M4 (DO) Ask Me Anything

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Seeing how most med schools are pass fail, does class rank matter coming from a ranked/non-pass fail school?
 
Everybody seems to tell M2s that “it gets better,” but I’m an M3 and it feels like it’s gotten much worse. Constant feeling of incompetence, zero control over your own schedule, wasting time and feigning interest in specialties you hate, subjective evaluations from capricious attendings…

It might get better during M4 since you get to customize your schedule and take time off, M3 feels like a major grind.
 
Osminog said:
Everybody seems to tell M2s that “it gets better,” but I’m an M3 and it feels like it’s gotten much worse. Constant feeling of incompetence, zero control over your own schedule, wasting time and feigning interest in specialties you hate, subjective evaluations from capricious attendings…

It might get better during M4 since you get to customize your schedule and take time off, M3 feels like a major grind.
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100% this. 3rd year is so much worse than 1st and 2nd
 
Schwifty said:
Just to add a little to this thread, I feel like 3rd year is 100x better than 1st and 2nd year. It probably just depends on the school/rotation site
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I wondered about this, because every single 3rd year I’ve talked to from my school seems so much happier than they were last year. Maybe it’s the fact that they’re out every day seeing patients vs stuck inside doing webex lectures and anki.
 
Dame_Maggie said:
I wondered about this, because every single 3rd year I’ve talked to from my school seems so much happier than they were last year. Maybe it’s the fact that they’re out every day seeing patients vs stuck inside doing webex lectures and anki.
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Ya that’s the general vibe at my school. During 2nd year, especially closer to boards, we were studying like 8-10 hours a day 6-7 days a week. Just staring at a computer and smashing that spacebar. It’s so much better being able to actually talk to patients and interact with people lol
 
Schwifty said:
Ya that’s the general vibe at my school. During 2nd year, especially closer to boards, we were studying like 8-10 hours a day 6-7 days a week. Just staring at a computer and smashing that spacebar. It’s so much better being able to actually talk to patients and interact with people lol
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I’m in 2nd year now…it’s better than 1st year because it lines up with boards much better and it’s nice learning clinically relevant material rather than PhD minutiae, but I can’t wait to be out around patients again.
 
Dame_Maggie said:
I’m in 2nd year now…it’s better than 1st year because it lines up with boards much better and it’s nice learning clinically relevant material rather than PhD minutiae, but I can’t wait to be out around patients again.
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Ya same at my school, second year was much more boards relevant. It was just the stress of taking boards scored that really made it suck lol
 
Dr.Meowz said:
Seeing how most med schools are pass fail, does class rank matter coming from a ranked/non-pass fail school?
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There are going to be mixed opinions on this but it really depends on the specialty I think. Class rank from the NRMP data usually is middle of the road for say IM and many other specialties. Definitely not super super important but if your school does do class rank I guess it matters some but not a deal breaker. It really depends but overall I think it matters less than youd think and especialy less if youre coming from a USMD program or a top ranked USMD
 
Osminog said:
Everybody seems to tell M2s that “it gets better,” but I’m an M3 and it feels like it’s gotten much worse. Constant feeling of incompetence, zero control over your own schedule, wasting time and feigning interest in specialties you hate, subjective evaluations from capricious attendings…

It might get better during M4 since you get to customize your schedule and take time off, M3 feels like a major grind.
Click to expand...
It really depends on your rotation site honestly and also depends on your personality. Some people like M2 better bc they can control their schedule more and can study in their PJs all day however others hate the stress of the importance of Step 1 and also how much of a grind it is to study 10-14 hrs per day for such a long period of time while also balancing classes. I liked M3 much much better because for me my rotation site was for the most part pretty chill and it was essentially 9–5 job. Also during M3 its VERY dofficult to fail a clerkship so you dont have that looming over your head like M2 with classes and Step 1. I also was pulling my hair out M2 studying 10-12 hrs per day and worried about my step score and future based on what score Id get (M2 was wayyyy more stressful for me). M4 is unanimously better i promise its basically a vacation!
 
Schwifty said:
Ya that’s the general vibe at my school. During 2nd year, especially closer to boards, we were studying like 8-10 hours a day 6-7 days a week. Just staring at a computer and smashing that spacebar. It’s so much better being able to actually talk to patients and interact with people lol
Click to expand...
This^
 
Dame_Maggie said:
I wondered about this, because every single 3rd year I’ve talked to from my school seems so much happier than they were last year. Maybe it’s the fact that they’re out every day seeing patients vs stuck inside doing webex lectures and anki.
Click to expand...
Yes so much happier third year. Kids in my class were not well during M2 (seriously)
 
Osminog said:
Everybody seems to tell M2s that “it gets better,” but I’m an M3 and it feels like it’s gotten much worse. Constant feeling of incompetence, zero control over your own schedule, wasting time and feigning interest in specialties you hate, subjective evaluations from capricious attendings…

It might get better during M4 since you get to customize your schedule and take time off, M3 feels like a major grind.
Click to expand...
3rd year was better for me because I finally learned how to study, so I performed a lot better
 
If you happen to know... for those who live exclusively on loans, do you feel like pre-clinical or clinical is easier financially? At least at some points, I have felt paying bills is more stressful than class.
 
wilhelmsa said:
If you happen to know... for those who live exclusively on loans, do you feel like pre-clinical or clinical is easier financially? At least at some points, I have felt paying bills is more stressful than class.
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If youre able to move back home with parents third and fourth year thats a HUGE plus and helps financially. for me thats what I did and saved a crap ton of money M3 and M4
 
What tips would you give for a current M1?

How many times did you switch the specialty you were interested in throughout school?
 
Damson said:
@Deecee2DO What were your in-house examinations like?
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Very low yield crap lol about 60-100 questions mostly minutiae and PhD level crap unfortunately. Only good class that followed Pathoma and Robbins to a T was my Path professor (God bless that man). Our physio and micro was solid-followed first aid sketchy and costanzo pretty well. Biochem anatomy and histo were a nightmare
 
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pigsinacloth said:
What tips would you give for a current M1?

How many times did you switch the specialty you were interested in throughout school?
Click to expand...
I was pretty confident I wanted to match academic IM and then subspecialize when I came in and since I knew as a DO matching at a strong academic IM program would be very difficult I hit the ground running since day 1. My advice is to expose yourself (shadowing, research, finding mentors etc) as much as possible to competitive specialties if you feel like you may be interested in them as early as possible so you can start preparing an app for it. With Step 1 going pass/fail research matters more so hopping on Derm or surgical sub research early on in med school will be muy importante for your app for residency. I dont recommend waiting until you get ur 260-270+ Step 2 score back and saying at the end of M3 hmm i think i want to do Derm or ENT now and all you have to your app is a nice juicy Step 2 score. For these specialties you need more than just a high board score. Find mentors early, cold call/email research coordinators at academic programs, reach out to residents at programs you feel like you may be interested in early and ask for their advice they may even know an academic faculty mentor that they may be able to set you up with (this is what happened to me and led to an academic letter of reccomendation and research at a nice mid tier uni program which helped bolster my app for academic IM). Network network network. This advice can be helpful for anyone but particularly geared toward DOs going for competitive specialties and by no means is a requirement but can really help you down the line
 
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wilhelmsa said:
If you happen to know... for those who live exclusively on loans, do you feel like pre-clinical or clinical is easier financially? At least at some points, I have felt paying bills is more stressful than class.
Click to expand...
I found it about the same, it shouldn't be too different if your living situation doesn't change.

The only real extra expensive is ERAS come fourth year.
 
Deecee2DO said:
I was pretty confident I wanted to match academic IM and then subspecialize when I came in and since I knew as a DO matching at a strong academic IM program would be very difficult I hit the ground running since day 1. My advice is to expose yourself (shadowing, research, finding mentors etc) as much as possible to competitive specialties if you feel like you may be interested in them as early as possible so you can start preparing an app for it. With Step 1 going pass/fail research matters more so hopping on Derm or surgical sub research early on in med school will be muy importante for your app for residency. I dont recommend waiting until you get ur 260-270+ Step 2 score back and saying at the end of M3 hmm i think i want to do Derm or ENT now and all you have to your app is a nice juicy Step 2 score. For these specialties you need more than just a high board score. Find mentors early, cold call/email research coordinators at academic programs, reach out to residents at programs you feel like you may be interested in early and ask for their advice they may even know an academic faculty mentor that they may be able to set you up with (this is what happened to me and led to an academic letter of reccomendation and research at a nice mid tier uni program which helped bolster my app for academic IM). Network network network. This advice can be helpful for anyone but particularly geared toward DOs going for competitive specialties and by no means is a requirement but can really help you down the line
Click to expand...
Exactly I got my research from cold emailing faculty at academic centers, many are willing to bring you on board.
 
Deecee2DO said:
It really depends on your rotation site honestly and also depends on your personality. Some people like M2 better bc they can control their schedule more and can study in their PJs all day however others hate the stress of the importance of Step 1 and also how much of a grind it is to study 10-14 hrs per day for such a long period of time while also balancing classes. I liked M3 much much better because for me my rotation site was for the most part pretty chill and it was essentially 9–5 job. Also during M3 its VERY dofficult to fail a clerkship so you dont have that looming over your head like M2 with classes and Step 1. I also was pulling my hair out M2 studying 10-12 hrs per day and worried about my step score and future based on what score Id get (M2 was wayyyy more stressful for me). M4 is unanimously better i promise its basically a vacation!
Click to expand...
It is more like 8-5 until the surgery and ICU rotations with 60 hours per week.
 
I'd love to know your thoughts on what makes a good clinical rotation site. What should I be looking for for good 3rd and 4th years?
 
doc2be6266 said:
I'd love to know your thoughts on what makes a good clinical rotation site. What should I be looking for for good 3rd and 4th years?
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get residents if you can, besides that there is really nothing you can do. Some 4th years loved my 3rd year site, but when I got there I found it lacking in a lot of areas.
 
wilhelmsa said:
If you happen to know... for those who live exclusively on loans, do you feel like pre-clinical or clinical is easier financially? At least at some points, I have felt paying bills is more stressful than class.
Click to expand...

Also M4, we’re pretty fortunate that our interviews are virtual for the most part bc that saves a lotttt of time and money. I have 10+ interviews all over the place and cannot even imagine how expensive it would be to travel to all these places. I have 1 in-person interview and I’m already dreading the cost of going there lol. Hopefully it’ll be at least a hybrid by the time you apply.
 
iforget2 said:
Also M4, we’re pretty fortunate that our interviews are virtual for the most part bc that saves a lotttt of time and money. I have 10+ interviews all over the place and cannot even imagine how expensive it would be to travel to all these places. I have 1 in-person interview and I’m already dreading the cost of going there lol. Hopefully it’ll be at least a hybrid by the time you apply.
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This is a good and bad thing... bc its virtual...people are hoarding interviews. What specialty did you apply to?
 
ohmanwaddup said:
I though the data showed very little if any interview hoarding
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I haven't seen that data.. I just know that people are going on 15+ interviews...which I'm not sure how plausible that is if this was not virtual ...
 
xjustcuious said:
I haven't seen that data.. I just know that people are going on 15+ interviews...which I'm not sure how plausible that is if this was not virtual ...
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Charting outcomes seems to imply for most specialites that 12-15 are the sweet spot.

Also is it really hoarding if you are going on more interviews? I would think hoarding would be people who take up spots but never intended to actually to the interview/rank the program. I've got 16 set up right now, would not really consider that hoarding since I'll be ranking all of them.
 
ohmanwaddup said:
Charting outcomes seems to imply for most specialites that 12-15 are the sweet spot.

Also is it really hoarding if you are going on more interviews? I would think hoarding would be people who take up spots but never intended to actually to the interview/rank the program. I've got 16 set up right now, would not really consider that hoarding since I'll be ranking all of them.
Click to expand...

Kinda glad you said this actually. I have 15 and a part of me feels bad for going on 15, but how will I know more about the program if I don’t interview with them? Programs that I thought were meh have turned out to be amazing and programs I thought were great have given me 2nd thought about where I rank them. This is one of those systems where you blame the game, not the player
 
iforget2 said:
This is one of those systems where you blame the game, not the player
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Exactly this. I also have over 15 right now. I'm not "hoarding", these are programs I paid money to apply to because I genuinely wanted to go there, and now I have an opportunity to learn more about the program. We all worked hard to earn every single interview we get....I blame the system, not us.
 
iforget2 said:
Kinda glad you said this actually. I have 15 and a part of me feels bad for going on 15, but how will I know more about the program if I don’t interview with them? Programs that I thought were meh have turned out to be amazing and programs I thought were great have given me 2nd thought about where I rank them. This is one of those systems where you blame the game, not the player
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fldoctorgirl said:
Exactly this. I also have over 15 right now. I'm not "hoarding", these are programs I paid money to apply to because I genuinely wanted to go there, and now I have an opportunity to learn more about the program. We all worked hard to earn every single interview we get....I blame the system, not us.
Click to expand...
here here.

We worked hard to get these and all have specific needs and reasons for applying to the programs
 
iforget2 said:
Also M4, we’re pretty fortunate that our interviews are virtual for the most part bc that saves a lotttt of time and money. I have 10+ interviews all over the place and cannot even imagine how expensive it would be to travel to all these places. I have 1 in-person interview and I’m already dreading the cost of going there lol. Hopefully it’ll be at least a hybrid by the time you apply.
Click to expand...
It's convenient as far as time and money saved on travel but both applicants and programs miss out a little on how great of a fit they are for each other by not having that in-person interaction. When I was going through the process there were 2 programs I applied to that I thought would be nice places and after my interaction with them I didn't even rank them. It is nice to be able to see how the residents and leadership interact with each other and that is a lot more challenging to gauge from zoom. Not to mention I had a lot of fun hanging out with the fellow applicants and residents at the pre-interview socials.
 
diesel2202 said:
It's convenient as far as time and money saved on travel but both applicants and programs miss out a little on how great of a fit they are for each other by not having that in-person interaction. When I was going through the process there were 2 programs I applied to that I thought would be nice places and after my interaction with them I didn't even rank them. It is nice to be able to see how the residents and leadership interact with each other and that is a lot more challenging to gauge from zoom. Not to mention I had a lot of fun hanging out with the fellow applicants and residents at the pre-interview socials.
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plus my face looks fat over the webcam
 
My point is in previous years people cant do or wouldnt want to do 15 interviews.. maybe it has been fortunate for you.. but definitely not fortunate for everyone
 
fldoctorgirl said:
Exactly this. I also have over 15 right now. I'm not "hoarding", these are programs I paid money to apply to because I genuinely wanted to go there, and now I have an opportunity to learn more about the program. We all worked hard to earn every single interview we get....I blame the system, not us.
Click to expand...
Holy **** lmao 15?! Thats diesel lol only 2 weeks in. Im ecstatic for you
 
SmokinJay6 said:
I’m a senior resident

The whole “it gets better” trope is a total farce. In fact, it gets worse. If you’re an M1 and contemplating getting out I 100% would. If I could go back in time …
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I said it gets better until intern year then it gets worse and then attending life gets better i guess depending on what specialty youre in. If youre an attending and hate your job then why are you even in medicine. I know the specialty I am applying into (IM) has horrible hours as does OB and GS and those 3-5 years will suck no matter how you put it but being a fellow or an attending life does get better after speaking with many
 
SmokinJay6 said:
I’m a senior resident

The whole “it gets better” trope is a total farce. In fact, it gets worse. If you’re an M1 and contemplating getting out I 100% would. If I could go back in time …
Click to expand...

Do you see it getting better after residency though?
 
Deecee2DO said:
Sup ladies and gents,

Bored sitting here waiting for residency interviews and figured id hop on and answer any questions about med school in general, boards, preclinicals, shelves etc. I can also tell you if youre an M2 it does get better (until intern year lol)
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What advice would you have for someone that got accepted and is waiting to start medical school?
 
SmokinJay6 said:
I’m a senior resident

The whole “it gets better” trope is a total farce. In fact, it gets worse. If you’re an M1 and contemplating getting out I 100% would. If I could go back in time …
Click to expand...
That is the most Jay Cutler attitude I have ever heard. 10/10 choice in thumbnail and username 👌
 
Deecee2DO said:
Sup ladies and gents,

Bored sitting here waiting for residency interviews and figured id hop on and answer any questions about med school in general, boards, preclinicals, shelves etc. I can also tell you if youre an M2 it does get better (until intern year lol)
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You're a fourth-year student already??!! When did that happen?? You were just a pre-med like 3 days ago! Where did the time go??
 
Deecee2DO said:
Go on vacation and do as little as possible. Chill as hard as you can and please for the love of God do not prestudy lol
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Lol thanks I'm about to quit my cna job soon so I can do something less stressful until I start. I do want to see the ocean one more time before I start.
 
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