Major difference between DO and MD?

[DJAmmz]

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I wanted to search this forum, but the search function is unavailable right now.

Could someone please outline for me the difference between DO and MDs? What sort of jobs/residencies does a DO apply for vs a MD? What is the difference in qualification? Any and all informaiton is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Mixmaster]

http://www.stronghealth.com/services/primarycare/domd.cfm

 

[drusso]

Good summary:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteopathic

 

[bobo]

A DO is basically a souped-up backcracker.

 

[medicine1]

I wanted to search this forum, but the search function is unavailable right now.

Could someone please outline for me the difference between DO and MDs? What sort of jobs/residencies does a DO apply for vs a MD? What is the difference in qualification? Any and all informaiton is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

DO students study Biomechanical principles and learn how to diagnose and treat somatic dysfunctions early on (during medical school). Basically DO students are Neuromusculoskeletalogists... (New Word)
Ha,Ha 😍

 

[thesauce]

http://www.stronghealth.com/services/primarycare/domd.cfm

This is one of the most bias links I've ever seen. This doesn't help people looking for actual information.

 

[Taus]

http://www.studentdoctor.net/do/mdordo.asp

 

[MoxieDO]

DOs take an extra class in OMT. They have all the training a MD does plus more. They both practice medicine and are equivalent by law. This site looks like a good summation: http://www.stronghealth.com/service...rycare/domd.cfm

 

[silas2642]

I wanted to search this forum, but the search function is unavailable right now.

Could someone please outline for me the difference between DO and MDs? What sort of jobs/residencies does a DO apply for vs a MD? What is the difference in qualification? Any and all informaiton is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

I think there's a sticky on this issue in this forum... reading it might be useful. As for residencies, DO's can apply for allopathic residencies, although they may be required to take the USMLE's in addition to the COMLEX. MD's cannot (as far as I know) apply for osteopathic residencies.

 

[DJAmmz]

Thanks everyone!

 

[DJAmmz]

I think there's a sticky on this issue in this forum... reading it might be useful.

Don't see any such sticky outlining the differences in this forum specifically.

Sticky: Why high tuition hurts Osteopathic Medicine
drusso

Sticky: AMA Supports Ending "DO Discrimination" ( Multi-page thread 1 2 )
drusso

Sticky: Allopathic Medical School Expansion
drusso

Sticky: What Every MS-I Should Know About Learning OMM ( Multi-page thread 1 2 )
JPHazelton

Sticky: AOA Web Blog
drusso

Sticky: Become a SDN Donor!

None of those pertain to what I asked.

 

[Shodddy18]

This is one of the most bias links I've ever seen. This doesn't help people looking for actual information.

Everything in that was 100% true

 

[JohnnyOU]

Everything in that was 100% true

I don't agree with:
DOs look at the "total person." Osteopathic physicians focus on preventive care. Instead of just treating specific symptoms or illnesses, they look at the whole body.

I think this whole person focus is a primary care trait, especially FPs (both MD & DO).

Any MD FP worth his salt focuses on the whole person & preventive care, including family life.

I also think an MD FP will focus on the whole person much more than a DO surgeon, etc.

While DO med schools sometimes talk about the whole person more than MD schools, in reality it is doctor-dependent and specialty-dependent...not so much school-dependent.

Just my opinion,
Johnny

 

[Nate]

I don't agree with:
DOs look at the "total person." Osteopathic physicians focus on preventive care. Instead of just treating specific symptoms or illnesses, they look at the whole body.

I think this whole person focus is a primary care trait, especially FPs (both MD & DO).

Any MD FP worth his salt focuses on the whole person & preventive care, including family life.

I also think an MD FP will focus on the whole person much more than a DO surgeon, etc.

While DO med schools sometimes talk about the whole person more than MD schools, in reality it is doctor-dependent and specialty-dependent...not so much school-dependent.

Just my opinion,
Johnny

👍
I agree, whenever I see the DOs are more holistic BS I read no further.

 

[homeboy]

👍
I agree, whenever I see the DOs are more holistic BS I read no further.

Ditto, I agree.

 

[Red Beard]

Don't see any such sticky outlining the differences in this forum specifically.

Sticky: Why high tuition hurts Osteopathic Medicine
drusso

Sticky: AMA Supports Ending "DO Discrimination" ( Multi-page thread 1 2 )
drusso

Sticky: Allopathic Medical School Expansion
drusso

Sticky: What Every MS-I Should Know About Learning OMM ( Multi-page thread 1 2 )
JPHazelton

Sticky: AOA Web Blog
drusso

Sticky: Become a SDN Donor!

None of those pertain to what I asked.

That's weird, I thought it was in there somewhere too....

Anyway, the search function appears to be working now. Use it 👍

 

[Doctor G]

D.O.'s and M.D.'s are both fully licensed physicians to practice in the United States. The major differences worth noting are (1) Different practice rights in different countries. (2) Lesser residency options unless one takes USMLE in addition to COMLEX to apply to both osteopathic and allopathic programs. (3) Knowledge in OMM. (4) The bothersome feeling one needs to put up with when being asked "What is a D.O.?" from laymen. (5) Not so research oriented if one likes to get involved in research.

 

[GregsAnatomy]

I've been trying to find the answer to this question for a long time, and after 2 years of osteopathic med school the best answer I have found is:

The major difference between an M.D. and D.O. is one letter.

 

[Mixmaster]

I don't agree with:
DOs look at the "total person." Osteopathic physicians focus on preventive care. Instead of just treating specific symptoms or illnesses, they look at the whole body.

I think this whole person focus is a primary care trait, especially FPs (both MD & DO).

Any MD FP worth his salt focuses on the whole person & preventive care, including family life.

I also think an MD FP will focus on the whole person much more than a DO surgeon, etc.

While DO med schools sometimes talk about the whole person more than MD schools, in reality it is doctor-dependent and specialty-dependent...not so much school-dependent.

Just my opinion,
Johnny

Absolutely! In reality there is no difference just follow enough D.O.'s and M.D.'s you will see no difference. Even the OMT is practiced by very very few. I had a rotation where the D.O. was sending pt's to a D.C. for back pain.

 

[Mixmaster]

I've been trying to find the answer to this question for a long time, and after 2 years of osteopathic med school the best answer I have found is:

The major difference between an M.D. and D.O. is one letter.

Haha. I could not have said it better myself, and it's been 3 years for me. Well said!

 

[OSUdoc08]

I wanted to search this forum, but the search function is unavailable right now.

Could someone please outline for me the difference between DO and MDs? What sort of jobs/residencies does a DO apply for vs a MD? What is the difference in qualification? Any and all informaiton is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Jobs are the same and residencies are the same.

The only difference is that DO's take an extra class, in addition to all of the classes that MD's take. This class is called "OMM."

 

[Shodddy18]

Did it say that MDs dont???

I don't agree with:
DOs look at the "total person." Osteopathic physicians focus on preventive care. Instead of just treating specific symptoms or illnesses, they look at the whole body.

I think this whole person focus is a primary care trait, especially FPs (both MD & DO).

Any MD FP worth his salt focuses on the whole person & preventive care, including family life.

I also think an MD FP will focus on the whole person much more than a DO surgeon, etc.

While DO med schools sometimes talk about the whole person more than MD schools, in reality it is doctor-dependent and specialty-dependent...not so much school-dependent.

Just my opinion,
Johnny

 

[Shodddy18]

👍
I agree, whenever I see the DOs are more holistic BS I read no further.

Most of the practicing DOs I know are much more holistic practitioners than the MDs I know. I also know that at my school they make an attempt to teach us to practice this way. I'm not saying that everyone will, but I will try.

 

[thesauce]

Did it say that MDs dont???

Did you even read this link? Look again at: http://www.stronghealth.com/services/primarycare/domd.cfm

What Makes DOs Different? (clearly they mean from MDs):

"DOs can perform surgery, child delivery, treat patients, and prescribe medications in hospitals and clinic settings."

What the ^%$*&^%*&^%*&^%*&! MDs OBVIOUSLY do this! If someone stumbled upon this link they would think that ONLY DOs do the above mentioned things. Did a 3rd grader write this?

"DOs look at the "total person." Osteopathic physicians focus on preventive care. Instead of just treating specific symptoms or illnesses, they look at the whole body."

Already debated in this thread. We have classes at NJMS that are devoted to the "whole body" concept.

"DOs receive extra training in the musculoskeletal system, which is comprised of the nerves, muscles, and bones. This training gives DOs a better understanding of how an injury or illness in one part of the body can affect another part of the body; therefore, DOs have a therapeutic and diagnostic advantage."

This is very debatable. Especially considering how packed the average MD program is. Do DO's really have the time to take everything we do and more? It seems pretty unlikely, but I really don't know.

"DOs use what is called osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT). OMT is a technique in which the DOs use their hands to diagnose injury and illness, giving special attention to the joints, bones, muscles, and nerves. Manipulations improve circulation, which in turn, creates a normal nerve and blood supply, enabling the body to heal itself."

This is true and it is the only thing on this whole friggin' link that isn't completely biased!

If you believe everything you read then I have some great ocean-front property in Kansas that I'll sell to you real cheap.

 

[DJAmmz]

Jobs are the same and residencies are the same.

The only difference is that DO's take an extra class, in addition to all of the classes that MD's take. This class is called "OMM."

Perfect, that's preciseley what I wanted to know. I was wondering what sort of "doors" are closed for you if you become a DO vs. MD (with respect to residencies and jobs).

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I love this site.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Perfect, that's preciseley what I wanted to know. I was wondering what sort of "doors" are closed for you if you become a DO vs. MD (with respect to residencies and jobs).

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I love this site.

No doors are closed. You can enter any specialty and recieve any top of job as either.

Some residencies may be more difficult to enter, but there are just as many that are easier to enter.

 

[MoxieDO]

No doors are closed. You can enter any specialty and recieve any top of job as either.

Some residencies may be more difficult to enter, but there are just as many that are easier to enter.

In addition, statistically there are less DOs (only 1 in 5 docs are DOs) and most tend to go into a primary care area. Therefore it is really hard to get a real picture on DOs entering highly competitive residencies with only a few spots and hundreds of applicants. In the end, if you are a good doc with great recs, ECs, research, interviewing skills etc etc you will probably get into a top residency and move into the job you want.

 

[gagolden]

Besides OMT (duh..) The only difference is that there are not enough residencies for DO grads. Maybe there was more of a difference before integration, but the training is the same now.

 

[Shodddy18]

deleted

 

[Shodddy18]

Did you even read this link? Look again at: http://www.stronghealth.com/services/primarycare/domd.cfm

What Makes DOs Different? (clearly they mean from MDs):

"DOs can perform surgery, child delivery, treat patients, and prescribe medications in hospitals and clinic settings."

What the ^%$*&^%*&^%*&^%*&! MDs OBVIOUSLY do this! If someone stumbled upon this link they would think that ONLY DOs do the above mentioned things. Did a 3rd grader write this?

No, but you would have to be a third grader to thinkg that that is what the writer was trying to imply. Read between the lines... I think the writer was trying to validate the claim that DOs can do everything that MDs can do.

"DOs look at the "total person." Osteopathic physicians focus on preventive care. Instead of just treating specific symptoms or illnesses, they look at the whole body."

Already debated in this thread. We have classes at NJMS that are devoted to the "whole body" concept.

I believe you. I believe that MDs try to look at the whole "person" (not just the body!) Howeverl, I dont think most MD schools have these classes. And it is certainly not integrated into EVERY system like it is in an osteopathic school. I think you are reading this in the Black or White and no shades of gray way. I dont think the author was trying to imply that MDs dont treat the whole person, I think the author was trying to make the point that DOs do it more often and better.

"DOs receive extra training in the musculoskeletal system, which is comprised of the nerves, muscles, and bones. This training gives DOs a better understanding of how an injury or illness in one part of the body can affect another part of the body; therefore, DOs have a therapeutic and diagnostic advantage."

Do DO's really have the time to take everything we do and more? It seems pretty unlikely, but I really don't know.

To put it simply... Yes they do pack in everything and more, and yes you are right... you really dont know!

"DOs use what is called osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT). OMT is a technique in which the DOs use their hands to diagnose injury and illness, giving special attention to the joints, bones, muscles, and nerves. Manipulations improve circulation, which in turn, creates a normal nerve and blood supply, enabling the body to heal itself."

This is true and it is the only thing on this whole friggin' link that isn't completely biased!

You are right, that is true. However I think you are the one who may be a little biased. Cant fathom the idea that a DO student could possibly be better trained than yourself in anything.

If you believe everything you read then I have some great ocean-front property in Kansas that I'll sell to you real cheap.

Awesome!!! Only if you give me a good price though, cause I'm pretty much broke! 😉

 

[MoxieDO]

"DOs receive extra training in the musculoskeletal system, which is comprised of the nerves, muscles, and bones. This training gives DOs a better understanding of how an injury or illness in one part of the body can affect another part of the body; therefore, DOs have a therapeutic and diagnostic advantage."

This is very debatable. Especially considering how packed the average MD program is. Do DO's really have the time to take everything we do and more? It seems pretty unlikely, but I really don't know.

"DOs use what is called osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT). OMT is a technique in which the DOs use their hands to diagnose injury and illness, giving special attention to the joints, bones, muscles, and nerves. Manipulations improve circulation, which in turn, creates a normal nerve and blood supply, enabling the body to heal itself."

This is true and it is the only thing on this whole friggin' link that isn't completely biased!

If you believe everything you read then I have some great ocean-front property in Kansas that I'll sell to you real cheap.

Proves how much you really don't know about DOs. We (at least at my school) have classes longer than MD schools, with classes beginning July 31 and ending June 31 vs. Aug. ? to May at MD schools. We've made the time to learn more things. In addition, learning OMM gives DOs an advantage to know anatomy extremely well since we have to continuously put it to use in our OMM classes.

 

[OSUdoc08]

Proves how much you really don't know about DOs. We (at least at my school) have classes longer than MD schools, with classes beginning July 31 and ending June 31 vs. Aug. ? to May at MD schools. We've made the time to learn more things. In addition, learning OMM gives DOs an advantage to know anatomy extremely well since we have to continuously put it to use in our OMM classes.

You are correct about the anatomy. I agree 100%. I will have to disagree with you on the class time. This is just as variable between MD schools as it is between DO schools. You cannot use a blanket statement to differentiate between the two.

My school started mid-August, and ended the last week of April, with finals during the first week of May.

 

[MoxieDO]

You are correct about the anatomy. I agree 100%. I will have to disagree with you on the class time. This is just as variable between MD schools as it is between DO schools. You cannot use a blanket statement to differentiate between the two.

My school started mid-August, and ended the last week of April, with finals during the first week of May.

oops, my bad! goes to show how different many schools can be. hmmm, can i transfer? lol, j/k

 

[docbill]

Proves how much you really don't know about DOs. We (at least at my school) have classes longer than MD schools, with classes beginning July 31 and ending June 31 vs. Aug. ? to May at MD schools. We've made the time to learn more things. In addition, learning OMM gives DOs an advantage to know anatomy extremely well since we have to continuously put it to use in our OMM classes.

That is okay.. it is because DO students are slower. With the exception of OSUCOM students... 😱

 

[thesauce]

No, but you would have to be a third grader to....

The whole point that I was making is that the article in question is under the guise of being informative, but still requires you to read between the lines. Therefore, it just doesn't help someone that is actually looking for information on DO vs. MD. You have to already know the difference to be able to infer these ideas from the article.

To put it simply... Yes they do pack in everything and more, and yes you are right... you really dont know!

So this gives me a chance to clear this up. Please enlighten me this one thing: If you fill a DO class with people whose MCATs and GPAs aren't as high (on AVERAGE) as those of MD programs, how can DO schools teach their students a ton more stuff in the same amount of time? They weren't able to master material as quickly up to the point when they entered medical school, so how do they learn so quickly once they get in?

Maybe, just maybe, you don't know what I'm learning in my school and I don't know what you're learning in your school and you are simply grabbing at straws by saying that DOs are learning so much more.

Cant fathom the idea that a DO student could possibly be better trained than yourself in anything.

You are clearly not leaving open the option of an MD being better trained than a DO in anything, so why would you accuse me of doing the reverse?

 

[OSUdoc08]

The whole point that I was making is that the article in question is under the guise of being informative, but still requires you to read between the lines. Therefore, it just doesn't help someone that is actually looking for information on DO vs. MD. You have to already know the difference to be able to infer these ideas from the article.



So this gives me a chance to clear this up. Please enlighten me this one thing: If you fill a DO class with people whose MCATs and GPAs aren't as high (on AVERAGE) as those of MD programs, how can DO schools teach their students a ton more stuff in the same amount of time? They weren't able to master material as quickly up to the point when they entered medical school, so how do they learn so quickly once they get in?

Maybe, just maybe, you don't know what I'm learning in my school and I don't know what you're learning in your school and you are simply grabbing at straws by saying that DOs are learning so much more.



You are clearly not leaving open the option of an MD being better trained than a DO in anything, so why would you accuse me of doing the reverse?

Be careful. Don't make me call the Kirksville FD to put out your flames.....

I know quite a few MD students who have problems with "grasping" material. It is quite amusing when their attendings are DO's. I've seen this happen.

 

[Red Beard]

Perfect, that's preciseley what I wanted to know. I was wondering what sort of "doors" are closed for you if you become a DO vs. MD (with respect to residencies and jobs).

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I love this site.

This question has been asked a lot, and the consensus is that while DOs can and do train in every specialty, there are still a couple(very few) programs at some institutions that will not consider DO applicants, and some where your degree will be a small hinderance to gaining admission. You can still occasionally find job adverts that specifically state "no DOs" as well.

None of this is to say that you can't do whatever you want to do as a DO, as these cases of discrimination appear isolated. If you can't get into program w, then you go to x, y, or z. Get it? There are so many opportunities out there that one or two programs giving DOs a hard time isn't going to make a big difference on you being able to do what you want.

 

[Red Beard]

Be careful. Don't make me call the Kirksville FD to put out your flames.....

Bold, witty....I like it 👍

 

[USCMed08]

The biggest, and most crucial, difference is during the residency app season. Like it or not, MD apps have an advantage in certain fields/programs over DO apps. I've seen my friends at DO programs get screwed over when it comes to applying for allopathic ortho, derm, etc. This post will probably generate the typical anecdotal "My DO friend got a 260 and matched at MGH ortho," but this is rare, and should you want to keep your options as open as possible, go MD. My opinion is that the advantage that an MD gives during the match outweighs any benefits of knowing how to do OMM. I'm sure this is controversial, especially in a DO forum, but matching in a field AND program you like is more important than knowing a skill that most physicians rarely depend upon. Granted, getting a 260 and honoring all your rotations will allow you to match well no matter the med school you attend, but 99% of med students will not accomplish this. Play the percentages. FYI, every US med school teaches "holistic" medicine. Before and after the residency app process, no one cares about your degree.

 

[thesauce]

Be careful. Don't make me call the Kirksville FD to put out your flames.....

I know quite a few MD students who have problems with "grasping" material. It is quite amusing when their attendings are DO's. I've seen this happen.

It isn't hard to find exceptions to the rule. That's why I made such a big point of saying "AVERAGE." Please, if you want to make your point, just answer the question I already asked:

If you fill a DO class with people whose MCATs and GPAs aren't as high (on AVERAGE) as those of MD programs, how can DO schools teach their students a ton more stuff in the same amount of time? They weren't able to master material as quickly up to the point when they entered medical school, so how do they learn so quickly once they get in?

 

[OSUdoc08]

It isn't hard to find exceptions to the rule. That's why I made such a big point of saying "AVERAGE." Please, if you want to make your point, just answer the question I already asked:

If you fill a DO class with people whose MCATs and GPAs aren't as high (on AVERAGE) as those of MD programs, how can DO schools teach their students a ton more stuff in the same amount of time? They weren't able to master material as quickly up to the point when they entered medical school, so how do they learn so quickly once they get in?

You are obviously confused. College GPA and MCAT are unrelated to performance in medical school, since the information is unrelated.

 

[Shodddy18]

The whole point that I was making is that the article in question is under the guise of being informative, but still requires you to read between the lines. Therefore, it just doesn't help someone that is actually looking for information on DO vs. MD. You have to already know the difference to be able to infer these ideas from the article.

Ok, lets explain it simply...

Well lets assume that everyone who reads the article is smart enough to understand the words that they read. We can then assume that these people know what a physician is, and that most physicians are MDs. They therefore know what an MD does. By explaining what a DO does, the readers will then know all of the differences between MDs and DOs!!!

Authors mission accomplished!

So this gives me a chance to clear this up. Please enlighten me this one thing: If you fill a DO class with people whose MCATs and GPAs aren't as high (on AVERAGE) as those of MD programs, how can DO schools teach their students a ton more stuff in the same amount of time? They weren't able to master material as quickly up to the point when they entered medical school, so how do they learn so quickly once they get in?

Ok... I'm going to ignore the arrogance here. The average GPA for allopathic and osteopathic schools differ by 1/10 of a point. How much do you think those histograms overlap??? Im going to guess 85-90%... if not more. So 85-90% of osteopathic students have equivilent stats to their allopathic counterparts... therefore are equally as capable. (not that any numbers tell you what a person is capable of). All other things being equal, I guess we study more!

Maybe, just maybe, you don't know what I'm learning in my school and I don't know what you're learning in your school and you are simply grabbing at straws by saying that DOs are learning so much more.

No one said we were learning so so so much more. We are learning exactly what you are learning... plus OMM, and integrating holistic practices into the whole thing!

You are clearly not leaving open the option of an MD being better trained than a DO in anything, so why would you accuse me of doing the reverse?

Of course not. Im going to be a DO and since I will be the best doctor in the world, no MD will be better than me!!! Just kidding about that last part. 😉

Now in all seriousness, lets just agree to disagree. No hard feelings, we are all going to share the same enourmous responsibility of caring for patients.
I need to get back to studying for boards, so good luck in the future!

 

[JohnnyOU]

You are obviously confused. College GPA and MCAT are unrelated to performance in medical school, since the information is unrelated.

Dude. Get real.

🙂

 

[thesauce]

You are obviously confused. College GPA and MCAT are unrelated to performance in medical school, since the information is unrelated.

How could they not be related? That doesn't make any sense to me.

So are you saying that someone who works diligently to get a 4.0 in undergrad and a 33 MCAT has just as good of a chance of doing well in medical school as someone with a 3.2 and a 27?

 

[thesauce]

Now in all seriousness, lets just agree to disagree. No hard feelings, we are all going to share the same enourmous responsibility of caring for patients.
I need to get back to studying for boards, so good luck in the future!

Good luck to you.

 

[Shodddy18]

How could they not be related? That doesn't make any sense to me.

So are you saying that someone who works diligently to get a 4.0 in undergrad and a 33 MCAT has just as good of a chance of doing well in medical school as someone with a 3.2 and a 27?

Yeah man but your puting this whole thing into the constructs of a double blinded scientific study. There are hundreds if not thousands of variables that determine a persons undergraduate and graduate performance. One has no relevance to the other.

 

[Shodddy18]

Good luck to you.

Sorry about the last post. My wife always tells me I have to have the last word. But I'm really going this time. Good luck to you as well!

 

[OSUdoc08]

Dude. Get real.

🙂

Very few of the actual premed classes are even touched upon in medical school.

Very few.

 

[OSUdoc08]

How could they not be related? That doesn't make any sense to me.

So are you saying that someone who works diligently to get a 4.0 in undergrad and a 33 MCAT has just as good of a chance of doing well in medical school as someone with a 3.2 and a 27?

Yes. College is way different than medical school. People often perform very differently.

For example, I did way better in med school than college, and I have a classmate that did way better in college than med school.

The courses are just too different.

 

[exmike]

You are obviously confused. College GPA and MCAT are unrelated to performance in medical school, since the information is unrelated.

What is performance in med school? If you mean grades, maybe. If you mean USMLE Step 1, then MCAT is definitely correlated. In fact, a school's overall MCAT score is also directly correlated to the school's USMLE Step 1 score. Must we go over this every time?