Made things quite difficult for myself

[Sans]

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Hello all,

This is my first post on SDN - I've lurked here for a long time and just recently registered. I look forward to becoming a contributing part of the community.

I have a BS in physics from a third-tier state school in NC. I transferred in to this school from a community college, where I got an associate's degree. My cumulative GPA across both schools is probably around 2.9. It took seven years to graduate. I have some atrocious grades, including 2 Fs and a C- in Calc 3 (yes, I took it three times). My sGPA must be much lower, considering most of my coursework at my university was in math and physics.

In a week, I'll be 26 years old. I have no outstanding ECs except for a summer fellowship in astrophysics at UNC Chapel Hill that went pretty well.

Over the last year (I graduated in spring 2010) I've been taking a long, hard look at myself. Over and over again, after much soul-searching, medicine continues to appeal to me for a variety of reasons.

So, let's assume I begin to undertake a load of volunteering and shadowing and only reinforce and build upon this enthusiasm for medicine - let's assume I'm 100% dead set on becoming an MD and, crazy or not, would like to aim for the most prestigious school I can enter.

My plans:

Applying to NCSU for the fall semester, full time, for chemistry. Going to take 15+ hours per semester for two years, during which time I will participate in undergrad research and hopefully be published. In the summers I will come up with some kind of amazing EC that involves going abroad to the 3rd world and relates to medicine. Additionally, I'd be looking to ace a 300 or 400 level class relating to each class I earned less than a B in previously - an A in some higher math classes to compensate for my grades in calc 3 and 4, for example.

I will study independently for the MCAT and hopefully blow it out of the water.

I assert that I am highly intelligent. I have confidence that I can get a 4.0 in any major except art/music, under any course load, and that I can score very highly on the MCAT. I have this confidence, but I am fully aware of the fact that nobody owes me anything and that I have to demonstrate this alleged potential on paper for any school to give a **** about me.

If you were to give me the benefit of the doubt for the sake of argument, does it seem reasonable that I might be able to dig myself out of the hole I've created within two-three years? Even if I got a 4.0 in 36 or more hours of undergrad at full time over the next two years, and got a 40+ on the MCAT, is it true that I would still pretty much be blocked from the "top" schools like Columbia?

I understand too that my age would be a factor - I would be around 29 when I was finally ready to apply.

Brutal criticism is more than welcome. Thanks for reading.

 

[bucks2010]

Your GPA trend will matter a lot. ~3.7 is competitive for MD schools. Do well in upper level sciences and get a great MCAT and you could get in with less.

Have you thought about the DO route? Their grade replacement policy may save you some headaches doing GPA repair.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

Hello all,

This is my first post on SDN - I've lurked here for a long time and just recently registered. I look forward to becoming a contributing part of the community.

I have a BS in physics from a third-tier state school in NC. I transferred in to this school from a community college, where I got an associate's degree. My cumulative GPA across both schools is probably around 2.9. It took seven years to graduate. I have some atrocious grades, including 2 Fs and a C- in Calc 3 (yes, I took it three times). My sGPA must be much lower, considering most of my coursework at my university was in math and physics.

In a week, I'll be 26 years old. I have no outstanding ECs except for a summer fellowship in astrophysics at UNC Chapel Hill that went pretty well.

Over the last year (I graduated in spring 2010) I've been taking a long, hard look at myself. Over and over again, after much soul-searching, medicine continues to appeal to me for a variety of reasons.

So, let's assume I begin to undertake a load of volunteering and shadowing and only reinforce and build upon this enthusiasm for medicine - let's assume I'm 100% dead set on becoming an MD and, crazy or not, would like to aim for the most prestigious school I can enter.

My plans:

Applying to NCSU for the fall semester, full time, for chemistry. Going to take 15+ hours per semester for two years, during which time I will participate in undergrad research and hopefully be published. In the summers I will come up with some kind of amazing EC that involves going abroad to the 3rd world and relates to medicine. Additionally, I'd be looking to ace a 300 or 400 level class relating to each class I earned less than a B in previously - an A in some higher math classes to compensate for my grades in calc 3 and 4, for example.

I will study independently for the MCAT and hopefully blow it out of the water.

I assert that I am highly intelligent. I have confidence that I can get a 4.0 in any major except art/music, under any course load, and that I can score very highly on the MCAT. I have this confidence, but I am fully aware of the fact that nobody owes me anything and that I have to demonstrate this alleged potential on paper for any school to give a **** about me.

If you were to give me the benefit of the doubt for the sake of argument, does it seem reasonable that I might be able to dig myself out of the hole I've created within two-three years? Even if I got a 4.0 in 36 or more hours of undergrad at full time over the next two years, and got a 40+ on the MCAT, is it true that I would still pretty much be blocked from the "top" schools like Columbia?

I understand too that my age would be a factor - I would be around 29 when I was finally ready to apply.

Brutal criticism is more than welcome. Thanks for reading.

i can't help but laugh. your undergraduate record is a mess, and your assertions that you can destroy the mcat, do some awesome EC's, get published, and ace two years of coursework to get a shot at columbia are naive at best. i'm not saying that you can't get into medical school, but it's harder than you make it out to be.

first, there's NOTHING that can guarantee entrance to top schools. NOTHING. and if you are really interested in medicine, in and of itself, then rankings should not be a priority. you go for it if you want it, wherever it takes you.

second, you've got your work cut out for you. the mcat is a beast, and you have to really train for it. you can't just be smart (as you and about everyone else in the world asserts) and cruise into it unprepared. your undergraduate science record is a moderately fair indicator of how well you grasp the material covered in the test, and we know what that means for you. additionally, the way the scores are distributed are not how you would think. anything above 38 includes roughly the top 1% of all test takers (theres some variation with this year to year), so good luck with that 40.

third, your grades are gonna weigh you down. if you have 7 years of coursework resulting in a 2.9 cumulative, then your proposed additional 2 years of coursework will improve your cum very minimally. do the math, and see what you end up with. keep in mind the average gpa for acceptances is around 3.6-3.7, across all schools. top schools will have stats at 3.8-ish.

fourth, there is nothing that can guarantee a publication. it all comes down to luck: choosing a lab that has a successful project that you can work on and having a nice PI to throw your name on the list. professional PhD researchers can slave away for years on projects with no guarantee of publishing.

fifth, i don't know, i lost my train of thought. OH! look into DO schools, because they have grade forgiveness policies so your gpa could be higher if you apply to those.

sixth, age doesn't really matter. in fact i think it makes you stand out and look more mature.

seventh, i don't think you are an idiot or that you will not be a doctor someday. you just had expressed some oversimplified ideas on how the app process works, and i hope i clarified more than discouraged. you gotta buckle down and take care of business now, because it's gonna be tougher than you think.

EDIT: i bolded the bit about volunteering and shadowing because that's just about the only thing you got right. but you do not have to go to a developing country to look good. it's more about commitment, contribution, and passion.

 

[Sans]

Bucks: I won't get to a 3.7 unless I take about 150 more hours and earn straight As.

Robots: Your answer was the sort that I'm looking for. The bottom line is that I am trying to convey my opinion that in my case, potential is not the limiting factor. It looks like GPA will be, and I'm trying to find out exactly HOW limiting it will be for me even if I produce 2 years of stellar grades.

 

[WeAreNotRobots]

Robots: Your answer was the sort that I'm looking for. The bottom line is that I am trying to convey my opinion that in my case, potential is not the limiting factor. It looks like GPA will be, and I'm trying to find out exactly HOW limiting it will be for me even if I produce 2 years of stellar grades.

yeah, at this point the only thing holding you back is GPA. you can do well on the MCAT, but be reasonable, you do NOT need something remarkable/unattainable. bring the GPA as much as possible, and start some realistic EC/volunteering that you can sustain for the next 2-3 years.

make your devotion/passion/volunteering the aspect of you that stands out.

 

[JustMeditate]

Obviously, if you accomplish all of those goals, you'll most likely get into med school. The problem is actually doing it.

Just remember not to overwhelm yourself at any one point. You need good EC's and good grades to get into med school, and if you want to get into med school before you hit 30--and there is nothing wrong with getting into med school at 30, but if you'd rather get in before then---you CAN'T afford to have any more C's or D's or F's on your transcript. After seven years of a not-so-great GPA, and with no grade forgiveness policy at allopathic schools, you are going to have enough damage control to deal with as it is, and each additional semester you do poorly will set you back another semester to a year or even more of grade repair. So take it slow. Maybe start your first semester off with 12 credits, and maybe no more than 10 hours per week in EC's. If you overwhelm yourself and get anymore bad grades, it won't be good.

That being said, it is never too late to go for it. People apply to med school in their fifties, it isn't too late for you at all.

 

[Sans]

I do have to say that a huge, HUGE upside to weighing up medicine as a career is that to prepare a top application you really have to come to terms with whether or not it's the right path for you.

 

[bucks2010]

At this point, I think the best thing for you might be to just focus on building the best application you can in the next 2 years, plan on taking a gap year after the 2 years, and then 1.5 years from now take stock of your application and consider what schools you will be competitive for. If you wanted to go the DO route you could make a plan to complete retakes. If not, I would calculate how high you could possibly get your GPA in the next 2 years and plan for post-bacc work if necessary.

 

[Sans]

Oh - is it a foregone conclusion that I'll be looking at SMPs after getting my GPA to non-remedial territory?

 

[bucks2010]

I wouldn't do an SMP unless you have run out of options. It would likely be much for affordable for you to keep taking courses at your home institution if after 2 years your GPA is still not competitive. So no, the SMP is definitely not a foregone conclusion.