Make me feel better about my chances of matching!

[SeanCC]

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I am totaly freaking out right now about matching! And yes, ive looked at the nrmp charting outcomes data (http://www.nrmp.org/data/chartingoutcomes2009v3.pdf) Some of the charts make me feel really good! Some of them make me feel not so good...Anyway, looking at the data, there were 6 people last year who had 16 or more interviews and still didnt match in EM! How does that happen??? Are they *****holes or something? Anybody know one of these six people? I would love to hear their story. Also, everyone feel free to share info about individuals who you know that matched in EM last year but didnt have the best board scores/grades...Thanx!

 

[Smashweasel]

Being in Chicago Ive gotten to meet a few interns and residents around town. 2 told me their step1 scores were in the low 220's and another told me his was barely over 210. These are interns in Chicago MD programs that matched in the last 2 years.
Best of luck.....

 

[Seville]

I don't know anyone who ranked 16 programs and didn't match, but I do know someone who ranked 14 programs and didn't match. His board scores and grades were right at the national average for EM. In piecing things together afterwards, he thinks that he was sunk by a particularly damning SLOR. Unfortunately, the person who agreed to write his letter didn't agree to write a "strong" letter, and instead, completely hosed him. Totally stinks b/c you just don't know what is in those letters, even though you hope they are good.

 

[doctorFred]

I don't know anyone who ranked 16 programs and didn't match, but I do know someone who ranked 14 programs and didn't match. His board scores and grades were right at the national average for EM. In piecing things together afterwards, he thinks that he was sunk by a particularly damning SLOR. Unfortunately, the person who agreed to write his letter didn't agree to write a "strong" letter, and instead, completely hosed him. Totally stinks b/c you just don't know what is in those letters, even though you hope they are good.

that story, if true, is a little frightening. it's also just a tiny bit immoral to agree to write a letter of recommendation if the candidate isn't someone that you would recommend. and really, every LOR is supposed to be relatively "strong."

i heard one story about a kid with significantly above average board scores and grades who matched at his 12th (of 12) program. it's often because people may blow off the majority of their list (particularly people who aren't airtight in the personality department.)

nearly all of us will match, and the overwhelming majority will do so at one of their top 5 programs. for those rare souls that don't, i'm not sure there's anything you can do (aside from rather obvious social tact) to prevent it from happening. every once in a blue moon, forces outside your control will conspire to put you in a bad spot. so either way, nothing to worry about now! 😎

 

[SeanCC]

I don't know anyone who ranked 16 programs and didn't match, but I do know someone who ranked 14 programs and didn't match. His board scores and grades were right at the national average for EM. In piecing things together afterwards, he thinks that he was sunk by a particularly damning SLOR. Unfortunately, the person who agreed to write his letter didn't agree to write a "strong" letter, and instead, completely hosed him. Totally stinks b/c you just don't know what is in those letters, even though you hope they are good.

So i supposed that programs gave this guy invitations to interview and then his negative SLOR came in after the fact...Well, im pretty sure my SLORs are good. In fact, I was told at several interviews that I had one SLOR in particular that was really good. Its just hard to imagine going on all those interview and then opening that email on 3/15 and seeing "Sorry, you failed to match at any program." That must be worse than someone kicking you in the gonads, then running over you with a truck, then comming back one more time to kick you in the 'nads then proceed to micturate on you just for fun!
Besides negative things that can be added to your application after the fact (CK scores, CS score, SLORs), if you have decent interviewing skills, I cant think of a single reason why a person would fall so low...

 

[SeanCC]

i heard one story about a kid with significantly above average board scores and grades who matched at his 12th (of 12) program. it's often because people may blow off the majority of their list (particularly people who aren't airtight in the personality department.)


Speaking of individual who are not "airtight in the personality department," Thats one of the things that I like about EM, pretty much everyone that ive met on the interview trail have been people that I could see myself hanging out with. Sure, there was always the guy who probably drank one too many but besides that you guys were pretty cool. Hopefully, ill be hanging out with several of yall real soon over the next 3 (or 4) years!

 

[Seville]

He said that he was getting tons of interview offers and then they just sort of dried up after that letter came in. He assumed it was because it was getting later in the season, not because of the letter. After he didn't match, he sat down with the PD of his program, who told him about the letter.

I can't imagine, either, though. I mean, who agrees to write a letter then totally screws the applicant? It just seems like the letter writer could have said something like, "you may want to ask someone else". Or, "I don't feel confident I could write you an effective lettter". Anything!

Granted he says himself that this was probably not the only reason he didn't match, but that this was a huge negative that was hard to overcome-especially since he'd interviewed at several of the places prior to the letter coming out (thus couldn't address it even if he'd known about it).

 

[IgM]

all of a sudden this thread is not making me feel better about matching

 

[SeanCC]

He said that he was getting tons of interview offers and then they just sort of dried up after that letter came in. He assumed it was because it was getting later in the season, not because of the letter. After he didn't match, he sat down with the PD of his program, who told him about the letter.

I can't imagine, either, though. I mean, who agrees to write a letter then totally screws the applicant? It just seems like the letter writer could have said something like, "you may want to ask someone else". Or, "I don't feel confident I could write you an effective lettter". Anything!

Granted he says himself that this was probably not the only reason he didn't match, but that this was a huge negative that was hard to overcome-especially since he'd interviewed at several of the places prior to the letter coming out (thus couldn't address it even if he'd known about it).

Yeah, the doc should have just simply not written him a letter. It shows a real lack of professionalism to just scew someone over like that. I know seveal docs who simply say no, or the chair of my surgery dept will say, "Sure, ill write you one but it wont be a good one." So to all you letter writers out there, let this be a lesson to you. If you happen not to like us then JUST TELL US NO! Please dont ruin our carrears beacause we were 5mins late for our shift!!

Anyway, so Seville, what were some of the other reasons why this guy though that he didnt match?

 

[Smashweasel]

Im rotating with 2 cousins, one of whom went to school with me. They have a 3rd cousin who attended either UoC or UIC( not sure which,I get them confused)and graduated last year. He scored 250+ on both steps as he was fond of reminding everyone. He applied and got 20+interviews for IM at some great places-again as he was fond of reminding everyone. He didn't match. The dude is a complete condescending douche bag. He thought all he had to do was show up to his interviews and he would be #1 on every programs ROL. He actually blew off an interview and never called/showed because on further review they were below him. Those are the type of guys/gals that get a ton of interviews without a match. Ive met a few on the trail and watched residents (and a PD)roll their eyes and sigh while the idiots regaled us with stories of their greatness.

Stay classy San Diego(and humble) and you'll be just fine.

 

[Cerberus]

This thread does not make me feel better.

 

[Seville]

Anyway, so Seville, what were some of the other reasons why this guy though that he didnt match?

He said that he thought maybe he should have played the game more. He had told his top choice program that he wanted to go there but said he wished he'd let other programs know he was ranking them highly also. Other than that, I really don't know. Like I said, he had decent grades and board scores, had been active in EM for a long time, had good insight into what he wanted to do with his life long-term, and so on. I have no idea how he interviews but he's not a shy or awkward person by any means. Honestly, we were all completely shocked when he didn't match.

 

[deleted65604]

Paranoia and lack of confidence decrease your chances of matching.

 

[SeanCC]

Paranoia and lack of confidence decrease your chances of matching.

Paranoia would be me being afriad that the goverment is watching me every morning while I eat my Fruity Pebbles...Not matching, on the other hand, is real and it happened to six people last year who interviewed at 16 or more programs. And, it will happen again to a hand full of us this year. I just wanted to know what made these guys so offensive that no one was willing to take a chance on them....
But if you would really like to increase my confidence level, you are an attending, make some phone calls and tell ALL your PD friends to rank me number one! I'll send you my name and aamc id # in a private message! lol

 

[reedman]

Paranoia would be me being afriad that the goverment is watching me every morning while I eat my Fruity Pebbles...Not matching, on the other hand, is real and it happened to six people last year who interviewed at 16 or more programs. And, it will happen again to a hand full of us this year. I just wanted to know what made these guys so offensive that no one was willing to take a chance on them....
But if you would really like to increase my confidence level, you are an attending, make some phone calls and tell ALL your PD friends to rank me number one! I'll send you my name and aamc id # in a private message! lol

wow that could really backfire...

 

[FutDocI]

Paranoia would be me being afriad that the goverment is watching me every morning while I eat my Fruity Pebbles...Not matching, on the other hand, is real and it happened to six people last year who interviewed at 16 or more programs. And, it will happen again to a hand full of us this year. I just wanted to know what made these guys so offensive that no one was willing to take a chance on them....
But if you would really like to increase my confidence level, you are an attending, make some phone calls and tell ALL your PD friends to rank me number one! I'll send you my name and aamc id # in a private message! lol

I have not looked at all the stats but there is a difference between interviewing at 16 places and ranking all 16 places. My guess is that these folks who interviewed at 16 places were perhaps a bit too cocky about there standing and then only ranked a few. That or they really were social pariahs.

Just breath, we will get there. 🙂

 

[EMAwards]

wow that could really backfire...

Reedman, i doubt this guy is ******ed enough to send someone his name and id number. Besides, even if he did most programs have already certified their ROLs. My PD told me that he actually certified our program's ROL two weeks ago. At this point, the only thing that can affect your match is other applicants' ROLs. Now, all we can do wait until march 18. BTW, anyone know why they make us wait over 2 weeks to let us know where we matched? Ive heard that it only takes the computer an hr or so to run the algorithm.

 

[deleted77919]

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[HIJay]

BTW, anyone know why they make us wait over 2 weeks to let us know where we matched? Ive heard that it only takes the computer an hr or so to run the algorithm.

nrmp runs all sort of statistics on the results before releasing them. its stupid. they can easily do the statistic analysis after the results as well

 

[RxnMan]

nrmp runs all sort of statistics on the results before releasing them. its stupid. they can easily do the statistic analysis after the results as well

The analysis might also be done prior to release of results as a way to independently double-check the Match algorithm (which is also run multiple times).

 

[It'sElectric]

Reedman, i doubt this guy is ******ed enough to send someone his name and id number. Besides, even if he did most programs have already certified their ROLs. My PD told me that he actually certified our program's ROL two weeks ago. At this point, the only thing that can affect your match is other applicants' ROLs. Now, all we can do wait until march 18. BTW, anyone know why they make us wait over 2 weeks to let us know where we matched? Ive heard that it only takes the computer an hr or so to run the algorithm.

Can't programs re-certify their ROLs, just like applicants?? I've changed mine multiple times, so I just assumed that they could do the same.

 

[EMAwards]

The analysis might also be done prior to release of results as a way to independently double-check the Match algorithm (which is also run multiple times).

So, they run the match algorithm multiple times and do an analysis of the results?? That seems like overkill to me.
And yes, im sure that PDs could change their ROLs but at this late stage of the game, they probably wouldn't. So, unless you win some sort of national award or your mug shot flashes across the 10o'clock news or they find out within the next couple of days that you failed ck/cs you aren't moving anywhere on that list.

 

[RxnMan]

So, they run the match algorithm multiple times and do an analysis of the results??...

Eh. It's only the thing that determines the career of 35,000 people who've all spent ~$150,000 the last 8 years of their lives to get to that point. If they feel they need to double check the results, that's ok with me.

 

[It'sElectric]

So, they run the match algorithm multiple times and do an analysis of the results?? That seems like overkill to me.
And yes, im sure that PDs could change their ROLs but at this late stage of the game, they probably wouldn't. So, unless you win some sort of national award or your mug shot flashes across the 10o'clock news or they find out within the next couple of days that you failed ck/cs you aren't moving anywhere on that list.

Yeah, my point exactly. I doubt programs are out there waffling on a daily basis like obsessive med students, but they could certainly drop you in no time, if it came their attention what a boner you are...(I've been dying to use boner on a public forum in a non-sexual manner for at least a month now).

 

[lawj]

If you look at Charting the Outcomes 2009 edition the data is based on ranks, not on interviews. So yes, there were 70 US seniors applying for EM who ranked 16+ places. Out of those 70, 68 matched and 2 did not.

Is it possible these are applicants that ranked an additional specialty and ended up matching to that other specialty?

 

[Doctor Bob]

i heard one story about a kid with significantly above average board scores and grades who matched at his 12th (of 12) program.

I heard about this one guy who was interviewing at this program, and he had above average scores and grades. While on the tour of the hospital, he stuck his hands into the hospital cafeteria's food processors and lost both of his hands. Bam! Didn't match... couldn't do the necessary procedures to be an EM resident.

Oh, and don't even get me started on this story I heard about the goatman.

But seriously, everyone has "heard a story about this one guy..." but in general those are not the norm. Concern yourself with the general trend, rather than the outliers.

 

[doctorFred]

I heard about this one guy who was interviewing at this program, and he had above average scores and grades. While on the tour of the hospital, he stuck his hands into the hospital cafeteria's food processors and lost both of his hands. Bam! Didn't match... couldn't do the necessary procedures to be an EM resident.

Oh, and don't even get me started on this story I heard about the goatman.

But seriously, everyone has "heard a story about this one guy..." but in general those are not the norm. Concern yourself with the general trend, rather than the outliers.

no offense, but no duh. my next sentence was: "nearly all of us will match, and the overwhelming majority will do so at one of their top 5 programs." which most people know already. we were specifically discussing the outliers.

 

[Doctor Bob]

no duh.

Cowabunga.

It's more of the discussing outliers in terms of "I heard this story about..." and "I know this guy who knows a guy who..."
At that point, differentiating true deficiencies that led those people to be outliers from story exaggeration becomes difficult and just clouds the issue.

<shrug> But don't let me derail the conversation. Please resume regularly scheduled programming.