MA/MS, any difference to Adcoms?

[Twink]

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Is there a difference between a MA and a MS (in Biology) from an Adcom’s point of view? Would Adcoms be bias towards the MS because it is a Master of SCIENCE and disregard/look down on my performance if I have a MA? The school I plan to enroll at does not offer MS only MA. I would be working full time in a lab while taking classes so I do not want to do a thesis track even though there is one available for the MA program I am interested in.

Thanks

 

[phunky]

Yeah. One has an A in it and one has an S

 

[No Limits]

Is there a difference between a MA and a MS (in Biology) from an Adcom’s point of view? Would Adcoms be bias towards the MS because it is a Master of SCIENCE and disregard/look down on my performance if I have a MA? The school I plan to enroll at does not offer MS only MA. I would be working full time in a lab while taking classes so I do not want to do a thesis track even though there is one available for the MA program I am interested in.

Thanks

Unless you are doing a special masters program, an MS and MA are pretty useless unnecessary for medical school admission. There are other preferred options available such as an SMP or post bacc.

 

[dcamkl1]

Any masters degree (MA, MS, MPH, etc.) will not significantly influence an ADCOM's decision on your application. This is because not all people applying to medical school will have a master's degree, so it cannot be used to compare between applicants. Also, master's GPA is usually inflated and schools know this. In general, any degree received after your bachelor's (MA, PhD, professional degree, etc) is viewed as one big EC. However, if it is a passion of yours, then by all means go for it, but don't start one just for the sake of enhancing your application.

The only exceptions are SMPs (special masters program), where you literally take med school courses side-by-side w/ med students. These are geared for people with high MCAT, but low GPA. By doing well in an SMP, ADCOMs get reassurance that you can handle a typical med school curriculum.

 

[Twink]

Unless you are doing a special masters program, an MS and MA are pretty useless for medical school admission.

Any masters degree (MA, MS, MPH, etc.) will not significantly influence an ADCOM's decision on your application. This is because not all people applying to medical school will have a master's degree, so it cannot be used to compare between applicants. Also, master's GPA is usually inflated and schools know this. In general, any degree received after your bachelor's (MA, PhD, professional degree, etc) is viewed as one big EC. However, if it is a passion of yours, then by all means go for it, but don't start one just for the sake of enhancing your application.

The only exceptions are SMPs (special masters program), where you literally take med school courses side-by-side w/ med students. These are geared for people with high MCAT, but low GPA. By doing well in an SMP, ADCOMs get reassurance that you can handle a typical med school curriculum.

Yeah, I understand that but I wont be applying for another two years, the school is within walking distance (10mins) from where I currently work, and I probably wont have to pay for the tuition. So the way I look at it is a free degree that I can take my time getting and will serve as a fallback in case I decide to go in a different direction. I wouldn't go so far as to call MA/MS useless for medical school admission, it probably helps on some level albeit very minimally (commitment, etc.).

 

[Goro]

No

Is there a difference between a MA and a MS (in Biology) from an Adcom’s point of view?


No
Would Adcoms be bias towards the MS because it is a Master of SCIENCE and disregard/look down on my performance if I have a MA?


Just do well.

The school I plan to enroll at does not offer MS only MA. I would be working full time in a lab while taking classes so I do not want to do a thesis track even though there is one available for the MA program I am interested in.

 

[touchpause13]

OP:

I don't think a master's (MA, MS, or MPH) would significantly affect your application one way or another. Do it if you are interested and can pay for it I guess.

Also nice name *snicker*

 

[No Limits]

OP:

I don't think a master's (MA, MS, or MPH) would significantly affect your application one way or another. Do it if you are interested and can pay for it I guess.

Also nice name *snicker*

Lol I completely missed that.

 

[BurberryDoc]

Unless you are doing a special masters program, an MS and MA are pretty useless for medical school admission.

Well this is entirely false.

3.3 undergrad GPA and a 30 MCAT.

3.8+ GPA in a traditional masters program


I currently hold 2 MD acceptances.

Do you think my undergrad GPA or MCAT made a big splash? Doubtful.

 

[No Limits]

Well this is entirely false.

3.3 undergrad GPA and a 30 MCAT.

3.8+ GPA in a traditional masters program


I currently hold 2 MD acceptances.

Do you think my undergrad GPA or MCAT made a big splash? Doubtful.

Congrats?

Have you even read the comments on this thread?

Just because you think your traditional masters program helped you get into medical school doesn't make it the norm. I imagined there might have been several factors that might have gotten you accepted. Factors that include other pertinent information from your app, how well you interview, and which schools actually did accept you. I'm happy for you but no future premed should make the mistake of doing a masters for the sake of medical school admissions, as your GPA is weighted differently compared to your undergraduate GPA. There are better options out there that have already been stated on this thread and countless other threads. My response was aimed to save op money. However, op has already stated, after my initial post, that he is doing it for something to "fall back on" if things don't work out.

 

[BurberryDoc]

Congrats?

Have you even read the comments on this thread?

Just because you think your traditional masters program helped you get into medical school doesn't make it the norm. I imagined there might have been several factors that might have gotten you accepted. Factors that include other pertinent information from your app, how well you interview, and which schools actually did accept you. I'm happy for you but no future premed should make the mistake of doing a masters for the sake of medical school admissions, as your GPA is weighted differently compared to your undergraduate GPA. There are better options out there that have already been stated on this thread and countless other threads. My response was aimed to save op money. However, op has already stated, after my initial post, that he is doing it for something to "fall back on" if things don't work out.

SMP is the best, I will concede that point, but show me data that supports doing a traditional MA/MS puts an applicant at a disadvantage. And for the love of christ, don't patronize me with that "you think" nonsense, I am fully aware of what made my application shine.

 

[alpinism]

Congrats?

Have you even read the comments on this thread?

Just because you think your traditional masters program helped you get into medical school doesn't make it the norm. I imagined there might have been several factors that might have gotten you accepted. Factors that include other pertinent information from your app, how well you interview, and which schools actually did accept you. I'm happy for you but no future premed should make the mistake of doing a masters for the sake of medical school admissions, as your GPA is weighted differently compared to your undergraduate GPA. There are better options out there that have already been stated on this thread and countless other threads. My response was aimed to save op money. However, op has already stated, after my initial post, that he is doing it for something to "fall back on" if things don't work out.

While not the norm, there are a handful of med schools out there that give equal weight to uGPA and gGPA.

Tulane and Wayne State are 2 examples.

Of course, doing a post bacc or SMP would be by far the best option for most premeds with low GPAs trying to get into med school.

However, you if have a solid GPA and are interested in research/academics, a traditional masters (MS or MA) may be helpful in certain situations.

 

[No Limits]

While not the norm, there are a handful of med schools out there that give equal weight to uGPA and gGPA.

Tulane and Wayne State are 2 examples.

Of course, doing a post bacc or SMP would be by far the best option for most premeds with low GPAs trying to get into med school.

However, you if have a solid GPA and are interested in research/academics, a traditional masters (MS or MA) may be helpful in certain situations.

Hmm interesting... I have not heard or seen this before on here, thanks.

For applicants with a lower than average GPA and MCAT I can't see how a traditional masters could be helpful.

Given the amount of schools I have researched, practically all weigh uGPA differently compared gGPA. I don't doubt there schools that do, I just have not really come across them. Which is concerning to me because if a premed had lower than average stats, wouldn't they need to apply broadly?

Again, my initial response was meant to save op money if he had a low GPA and was considering a traditional masters rather than SMP or post bacc... This seems to be common mistake premeds make on here and at my institution. With that said, although its possible to be successful doing this route, I would not encourage it over the other routes.

@BurberryDoc might have been successful but from I have read on here from the adcoms, residents, and med students its just not worth it to me. I don't have the money to throw around for "one big EC" and I assume most college students do not either.

 

[notbobtrustme]

PhD > SMP => MS w/ thesis >>>>>>>>>> everything else.

 

[BurberryDoc]

Hmm interesting... I have not heard or seen this before on here, thanks.

For applicants with a lower than average GPA and MCAT I can't see how a traditional masters could be helpful.

Given the amount of schools I have researched, practically all weigh uGPA differently compared gGPA. I don't doubt there schools that do, I just have not really come across them. Which is concerning to me because if a premed had lower than average stats, wouldn't they need to apply broadly?

Again, my initial response was meant to save op money if he had a low GPA and was considering a traditional masters rather than SMP or post bacc... This seems to be common mistake premeds make on here and at my institution. With that said, although its possible to be successful doing this route, I would not encourage it over the other routes.

@BurberryDoc might have been successful but from I have read on here from the adcoms, residents, and med students its just not worth it to me. I don't have the money to throw around for "one big EC" and I assume most college students do not either.

Might have? Ahem, recently accepted to a top 40 University...

It doesn't count as "one big EC" because it shows up are a separate calculated GPA in the academics portion of the AMCAS. Certainly, the EC's I have done while in graduate school were put in the work/activities section, but to diminish my efforts as a graduate student to "an extracurricular" is not only insulting, but inaccurate. As a graduate student, I tutored 1st year medical students and just this past week I have started to clarify certain questions/statements on the Step I forums, as a result of my graduate classes. So, extracurricular? Not.

Not everyone gets accepted to SMP? So what do those students do? Wait a year? Try again? There is this thing called STUDENT LOANS, and so far I have not paid a cent for my graduate degree. Yeah, it's a pain in the ass shelling out the extra $40K for a degree, but most people wouldn't find themselves in this position in the first place if they got college "right" the first time around. As stated before, show me hard evidence that suggests a traditional masters degree puts an applicant at a disadvantage. As far as I understand it, any degree beyond Bachelor's goes in the "plus" column.

 

[No Limits]

Might have? Ahem, recently accepted to a top 40 University...

It doesn't count as "one big EC" because it shows up are a separate calculated GPA in the academics portion of the AMCAS. Certainly, the EC's I have done while in graduate school were put in the work/activities section, but to diminish my efforts as a graduate student to "an extracurricular" is not only insulting, but inaccurate. As a graduate student, I tutored 1st year medical students and just this past week I have started to clarify certain questions/statements on the Step I forums, as a result of my graduate classes. So, extracurricular? Not.

Not everyone gets accepted to SMP? So what do those students do? Wait a year? Try again? There is this thing called STUDENT LOANS, and so far I have not paid a cent for my graduate degree. Yeah, it's a pain in the ass shelling out the extra $40K for a degree, but most people wouldn't find themselves in this position in the first place if they got college "right" the first time around. As stated before, show me hard evidence that suggests a traditional masters degree puts an applicant at a disadvantage. As far as I understand it, any degree beyond Bachelor's goes in the "plus" column.

There was a reason why I ignored your previous comment. You are way too sensitive.

When I said a masters degree was like one big EC I was citing a another poster on this thread who seems more enlightened on the subject. Again, have you read the thread? You claim what I said was insulting though you have said nothing to posters who have pretty much said the same thing.

I never said it puts you at a disadvantage, I just don't see it giving you any advantage considering the stats you provided. Although I'm happy it worked out for you, all I was saying is just because something worked out for you doesn't mean it will work out for everyone else. There are too many variables to consider... While not everyone gets accepted doing an SMP we have already agreed that is the best option. Post bacc is also a great option.

Get that chip off your shoulder already.... For the record this is my last comment to you on this matter because I honestly don't care. If you think students with lower stats should complete a traditional masters program that's fine.

 

[BurberryDoc]

There was a reason why I ignored your previous comment. You are way too sensitive.

When I said a masters degree was like one big EC I was citing a another poster on this thread who seems more enlightened on the subject. Again, have you read the thread? You claim what I said was insulting though you have said nothing to posters who have pretty much said the same thing.

I never said it puts you at a disadvantage, I just don't see it giving you any advantage considering the stats you provided. Although I'm happy it worked out for you, all I was saying is just because something worked out for you doesn't mean it will work out for everyone else. There are too many variables to consider... While not everyone gets accepted doing an SMP we have already agreed that is the best option. Post bacc is also a great option.

Get that chip off your shoulder already.... For the record this is my last comment to you on this matter because I honestly don't care. If you think students with lower stats should complete a traditional masters program that's fine.

l.m.a.o. chip on my shoulder.
I'm responding to you because you tagged me in a post. For someone who hasn't even applied to medical school yet, you seem very sure of yourself.

A 3.3 GPA and a 30 MCAT is considered a dysmal set of stats. There is an advantage to having completed an M.S. (traditional.) It's not ideal, but its advantageous. Who knows?! Maybe you'll end up with no acceptances and find yourself doing a Master's degree ;-)

Sweet dream, Champ.

 

[HeadEast2014]

Well this is entirely false.

3.3 undergrad GPA and a 30 MCAT.

3.8+ GPA in a traditional masters program


I currently hold 2 MD acceptances.

Do you think my undergrad GPA or MCAT made a big splash? Doubtful.

I think a strong application requires a cohesive narrative that paints a picture of who you are. It sounds like Burberry did a great job of flowing that experience into a fuller picture of his/herself. Other applicants may not emphasis it in their applications and thus later say that it wasn't important to them. Or, people might go into medical school without a Masters (like me) and then downplay it because they didn't get one.

In short, who really knows how any particular adcom thinks? People get accepted as a whole person (which sucks, because I love quantitative data...)

Twink: if you want to do it, go for it. But certainly don't feel obligated to.

Also, I have no idea about MS vs MA... lol

 

[HeadEast2014]

Well this is entirely false.

3.3 undergrad GPA and a 30 MCAT.

3.8+ GPA in a traditional masters program


I currently hold 2 MD acceptances.

Do you think my undergrad GPA or MCAT made a big splash? Doubtful.

Also: Congrats!

 

[BurberryDoc]

Also: Congrats!

Thanks, I'll be an M.D., against all odds!

 

[Aerus]

Well this is entirely false.

3.3 undergrad GPA and a 30 MCAT.

3.8+ GPA in a traditional masters program


I currently hold 2 MD acceptances.

Do you think my undergrad GPA or MCAT made a big splash? Doubtful.

You give yourself too little credit. A 3.3, while not the best situation to be in, is not a complete deal breaker. A 30 MCAT, contrary to what SDN says, is a GOOD MCAT. And a Master's Program is much better research experience than what a typical undergrad does.

Does getting a high GPA in a Master's program help overcome a subpar uGPA? Adcoms on SDN seem to lean towards no. Is an MS useless? Absolutely not. Not many applicants get do intellectual research and write a thesis for it. In my opinion, what you actually do during the MS is far more valuable than the GPA you get.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Hmm interesting... I have not heard or seen this before on here, thanks.

For applicants with a lower than average GPA and MCAT I can't see how a traditional masters could be helpful.

Given the amount of schools I have researched, practically all weigh uGPA differently compared gGPA. I don't doubt there schools that do, I just have not really come across them. Which is concerning to me because if a premed had lower than average stats, wouldn't they need to apply broadly?

Again, my initial response was meant to save op money if he had a low GPA and was considering a traditional masters rather than SMP or post bacc... This seems to be common mistake premeds make on here and at my institution. With that said, although its possible to be successful doing this route, I would not encourage it over the other routes.

@BurberryDoc might have been successful but from I have read on here from the adcoms, residents, and med students its just not worth it to me. I don't have the money to throw around for "one big EC" and I assume most college students do not either.

The grad GPA thing has been debunked by a few threads on SDN, you just need to search around a little bit. Anyway you are right in saying that an SMP is far more beneficial, but a masters degree for some schools do matter.

My state school in Hawaii weighs both the ugGPA and gGPA equally. Also, they assign points for certain criteria in your application. They give one point for having a masters and two points for having a PhD. I think University of Irvine does this also, but I am not sure. Alpinism is correct about Wayne state (I know there are more schools that take the gGPA into account, but I need to look at the older threads to be sure). So a handful of schools do take a masters seriously.

I know the public health chair and he speaks with the assistant admissions dean sometimes at my state school. The chair said to me that they do prefer applicants with a science M.S. over an M.P.H., since it is science intensive.

@ OP you will hear varying opinions about this, but just know that once you are in a masters program treat it like undergrad, because it will matter to some schools.

 

[BurberryDoc]

Also, to "debunk" this nonsense about GPA inflation in graduate school, here is a list of my course averages and the final grade I received:

98.6 - A
90.15 - A minus
87.2 - B plus
84.3 - B
97.5 - A
91.4 - A minus
96.6 - A
93 - A minus

So, please tell me what grading system this would seem like grade inflation. Certainly this cannot represent all graduate programs, but it's the only graduate program I went into, and under the impression that there was probably grade inflation. Turns out that is not the case at all ;-)

 

[HeadEast2014]

Also, to "debunk" this nonsense about GPA inflation in graduate school, here is a list of my course averages and the final grade I received:

98.6 - A
90.15 - A minus
87.2 - B plus
84.3 - B
97.5 - A
91.4 - A minus
96.6 - A
93 - A minus

So, please tell me what grading system this would seem like grade inflation. Certainly this cannot represent all graduate programs, but it's the only graduate program I went into, and under the impression that there was probably grade inflation. Turns out that is not the case at all ;-)

I think "grade inflation" refers to awarding a higher percent of the class A's or B's (that is, making it easier to get an 80% or 90%, rather than changing the grading scale). But I don't have any info as to whether it's an actual thing or not for Masters programs.

 

[BurberryDoc]

I think "grade inflation" refers to awarding a higher percent of the class A's or B's (that is, making it easier to get an 80% or 90%, rather than changing the grading scale). But I don't have any info as to whether it's an actual thing or not for Masters programs.

Oh, I see. Hahaha, well I can assure you that isn't happening at my program - I would say (there are about 40-50 of us) and only about 10 people are ever happy with their grade. I think the only course I've taken in this program that may be suspect for some marginal inflation was our histology class, but I've never been on the low-side so I can't say for sure as I have not ever benefitted from this. For the remainder of the courses, I can assure that it is not an inflated GPA. My 3.8+ is mine, all mine. Earned 🙂

 

[BurberryDoc]

It is an actual thing at my university at least. I've taken many classes that are combined undergrad and grad. Undergrad students and grad students took the same assignments and exams (except that the grad students sometimes had a extra questions to do), but their grades were curved separately. The undergrad average always curved to a B- and the grad average curved to a B+ even though the undergrad averages were usually higher than the grad averages. The way one professor explained it is that grad students have to do more work than the undergrads in these combined classes, and the grade inflation is meant to account for that.

Sure wish I went to your University. Maybe I'd have a 4.0 gradGPA haha

 

[Aerus]

Sure wish I went to your University. Maybe I'd have a 4.0 gradGPA haha

My school's grad program is similar. Sometimes, simply showing up and running your experiments in a timely manner while doing the required reading was enough to get an A. I've met a few grad students with 4.0's.

 

[BurberryDoc]

My school's grad program is similar. Sometimes, simply showing up and running your experiments in a timely manner while doing the required reading was enough to get an A. I've met a few grad students with 4.0's.

There are only two students in our program wit ha 4.0 Ironically, one works full time and I have no idea how she manages. Even more ironically, the other one smokes a brick of weed per week, I swear it. I have no idea how they manage to pull off a 4.0, but I think it involves alot of cramming. I feel like I retain it better by not cramming - I've even been able to contribute to the Step I boards on stuff I haven't looked at in a year. Kinda cool.