MA Program - Waste of Time?

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psychick

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I applied to 10 PhD programs this year and none of them seem to be turning in my favor. (1250GRE, 690 Psych GRE, 3.5 GPA from school outside USA)
I decided to forward my application to the (terminal) MA department at Boston University, which doesn't train students for licensure, but instead, is built specifically to strengthen the credentials of hopeful PhD students. I have received unofficial word that I have been recommended for admission.

Is this a wise step? Is it just going to be a waste of time and money on my part? Should I just wait out another year and reapply this coming fall to the MA-PhD program?

Your thoughts are highly appreciated!
 
You may want to speak with Dr. Perlitsh - she runs the M.A. program in General Psychology at BU. I have heard from faculty in that department that they specifically tell M.A. students "don't expect to get in." to their Clinical Ph.D. program. #'s wise, the BU Clinical Ph.D. program is the toughest to get into in the country (517 applicants last year, and I believe they accepted 3). So they clearly show no favoritism toward their M.A. students (unfortunately).

Boston University has some other licensure-track programs. An M.A. in Mental Health and Behavioral Medicine at the Medical Campus. And an M.Ed. program in Counseling Psychology at the School of Education (both lead to LMHC licensure)

The M.A. in Psychology program is only 8 courses (and you pick the 8, there's no specific plan of study). If you want something quick, go for it - but otherwise I'd look into some other schools offering Master's degrees in General Psych if you're looking for a research-focused Master's degree. Some that will offer better research opportunities - and it's not too late to apply to them. I believe NYU, Catholic University, and William and Mary have well known M.A. programs.

And no, a Master's is no waste of time at all! In fact it may help you find a focus and help you get into a Ph.D. program next time around (it did for me!).

Jon
 
I'd generally only recommend a master's if you have a specific weakness that an MS/MA can fill. A low GPA, inadequate research experience to the point that finding an RA job is difficult, or even something as simple as you feel like you need more general exposure in order to narrow down your interests, etc..

Assuming your application isn't lacking anything in particular that a master's can help make up for, I feel like finding a solid RA job should be the default. If its a good one, you can often get as much or more out of this in the way of experience, networking, etc. Its more of a gray area with a funded master's, but I definitely think an unfunded master's would really require a compelling reason to pursue. Its hard to justify taking on the debt if working would be just as good for your CV. In addition to the pay aspect, generally people that are hiring project coordinators are the folks getting large grants, which generally equates with being well known and well respected as a researcher. Again, depending on the position, you may get to know them far better than you would most faculty members which may translate to a much better letter than the "Jim got an A in my class and seems like a good guy".

That said, if there IS a compelling reason to choose the master's, I'm not trying to discourage it by any means. Just make sure that you're doing it because you expect it to fill a specific gap in your application, and not just because you didn't get in.
 
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Remember as well that a master's is not exclusive of an RA position, and especially not exclusive of research in general.

I would second Ollie's point about correcting a specific deficit in your application, and only add the above - even if you're correcting a low GPA, you can still take this time to get extra research experience (and maybe a publication!). A master's program is almost never as all-consuming as a PhD program.
 
Jon4PsyD said:
And no, a Master's is no waste of time at all! In fact it may help you find a focus and help you get into a Ph.D. program next time around (it did for me!).

Jon
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I just wanted to second this notion - I think an MA/MS can really strengthen an application the next time around as it did for Jon as well as myself. Assuming you do well in the program, it can show the schools you apply too that you can handle graduate level work. Also, (speaking of MA programs in general as I'm not familiar with BU) you will likely gain more work experience through externships/internships/practicum/etc and it can help you narrow your focus if you do not know what your specific interests are yet. Can't say much about BU specifically but overall, I think a Master's can be a very helpful step for anyone who does not get into a PsyD or PhD program the first time around.
 
As someone who is about get an MA from a top-ranked general psych program, I will say that getting an MA can indeed strengthen your application. I believe I was a much better applicant this time around with my research experience, statistics training, and general graduate school experience. Don't discount the master's option. 😉
 
To Jon4PsyD: It was Dr. Perlitsh actually who gave me the unofficial news. Did you also apply for the MA program at BU before? (I assumed this because you know/know of Dr. Perlitsh) What are some of the things you liked/disliked about the program?

The cost of the program really worries me (around 37k/year for 18 units accdg to the website) with little or no funding from the department plus the high cost of living in Boston. I know that the Clinical PhD program at BU is highly ranked, but I haven't heard much about the MA program. That being said, I think I can learn a lot by getting an MA, and can get RA positions on the side to add to my resume as FranklinR said. It seems like the next best option at this point (and BU has a gorgeous campus to boot)!

Thanks for your responses everyone! (I wonder how people got through this process pre-SDN!)
 
Eastern Michigan University has a good Masters program that funds 2 out of 7 people, and often their MS students get into their PhD program.
 
It doesn't seem to me that you should go the masters route unless you have to. Most programs will make you redo most of what you've done already, & it typically just prolongs grad school for you. I think you'd be better served by working as an RA for a year & reapplying.
 
My thoughts....
$37,000+ a year for an MA program sounds like a lot of money to me, especially since they will not guarantee you a place in the PhD program. If you do decide to take the MA route, perhaps you could attend a funded program, there are loads around... their deadlines for this year are probably over though 🙁
All the best.... seems like you have a tough decision to make.
 
It sounds like a lot of money to me, too! sigh. 🙁

runningrage said:
My thoughts....
$37,000+ a year for an MA program sounds like a lot of money to me, especially since they will not guarantee you a place in the PhD program. If you do decide to take the MA route, perhaps you could attend a funded program, there are loads around... their deadlines for this year are probably over though 🙁
All the best.... seems like you have a tough decision to make.
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I also applied to 10 Phd programs (1280GRE, 3.5 GPA, 2 years lab work and 1 poster presentation). I was accepted into two, but they were extremely expensive professional schools that were not a good fit for me. I got a last minute call today from my undergrad advisor offering me a spot in the MA program. This is how I have come to make my decisions: I have to say, after resigning myself to take a year off, and realizing there are very few research assistantships anywhere in a 3 state radius, I don't think it is a waste of time at all. I applied a temporary VA research position about 3 hours away, and I may have gotten that job by the summer--I would then only have a few months of extra experience by the fall when I would be re applying. I would really need to wait another year before a RA-ship would even strengthen my app. 2 years either way. Also, my program often accepts their MA students into PhD, I will have my MA in case things don't work out for any reason, and If need be, I will be able to reapply for PhD programs with extra research/clinical experience. I'm not sure about BU, but I know that assistantships are available to MA students at my school, even if they are somewhere outside the department (academic counseling, administrative stuff, etc).

I couldn't be happier about getting that call today!!! They really pushed it to the last second (march 31st!!) It may not be right for you, but I really think that BU's program would make you more competitive and prepare you much better than a RA job. There is almost always money available
 
I don't know if you are very familiar with boston but:
Technically BU doesn't really have a campus. However what would techinically be called the "campus" is a really nice part of Boston. The majority of the school is on Comm Ave and is pretty much incorporated into the city. Luckily for you that means there is a LOT of housing. I technically live on BU's south campus -- the Fenway (even though I go to a neighboring school) and I pay 1200 for a studio apartment. However , there are a LOT of areas that you could live cheaply. If you end up going to BU, look into the Allston/Brighton area. You may even be interested in the town of Brookline. A lot of BU students living off campus who go to school on the Charles River campus tend to live in all of those areas. However, unlike the PhD program, I do believe that the MA program is over at the Medical Campus. I currently work there in lieu of one of my classes and find that the area is not the NICEST of places (the area where the school is is very clean and nice but it's surrounded by run-down buildings and violence) and is about a 30 minute bus ride or a 15 minute BU shuttle ride away from their charles river campus (It is impossible to walk there- so don't try it- it takes like an hour). If you know the right places to look- and perhaps be willing to live with someone- living near BU won't be too terrible. If you end up having the majority of your clases at the medical campus, you could live in the South End, or maybe Roxbury. However, no matter where you live, luckily everyhing is a bus/train ride away and montly T passes can come in VERY handy.

Also, one of my co-workers is a student in BU's Mental Health and Behavioral Medicine MA program--- I am not sure if that is similiar to the program you're interested in. She has enjoyed it and finds the classes to be interesting. She is now currently looking for an RA job in NY and is having a difficult time. I don't know if it has anything to do with the respectibility of BU's master programs.

If you end up goig to BU and need help with what places are good to live- feel free to PM me. I would be happy to help you in any way.

psychick said:
To Jon4PsyD: It was Dr. Perlitsh actually who gave me the unofficial news. Did you also apply for the MA program at BU before? (I assumed this because you know/know of Dr. Perlitsh) What are some of the things you liked/disliked about the program?

The cost of the program really worries me (around 37k/year for 18 units accdg to the website) with little or no funding from the department plus the high cost of living in Boston. I know that the Clinical PhD program at BU is highly ranked, but I haven't heard much about the MA program. That being said, I think I can learn a lot by getting an MA, and can get RA positions on the side to add to my resume as FranklinR said. It seems like the next best option at this point (and BU has a gorgeous campus to boot)!

Thanks for your responses everyone! (I wonder how people got through this process pre-SDN!)
Click to expand...
 
Oh good, I was wondering if I was mistaken in my knowledge of Roxbury as not a good area (I've never been to Boston, but it's referred to as a slum in the Legally Blonde musical. 😉)
 
I lived in Roxbury last year. Although it does have some VERY bad parts, I was referring to Mission Hill. Mission Hill is populated by mostly college students (and some families). Although there is some drug usage there, that is pretty consistant with most parts of Boston. Although Legally Blonde said something about Roxbury (i have no memory of that at all but I'll take your word for it) it's the same with any part of the city. I live on the Fenway. There are some really nice places here and everyone thinks it's a very nice area, but at least once a week there is a mugging outside of my building on the Fens. Living in Boston you have to expect that there is some sort of danger going outside even if it is very unlikely that you will be affected. Living in the part of Roxbury that is right next to the Med School wouldn't be that dangerous. Sure there might be some robberies, but that is pretty characteristic of Boston in general.If you have any other suggestions be my guest and pass them along to him/her.

Anon15 said:
Yup, that is pretty accurate. The small, very, very small part of Roxbury that borders the South End is okay, but I would argue that is very dangerous at night.

http://www.universalhub.com/crime/roxbury.html
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AryaStark said:
Although Legally Blonde said something about Roxbury (i have no memory of that at all but I'll take your word for it)
Click to expand...

It's only in the stage show, not the original movie. Goes: "I grew up in the Roxbury slums, with my mom and a series of bums"
 
To be quite honest, I'm really finding your comments to be unneccessary and obnoxious. All I was trying to do was give the person some options for where he/she could live cheaply and the better parts of Mission Hill serve that purpose. Obviously PhD students don't get paid that well, and especially if you are living in Boston, your money doesn't go that far. You seem to like to pick fights- something that comes in handy with law, not psychology.

Have you ever lived in Missions Hill? I have walked in Mission Hill alone at night many many times. Not the smartest, but sometimes it's necessary. Not once did I have any problems. I also know many other students who live here who have NEVER had trouble. Additionally, the majority of the crime in Mission Hill is between people who know each other. Your apartment might get broken into (NOT LIKELY) but you won't get "stabbed and killed" like you are claiming. I have gone to school here for four years, and have lived just outside the city my entire life. I don't know what part of Mission Hill YOU are talking about but Calumet, St. Alph, and that whole area is ALL college students. Maybe there are some projects like those blue buildings but the majority of the area near Huntington Ave (which is what I'm referring to) is all homes converted into apartments. If you go up to Iroquois and down into the deep part of Mission Hill, then yes you're right... it's not that great of an area. However to say an entire area is bad just because one piece of it is is very ignorant.

Also, how can you say there isn't much drug use in Boston? It might not always be marijuana or whatever crap you're talking about but there is substance abuse anywhere. I know people who live in BEACON hill who abuse drugs, I know people who live in the theatre district who do,china town, you name it, i've heard it. It is EVERYWHERE, so I don't know where you are getting your facts from.

Where is it that you have lived when you were in Boston, hm?

Anon15 said:
Yeah, I know Mission Hill. Do you know its nickname? Just like Savin Hill, Stab n' kill.




And projects...



Totally disagree




Not really...

I have live in the Boston for a looooong time and feel I know the city pretty well.
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haha. Well that is inaccurate. All the bums are in Kenmore Square! haha. And what's his/her face can argue that, but I'll get some pictures next time I'm there. Probably tomorrow- SEASON OPENER!

cara susanna said:
It's only in the stage show, not the original movie. Goes: "I grew up in the Roxbury slums, with my mom and a series of bums"
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Legally Blonde the Musical be inaccurate? Nooo, I do not believe you! 😉
 
🙂 I did like the movie better, though. I saw the musical on MTV once while I was at the gym. While I was working in Harvard Square this summer I saw the big guy from the movie who was Elle's friend. He was just hanging out outside a toy store with a little kid on his shoulders. My friend and I went up to him and we were like, hey that's so cool you were in Legallly Blonde right? And he just went on and on about how famous he was and how he was in other things and how he's so great. I went on his IMDB. His most noteworthy performance was in Not Another Teen Movie as "uninterested guy" Literally.. Look it up. hahhah

cara susanna said:
Legally Blonde the Musical be inaccurate? Nooo, I do not believe you! 😉
Click to expand...
 
Oh, Dorky David? That's so funny!

I love the movie. The musical would have been good (the score is catchy enough) if the book for it hadn't been so terrible. UGH.
 
That's the guy. He's actually pretty attractive in person. Who would have known..

cara susanna said:
Oh, Dorky David? That's so funny!

I love the movie. The musical would have been good (the score is catchy enough) if the book for it hadn't been so terrible. UGH.
Click to expand...
 
Don't respond, that's fine. However I want to make it clear that just because someone challenges your opinions doesn't make that person immature. I think I made my point perfectly clear, and was in no way childish. Additionally, I wasn't initially trying to debate the safety of Mission Hill, I was merely trying to give him/her all possible options. It seems to me that you were the one trying to pick a fight-- that is something that warrants the type of comment that you just sent my way. I read some of your previous posts. Your combative posting yesterday and today is pretty consistent with the overall tone of your past postings. I wish you nothing but the best, but please try to remain open minded in the future. Not everyone agrees with you, and not all low income areas in Boston (unlike around Harvard) are bad.

After reading your edits:
1. I am trying to figure out how my post was "foolish." Is it because I supported my opinions and you just made bold statements with no evidence?

2. Displaced anger? Perhaps I capitalized some words, but that was for emphasis, not anger. I apologize if you got the two confused- it happens on message boards.

3. You might also want to edit the whole thing about "not wasting" your time to respond... because you sort of.. did.

Anon15 said:
Not going to waste my time responding....grow up
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Anyway Cara, back to Musicals. I've read that a lot of musicals are SUPER cheap lately because of the recession. I heard something about "15 for 15" : http://www.playbill.com/news/article/127931.html

However, you seem like a huge musical buff. I'm sure you were already all over that haha.
 
I'm not because I don't live in NYC so I'm afraid it doesn't affect me. 😀 I am a huge musical buff, however, so you are right about that! I'm hoping to catch one when I'm in NYC for ABCT in November (assuming our poster gets accepted, that is).
 
I'm right there with you on the NYC ABCT. I finished the proposal as I was running out the door to interview for a program haha. I have seen a few shows, but my favorite by far was Wicked. I saw it before it opened in NYC (there were two shows that were for pre-audiences-- my mom got tickets for my 18th birthday). At the time, my mom had just gotten the tickets because she liked the book. I was so surprised how great it was and how much of a sensation it became. I tend to think those are the best-- the gems you don't expect Spamelot was pretty good too, though. Is Dirty Dancing your favorite?

cara susanna said:
I'm not because I don't live in NYC so I'm afraid it doesn't affect me. 😀 I am a huge musical buff, however, so you are right about that! I'm hoping to catch one when I'm in NYC for ABCT in November (assuming our poster gets accepted, that is).
Click to expand...
 
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decided to throw in my two cents on the Roxbury living area re: Anon15 and Arya's debate.

I went to BU and lived in the South Campus area, and had friends who lived on Mission Hill. It's really not that bad. It seems sketchy when you're walking around at night by yourself, but I never had any problems. The worst thing you might get is running into a pack of drunk college kids screaming at the top of their lungs, and while that can be pretty obnoxious, it's not what I'd call dangerous.

So, I'm casting my lot with Arya here. Also, check out Allston. It's not a bad area, lots of BU students live there. I lived and worked there for a summer and it was a pretty nice area with a lot of pretty solid places to eat for cheap.
 
Nice handle. It's frakin solid.

SamAnders said:
decided to throw in my two cents on the Roxbury living area re: Anon15 and Arya's debate.

I went to BU and lived in the South Campus area, and had friends who lived on Mission Hill. It's really not that bad. It seems sketchy when you're walking around at night by yourself, but I never had any problems. The worst thing you might get is running into a pack of drunk college kids screaming at the top of their lungs, and while that can be pretty obnoxious, it's not what I'd call dangerous.

So, I'm casting my lot with Arya here. Also, check out Allston. It's not a bad area, lots of BU students live there. I lived and worked there for a summer and it was a pretty nice area with a lot of pretty solid places to eat for cheap.
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Keep in mind that anyone describing Boston area rents as cheap is doing so relatively. Boston is one of the most over-inflated real estate markets anywhere, so unless you're coming from NYC, SF or maybe a few other places, be prepared to be blown away by how much you'll spend on rent and what you'll get for it...

Also, Mission Hill is not the sort of place where you take your life in your hands walking down the street, but it is the sort of place where if you have a car, it may well get broken in to, and I might be concerned walking alone at night re: muggings. Same with certain areas of the South End (I have several friends who have been mugged). Allston is a hot spot for apartment break-ins, so if you go there, be sure your place is well secured and check the police logs before you rent (good in any neighborhood really) and also be prepared for tons of undergrad neighbors.
 
Thanks to everyone who've offered their opinions, I really appreciate it! 🙂Right now, my choices are between palo alto and boston, so in terms of cost of living, I think they're quite equal. I will definitely be looking into the places mentioned by the posters. Thanks again and good luck everyone!
 
AryaStark said:
I'm right there with you on the NYC ABCT. I finished the proposal as I was running out the door to interview for a program haha. I have seen a few shows, but my favorite by far was Wicked. I saw it before it opened in NYC (there were two shows that were for pre-audiences-- my mom got tickets for my 18th birthday). At the time, my mom had just gotten the tickets because she liked the book. I was so surprised how great it was and how much of a sensation it became. I tend to think those are the best-- the gems you don't expect Spamelot was pretty good too, though. Is Dirty Dancing your favorite?
Click to expand...

Right now my favorite show currently on Broadway is either West Side Story--okay, the actual production is pretty awful, but it's still a fantastic show--or In the Heights. I'm also very excited about Next to Normal, which is a rock musical about a family struggling with their mother's bipolar disorder, but haven't heard the full cast recording yet (it comes out May 12, IIRC). My favorite musicals ever, as in currently not on Broadway, are Miss Saigon, The Light in the Piazza, Parade, Passion, and Ragtime. Actually, it's a huge list, but those are the ones at the top. 😉

I'm not that big a fan of Wicked, but I find its composer, Stephen Schwartz, very hit and miss. I like a few songs from it, though.
 
I dont think the MA route is a waste of time...I am graduating from my MA in May and got into a PhD program for the fall...The MA helped me with my application to be able to get into a PhD...in addition they are accepting my masters thesis and a few classes...however a RA might be a better route too for you...best of luck
 
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