Made an absolute mess out of undergrad...now I want to go to med school

[speedbird27]

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Title says it all. Ironically, one of the biggest reasons for my lackluster academic performance is the underlying reason I want to be a doctor in the first place. I became an EMT the summer before my freshman year and joined the volunteer fire department near campus. I loved EMS so much that I ended up moving into the fire station full time, spending nearly every night of the week riding an ambulance or a fire truck. All of my free time was spent running calls, training, or reading up on EMS topics...school was more of a second priority. After a rough year and a particularly horrific engineering internship, I decided to essentially drop out of undergrad and go to community college to become a paramedic. A year later, paramedic cert fresh in hand, I gave in to my parents' pleas and went back to finish my undergrad degree. At the time, I was fully intent on getting a job as a career Firefighter/Paramedic, so I picked a major (Physics) for the primary reason that I could finish it the quickest, given my previous coursework and AP credit. I actually really did enjoy my Physics courses (and did pretty well in them)...the remainder of my gen eds, not so much. Throughout this time I continued to live in the fire station and spent literally countless hours volunteering as a paramedic.

During my senior year, I somehow managed to talk my way into an engineering internship with a local defense contractor, with a firm full-time position waiting for me upon graduation. The work was very interesting, and due to a variety of circumstances I ended up effectively working full time hours while still in school. Work and EMS were tied for my highest priority activities, with school a very distant third. Well something had to give, so I dropped/flunked out of my last semester of school with a few credits remaining, did the whole cap and gown thing to make the parents happy, and officially started my new "adult" job with no one the wiser. I finished up the remaining courses over the next year or two and finally graduated with probably the most bizarre transcript on record: major GPA of about 3.7, science GPA of about 3.4, and an overall GPA of about 2.7 (thank you, straight C's in almost all of my gen eds and failing English twice). Note that this does not include about 45 credits of straight A's in paramedic school, whatever that counts for.

I'm 25 now, and hopefully a little less dumb and a little more mature. I still enjoy my work as an engineer, but it's not something I see myself doing for the rest of my life. My passion and true calling is emergency medicine. I've continued to work/volunteer as a paramedic (though in a different system) about 20 hours a week, doing a mix of 911 and critical care transport. I've furthered my education by taking classes in critical care, flight medicine, and others, and I spend most of my free time self studying A+P and other more advanced topics related to EM. The more I learn, however, the more I realize I'm quickly approaching the limit of my ability to quench my thirst for medical knowledge that I think I'll only be able to get by going to med school. I want to transition into hospital medicine and be able to do more for my patients. I'd also like to one day become a medical director and help shape the future of EMS and pass on my knowledge to the next generation.

For all these reasons (and more), I want to make the push for medical school. This isn't just a whim but something I'd been toying with for several years now, just always afraid that my previous academic record would present an insurmountable hurdle. Now that that's all out on the table, what would the best course of action be to accomplish this goal? I'm in no rush, but I'd like to start med school by around 30. I'm single, don't really ever plan on having kids, and am fortunate enough to have my finances relatively secure enough to do something crazy like this.

To review my qualifications:

• B.S. in Physics -- cGPA ~2.7, mGPA ~3.7, sGPA ~3.4
• Community college paramedic diploma (~45 credits, GPA 4.0)
• 7.5 years experience in EMS (2.5 as an EMT, 5 as a paramedic)...a back of the envelope calculation suggests around 16k hours, probably around 5k patient contacts
• 600 hours of ED/OR/ICU rotations and 800 hour field internship for paramedic school
• 3.5 years work experience as a software engineer
• Two publications in industry journals (1 first author, 1 second author)
• Undergraduate research assistant (9 months, mostly just wrote code for the lab)

 

[timephone]

Title says it all. Ironically, one of the biggest reasons for my lackluster academic performance is the underlying reason I want to be a doctor in the first place. I became an EMT the summer before my freshman year and joined the volunteer fire department near campus. I loved EMS so much that I ended up moving into the fire station full time, spending nearly every night of the week riding an ambulance or a fire truck. All of my free time was spent running calls, training, or reading up on EMS topics...school was more of a second priority. After a rough year and a particularly horrific engineering internship, I decided to essentially drop out of undergrad and go to community college to become a paramedic. A year later, paramedic cert fresh in hand, I gave in to my parents' pleas and went back to finish my undergrad degree. At the time, I was fully intent on getting a job as a career Firefighter/Paramedic, so I picked a major (Physics) for the primary reason that I could finish it the quickest, given my previous coursework and AP credit. I actually really did enjoy my Physics courses (and did pretty well in them)...the remainder of my gen eds, not so much. Throughout this time I continued to live in the fire station and spent literally countless hours volunteering as a paramedic.

During my senior year, I somehow managed to talk my way into an engineering internship with a local defense contractor, with a firm full-time position waiting for me upon graduation. The work was very interesting, and due to a variety of circumstances I ended up effectively working full time hours while still in school. Work and EMS were tied for my highest priority activities, with school a very distant third. Well something had to give, so I dropped/flunked out of my last semester of school with a few credits remaining, did the whole cap and gown thing to make the parents happy, and officially started my new "adult" job with no one the wiser. I finished up the remaining courses over the next year or two and finally graduated with probably the most bizarre transcript on record: major GPA of about 3.7, science GPA of about 3.4, and an overall GPA of about 2.7 (thank you, straight C's in almost all of my gen eds and failing English twice). Note that this does not include about 45 credits of straight A's in paramedic school, whatever that counts for.

I'm 25 now, and hopefully a little less dumb and a little more mature. I still enjoy my work as an engineer, but it's not something I see myself doing for the rest of my life. My passion and true calling is emergency medicine. I've continued to work/volunteer as a paramedic (though in a different system) about 20 hours a week, doing a mix of 911 and critical care transport. I've furthered my education by taking classes in critical care, flight medicine, and others, and I spend most of my free time self studying A+P and other more advanced topics related to EM. The more I learn, however, the more I realize I'm quickly approaching the limit of my ability to quench my thirst for medical knowledge that I think I'll only be able to get by going to med school. I want to transition into hospital medicine and be able to do more for my patients. I'd also like to one day become a medical director and help shape the future of EMS and pass on my knowledge to the next generation.

For all these reasons (and more), I want to make the push for medical school. This isn't just a whim but something I'd been toying with for several years now, just always afraid that my previous academic record would present an insurmountable hurdle. Now that that's all out on the table, what would the best course of action be to accomplish this goal? I'm in no rush, but I'd like to start med school by around 30. I'm single, don't really ever plan on having kids, and am fortunate enough to have my finances relatively secure enough to do something crazy like this.

To review my qualifications:

• B.S. in Physics -- cGPA ~2.7, mGPA ~3.7, sGPA ~3.4
• Community college paramedic diploma (~45 credits, GPA 4.0)
• 7.5 years experience in EMS (2.5 as an EMT, 5 as a paramedic)...a back of the envelope calculation suggests around 16k hours, probably around 5k patient contacts
• 600 hours of ED/OR/ICU rotations and 800 hour field internship for paramedic school
• 3.5 years work experience as a software engineer
• Two publications in industry journals (1 first author, 1 second author)
• Undergraduate research assistant (9 months, mostly just wrote code for the lab)

I don't think your "major" GPA will be a huge mitigating factor, but given your healthcare experience you probably have a shot. You have a great story, so you'll be able to sell yourself well to medical schools, once the time comes. But you'll have to raise your GPA before applying, or otherwise prove that you can handle med school-level coursework. i.e., if you haven't taken the pre-reqs yet then you can do a DIY or formal post-bacc for those, or if you have pre-req grades already then you could try for an SMP program. After you've done that (and definitely squeeze in plenty of volunteering too), take the MCAT and do very well. Here are the facts: https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

You're kind of between two of those GPA brackets, but for optimism's sake...for applicants with cumulative undergraduate GPAs between 2.80 and 2.99, 9.5% received an acceptance. That's not a great chance. You can see that only 40% of people who scored above a 517 (>95%-ile) even got accepted, meaning 60% of superstars who nearly aced their MCAT didn't get in anywhere, because of their low GPA. Keep in mind that many of these people are likely URM (under-represented in medicine). The odds are stacked against you...but crazier things have happened. Search these forums for people w/ low GPAs raising them and getting accepted. There are plenty here. But don't get your hopes up. You have a ton of work to do.

 

[MedicineN'Jazz]

I’d recommend for you to take the MCAT (or atleast a practice test), before you make any major decisions. DIY post backs are ok I guess...but if you have the cash, formal post baccs (with linkages) will put you on top. Still, your situation is pretty unique. So I don’t think anyone on here can really tell you what you can do to 100% get in, or even accurately calculate your chances of getting into medical school. It’ll ultimately be up to you to pick and choose which advise you think works best for you. Wishing you the best of luck!

 

[MusicDOc124]

What does your cGPA and sGPA calculate to when you include the paramedic courses? If they were at community college rather than through a fire department or something (like some EMT courses are), then those 45 credits and As should affect both c and sGPA's, meaning you may be closer to the 3.0 mark (possibly above it?) which could also make a huge difference! I'd suggest that if there is an upward trend and such a good sGPA, that with all of your hours/experience, you should be at least able to get some interviews.

 

[precisiongraphic]

What does your cGPA and sGPA calculate to when you include the paramedic courses? If they were at community college rather than through a fire department or something (like some EMT courses are), then those 45 credits and As should affect both c and sGPA's, meaning you may be closer to the 3.0 mark (possibly above it?) which could also make a huge difference! I'd suggest that if there is an upward trend and such a good sGPA, that with all of your hours/experience, you should be at least able to get some interviews.

MusicDOc is correct that AMCAS should include CCollege credits in your cGPA when you apply.

Try this calculator here first. If your cGPA is higher than 3.0, which I think it will be, then you just need to finish the prereqs (getting all As if possible), get some good professor reference letters, add some volunteering (suggest non-clinical because you've got that - perhaps volunteering at a food kitchen or with the homeless or hospice). Same deal if you have to raise your GPA.

Study for and take the MCAT only after prerequisites are done - one year each of physics (you've got that), chem, bio, Organic Chem and one or two semesters of biochem: Getting a 510+ on the MCAT would do a lot to position you after a convoluted undergrad experience. I'd say you have a pretty good chance if you complete all that.

 

[Goro]

Title says it all. Ironically, one of the biggest reasons for my lackluster academic performance is the underlying reason I want to be a doctor in the first place. I became an EMT the summer before my freshman year and joined the volunteer fire department near campus. I loved EMS so much that I ended up moving into the fire station full time, spending nearly every night of the week riding an ambulance or a fire truck. All of my free time was spent running calls, training, or reading up on EMS topics...school was more of a second priority. After a rough year and a particularly horrific engineering internship, I decided to essentially drop out of undergrad and go to community college to become a paramedic. A year later, paramedic cert fresh in hand, I gave in to my parents' pleas and went back to finish my undergrad degree. At the time, I was fully intent on getting a job as a career Firefighter/Paramedic, so I picked a major (Physics) for the primary reason that I could finish it the quickest, given my previous coursework and AP credit. I actually really did enjoy my Physics courses (and did pretty well in them)...the remainder of my gen eds, not so much. Throughout this time I continued to live in the fire station and spent literally countless hours volunteering as a paramedic.

During my senior year, I somehow managed to talk my way into an engineering internship with a local defense contractor, with a firm full-time position waiting for me upon graduation. The work was very interesting, and due to a variety of circumstances I ended up effectively working full time hours while still in school. Work and EMS were tied for my highest priority activities, with school a very distant third. Well something had to give, so I dropped/flunked out of my last semester of school with a few credits remaining, did the whole cap and gown thing to make the parents happy, and officially started my new "adult" job with no one the wiser. I finished up the remaining courses over the next year or two and finally graduated with probably the most bizarre transcript on record: major GPA of about 3.7, science GPA of about 3.4, and an overall GPA of about 2.7 (thank you, straight C's in almost all of my gen eds and failing English twice). Note that this does not include about 45 credits of straight A's in paramedic school, whatever that counts for.

I'm 25 now, and hopefully a little less dumb and a little more mature. I still enjoy my work as an engineer, but it's not something I see myself doing for the rest of my life. My passion and true calling is emergency medicine. I've continued to work/volunteer as a paramedic (though in a different system) about 20 hours a week, doing a mix of 911 and critical care transport. I've furthered my education by taking classes in critical care, flight medicine, and others, and I spend most of my free time self studying A+P and other more advanced topics related to EM. The more I learn, however, the more I realize I'm quickly approaching the limit of my ability to quench my thirst for medical knowledge that I think I'll only be able to get by going to med school. I want to transition into hospital medicine and be able to do more for my patients. I'd also like to one day become a medical director and help shape the future of EMS and pass on my knowledge to the next generation.

For all these reasons (and more), I want to make the push for medical school. This isn't just a whim but something I'd been toying with for several years now, just always afraid that my previous academic record would present an insurmountable hurdle. Now that that's all out on the table, what would the best course of action be to accomplish this goal? I'm in no rush, but I'd like to start med school by around 30. I'm single, don't really ever plan on having kids, and am fortunate enough to have my finances relatively secure enough to do something crazy like this.

To review my qualifications:

• B.S. in Physics -- cGPA ~2.7, mGPA ~3.7, sGPA ~3.4
• Community college paramedic diploma (~45 credits, GPA 4.0)
• 7.5 years experience in EMS (2.5 as an EMT, 5 as a paramedic)...a back of the envelope calculation suggests around 16k hours, probably around 5k patient contacts
• 600 hours of ED/OR/ICU rotations and 800 hour field internship for paramedic school
• 3.5 years work experience as a software engineer
• Two publications in industry journals (1 first author, 1 second author)
• Undergraduate research assistant (9 months, mostly just wrote code for the lab)

Read this:
Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

 

[Mad Jack]

Give applying a shot I guess, but you are a good candidate for a SMP

 

[speedbird27]

MusicDOc is correct that AMCAS should include CCollege credits in your cGPA when you apply.

Did not realize that, my lucky day I guess. Admittedly my memory was a little inaccurate (I hadn't actually looked at my transcript in ages until just now), but after doing the math I'm sitting at a 3.15 cGPA, 3.22 AMCAS sGPA, and 3.32 AACOMAS sGPA. After factoring in going back for prereqs, I don't think a 3.3 cGPA and 3.4-3.5 sGPA are unrealistic. Hmm...

 

[MusicDOc124]

Did not realize that, my lucky day I guess. Admittedly my memory was a little inaccurate (I hadn't actually looked at my transcript in ages until just now), but after doing the math I'm sitting at a 3.15 cGPA, 3.22 AMCAS sGPA, and 3.32 AACOMAS sGPA. After factoring in going back for prereqs, I don't think a 3.3 cGPA and 3.4-3.5 sGPA are unrealistic. Hmm...

With an upward trend from a 2.7 to an overall 3.1/3.2/3.2, you should be fine for DO schools with a strong MCAT given your background. You'll need the strong MCAT for MD as well, but would need to shoot for the 3.4ish at least as they'd probably favor that over your experience, though it still helps here too.

 

[Blanky]

You aren't in a terrible position. You shouldn't rely too heavily on the paramedic upward trend though. If you did average on your last round of upper level biology courses it could help to show a 12-15 credit semester of upper level bio at 3.8+ and then take spring semester and score a strong May MCAT.