s/he was referring to complex cases requiring work-up beyond the straight forward stuff that happens in the ED to "truly diagnose." It doesn't take much to "diagnose" a UTI with a dirty UA or a STEMI with ST elevations on EKG. The EM physicians' job is to intervene in acute cases and stabilize the patient once those acute cases are recognized. They don't always come with a "true diagnosis."
 
Wow you are burnt out man. Who gives a **** if a patient is asking for an abortion pill? Who cares if the patient is a homeless drug addict. Maybe this pregnancy will be the wakeup call to stop drugs. Maybe the abortion pill is because they would get the **** beaten out of them by a partner or family member if they let them know they are pregnant.

Its not our job to police the patients, its our job to diagnose them, give them their options, and then treat them.

How many years have you been in EM?

Not "policing" patients in that post. Rather responding to ideal of specific patient encounters "to live for" as an EM doc.

Sure, if you have tunnel vision and are happy with just arriving at a diagnosis -- one can cognitively try to halt there. I found a pregnancy; I found a brain tumor. Or you see the bigger picture of what's going on with the patient in front of you and find that these situations are what they are, but -- often -- far from inspiring.

Do you find the life situation of a person, to quote you, requiring abortion because their partner will "beat the **** out of them" satisfying or something you will leave the room smiling about as their doc? If so, you're a bit too myopic regarding the total patient. Or is that outside your job description of: "diagnose and treat it"?

Your fixation on the abortion aspect is more political undertones than anything. No one said anything about denying that service.

PS: Even though my post didnt mention it, since you brought it up -- it is absolutely part of your duty as a doc to police patients as they often don't know what's best for themselves. Unless you plan on giving Abx to every pt with a sniffle, a CT for every 5yo with belly pain, DC paperwork for every actively psychotic pt demanding to leave, or writing high dose perc refills to everyone that asks.

It is your duty to police with the knowledge you will be soon gaining (I take it you will be going into EM).

In EM you'll find most derive their satisfaction in other ways. Head over into the subforum if you want more info.
 
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