Making up for a past low GPA

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Gatewayhoward

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I posted earlier about being a paramedic and thinking of med school. My grades have steadilly improved since about my first year of college but my GPA is still just below a 3.0. I used to always stay in trouble with my parents and teachers in grade school, cause they all thought I had the potential to be an overachiever. It's funny cause I have a fraternal twin brother, who was in the national honors society and is a straight A student.
So how does someone like me with unrealized potential, make up for my past enough to make it into a medical school?
 
Gatewayhoward said:
So how does someone like me with unrealized potential, make up for my past enough to make it into a medical school?

A good post-bacc and/or excellent MCAT score.
 
It's probably different for each case, but I can share my own story. I graduated in '99 with a 2.73 GPA, BCPM of 2.65. To rectify the situation, I did a post-bacc year during which I earned a 3.93 GPA over 35 credits of work. My cumulative undergrad GPA is now around a 3.0, with a BCPM still a bit lower I think.

In my case, I believe the time that passed between undergrad and post-bacc and the significant improvement in my grades were enough for many schools. I applied to 15, and so far have been interviewed to five and have received five acceptances. I've noticed, though, that as far as rankings go (I know, they don't matter, blah blah blah), there's certainly a range of schools in which my application is competitive and/or strong, and a range in which it doesn't seem to be so great. Let's face it -- my cumulative GPA is still a 3.0, I didn't do any significant research, and my time after school was not spent on medical endeavors. Still, I consider this year to be a successful one for me, and I'm happy with how things have gone.

Hope this helps.
 
blee said:
It's probably different for each case, but I can share my own story. I graduated in '99 with a 2.73 GPA, BCPM of 2.65. To rectify the situation, I did a post-bacc year during which I earned a 3.93 GPA over 35 credits of work. My cumulative undergrad GPA is now around a 3.0, with a BCPM still a bit lower I think.

In my case, I believe the time that passed between undergrad and post-bacc and the significant improvement in my grades were enough for many schools. I applied to 15, and so far have been interviewed to five and have received five acceptances. I've noticed, though, that as far as rankings go (I know, they don't matter, blah blah blah), there's certainly a range of schools in which my application is competitive and/or strong, and a range in which it doesn't seem to be so great. Let's face it -- my cumulative GPA is still a 3.0, I didn't do any significant research, and my time after school was not spent on medical endeavors. Still, I consider this year to be a successful one for me, and I'm happy with how things have gone.

Hope this helps.


wow, now that's cool 🙂
 
I am in a similar situation as MedChic, although I am just starting my post-bac work. I graduated in '96 with a degree in business with a very low GPA (2.32) and only took chemistry. I have gone on to get a Masters degree in IT with a 3.68. I am hoping that enough time has passed between my younger (wild days) and my the post-bac work that I plan on taking will overcome my low GPA from my undergrad. Does anyone think that this is a lost cause? I know that I am capable of acheiving A's in my post-bac classes and have a strong desire to make this work. I have matured considerable in the last 10 years and hope that I am to convey that to the schools.
 
More than a few people told me that I was being unrealistic and overly optimistic about going to med school. I guess they were wrong. On the flip side, there are plenty of people who were in my same situation and did not fare as well for various reasons.

The way I saw it, though, I had a choice. I could stay where I was, maybe change jobs, but never try to become a physician. I could also just put my head down and give it my best shot. One way, I was guaranteed a zero percent chance of getting into medical school. The other way, I had a chance -- how slim of a chance, I didn't know. But spending a couple of years to try, and then fail, was worth more to me than never trying at all. As it turns out, I was right to have tried. 🙂
 
Blee, I agree with you! My wife and I had this discussion last night as I was becoming slightly discouraged with the low GPA. The worst case scenario is that I spend a few thousand dollars (okay that hurts) gaining more knowledge in science (not so bad, we can all learn more) and not get into a medical school. But I would be able to say I gave it my best shot.

From reading a lot of the posts here over the last few weeks, the main theme is to keep your head up and your eye on the goal! ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, sometimes it just is a little tougher road.

Gatewayhoward, I would say that they way to your goal is to be strong and don't get discouraged (that is what I am trying to do)! I have read more than once that the admission boards like to see maturity and dedication. I don't know if it true, but I can't think of a better way to demonstrate both of those attributes then trying and succeeding in making amends for your past!

Good Luck and let me know how you do!
 
blee said:
In my case, I believe the time that passed between undergrad and post-bacc and the significant improvement in my grades were enough for many schools. I applied to 15, and so far have been interviewed to five and have received five acceptances. I've noticed, though, that as far as rankings go (I know, they don't matter, blah blah blah), there's certainly a range of schools in which my application is competitive and/or strong, and a range in which it doesn't seem to be so great.

Did you apply to MD, DO schools or both? Which were the ones you received interviews for?
 
Wsp443 said:
Did you apply to MD, DO schools or both? Which were the ones you received interviews for?
MD only.
 
blee said:
The way I saw it, though, I had a choice. I could stay where I was, maybe change jobs, but never try to become a physician. I could also just put my head down and give it my best shot. One way, I was guaranteed a zero percent chance of getting into medical school. The other way, I had a chance -- how slim of a chance, I didn't know. But spending a couple of years to try, and then fail, was worth more to me than never trying at all. As it turns out, I was right to have tried. 🙂

I have to agree with Blee here...you can't win if you don't play.

Me? El Crappo Supremeo GPA (2.5) undergrad, with a 4.0 in a MS degree that is so unrelated to anything medical it's not funny.

I'm taking a different route though...personally, I like critters, so I'm doing the DVM route. It requires more in the way of pre-recs... the list of pre-reqs I need to take for U of FL is so long that I might as well get a whole new degree.

I know to even have a shot, I have to max out the GPA as well as becoming the fastest super duper pooper scooper in Florida.

But a journey of 1000 miles begins with but a single step...

Oldie
 
Blee--

Did you complete the special masters program at georgetown?

If so I think you should qualify your encouragement with a heavy dose of realism. For anyone who is using Blee as a yardstick, keep in mind his MCAT is off the charts....not everyone can do that. Also the cat gotta 3.9+ in one of the most competitive scenarios for taking first year med school classes out there. Your talking about one bad ass student who made a full frontal assault in his med school pursuit. Hence the 6 acceptances because the adcoms know the dude is bonafied.

I'm all for encouragement and telling people to go for their dreams, but i am an eternal realist as well.--Ben.
 
Unfortunately, a lot of us non-trads didn't have med school as a goal (or didn't have the knowledge/maturity to pursue it properly) in college, and have less-than-stellar GPAs to show for it. 🙁 But, with time and hard work, it's not impossible to overcome previous bad grades. It's tough, though, because while grade trend is important, your undergrad grades will probably still count as a negative in adcom's minds (yes, even after all this time). The negative impact differs depending on the school.

To add another anecdote to the others on this board: I had an overall GPA of ~3.0 in college (with a BCMP GPA of ~2.0). After a >10 year break, I took a few years of undergrad science classes and did very well (close to straight As), which brought my BCMP and total GPA up to ~3.4. I was hoping to do very well on my MCAT, in order to further compensate for my grades. While I got a good score (~30), it was a little worse than my practice tests under realistic testing conditions might have suggested. I considered retaking the MCAT, but decided to see what happened this cycle and re-evaluate later, if necessary. I also have a fair amount of research and clinical experience.

I went into this cycle somewhat realistically--I knew that a lot of schools might see my app and immediately toss it, because of my prior track record. My backup plan was to do an SMP and possibly retake the MCAT. But I was hoping that some schools would take the time to read my app, too. I was really surprised at how things have turned out--I applied to 18 carefully-selected schools, and was incredibly fortunate to have received 10 interview invites (allopathic) and 4 acceptances thus far. I've also received some quick rejections, too.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that *showing* the adcoms that you're not the same student you were "way back when" is important, whether it's via post-bacc science courses, a science grad degree, or an SMP. Getting a really high MCAT score will undoubtedly help you, too--the adcoms will use this as a standardized yardstick with which to measure you against other candidates. Respect this test as a major component of the admissions process (for better or worse), and study accordingly. If your score is not competitive (at least ~28), it might be more difficult to secure an acceptance--be prepared to consider re-taking it. However, the MCAT is NOT the only component of your application--a thoughtful, carefully crafted PS and secondary essays, your ECs and life experiences, and your interviewing/people skills will also play a significant role. But you have to give the adcoms specific examples of how you've matured and why you'd be a good candidate--just being chronologically "older" and vaguely saying that you'd be great in med school because you feel it in your bones doesn't count. Back it up with hard "evidence!" Fortunately, we non-trads have had more time to accumulate these experiences, and often have many concrete experiences from which to draw.

It's not an easy road, and, like Ben, I don't believe that everyone who wants it badly enough and works hard enough will be successful (though I'd like to). But you can give it your best, most carefully-planned, well-informed, patient shot, and you'll have the greatest chance of success. 👍
 
I'll go through this like I went through paramedic school only more driven. When I interviewed for my job, I did it almost arrogantly, just because I knew I was what they wanted. I believe in realism to a point but it's people like to confuse realism with pessimism.
Thanks everyone.
 
Gatewayhoward said:
I posted earlier about being a paramedic and thinking of med school. My grades have steadilly improved since about my first year of college but my GPA is still just below a 3.0. I used to always stay in trouble with my parents and teachers in grade school, cause they all thought I had the potential to be an overachiever. It's funny cause I have a fraternal twin brother, who was in the national honors society and is a straight A student.
So how does someone like me with unrealized potential, make up for my past enough to make it into a medical school?

1.go for a post-bac and rectify your undergrad grades.
2. go for a masters.

I don't know what your major is, but if it is non-science, I would encourage you to go to a post-bac program.

If it is not, well, you can still do a post-bac program: however, it may be seen quite odd for you to repeat the pre-med courses. I suggest you look into a masters program in anatomy at medical schools which may allow you to get into their door if you do well in their program and on the MCAT.

I know USC, RFUHS, Georgetown have these master's programs. I believe also UICCOM has one also but it is not as well-known.

The master's program allows you to take courses with the med students and compete with them. If you can do well or better than they do, you might have a chance of getting into that med school.

You should remain optimistic. Also you will need to rock the MCAT. You need the complete package. I don't know about your EC's either but you should do some in this area.

I do know of others below a 3.00 GPA who have gotten into medical school. However, their MCAT score compensated for their less-than-stellar GPA.

There are many routes to get into med school. Just focus on your goal and get your work done. Do what you need to get into med school. Again, if I can do it against all odds, you can do it too.

Best wishes!
psychedoc2b
 
I am in the same boat.

I have a handful of old F's to deal with. I don't know whether to make them up, or to let them go. I know that while it's irrelevant to my transfer GPA (Davis is only concerned with the make-up grade, and is not concerned with nontransferrable classes' grades) they will never be off of my record as far as med school is concerned. Since they are all in non-prerequisite courses, and some are in remedial non-transfer, I have the opportunity to have a clean slate for my premed science and math courses, but I am not sure this will matter.

Here's what I have in my past:

From age 18:
* one F in a class that is so obscure (the literature of science fiction) that I may never be able to find a replacement class so I can make it up.
* one F in a Geography class I shouldn't have an F in, because I am sure I officially dropped the class after two meetings. The only reason there could possibly be an F is because of some kind of administrative error. I am looking into this. There is no reason this F should be on my record.

Later, before my ADHD and personal issues came to light:
* F in algebra. I later dealt with the issues, and no longer have problems like this with math.
* F in pre-algebra, because I moved away in the middle of a class and the teacher wouldn't let me drop, nor let me appeal it.

* D in a nontransferrable graphic design class that I should probably have a B in, because the teacher is just a malicious SOB.

I've been almost all straight A's and the odd B, since then. Unfortunately despite all my hard work and straight As on the academic portion, I will have a B in my EMT-Basic class, because nerves made my mind go blank during some of the skills finals. I have to retake them.

Anyway, all but the Geography and English classes, are nontransferrable classes. I am wondering if I should make up the Geog and the obscure English class.
 
benelswick said:
Blee--

Did you complete the special masters program at georgetown?

If so I think you should qualify your encouragement with a heavy dose of realism. For anyone who is using Blee as a yardstick, keep in mind his MCAT is off the charts....not everyone can do that. Also the cat gotta 3.9+ in one of the most competitive scenarios for taking first year med school classes out there. Your talking about one bad ass student who made a full frontal assault in his med school pursuit. Hence the 6 acceptances because the adcoms know the dude is bonafied.

I'm all for encouragement and telling people to go for their dreams, but i am an eternal realist as well.--Ben.

Actually, I didn't do the SMP. I had taken all of the usual pre-med courses as an undergrad, but I did a regular undergrad post-baccalaureate program anyway. My reasoning was that by the time I started the program, nearly nine years had passed since I started college; not only did I do poorly in them, so much time had passed that I hardly recalled anything useful. Although I technically re-took those courses, it was as if I'd never taken them before.

It feels good to be called a bad ass student 🙂 but I assure you that I'm no superstar. I know that I'm smart, and that my natural academic abilities are probably greater than average. None of that helped me in college, though, and it sure didn't help me in the beginning of my career. The fact of the matter is that nothing started to go my way until I realized that hard work is the *only* way to realize my potential and be at all successful. I did well as a post-bacc, but I was competing against regular Georgetown undergrads; no small feat, to be sure, but not quite like getting a 3.9+ against a room full of medical students -- the cream of the cream of the crop. Either way, though, I attribute the lion's share of my success to work ethic...and if I can develop one, then anyone can.

But your main point is a good one, and it shouldn't be overlooked. The fact is that the majority of medical school applicants in any given cycle are not accepted anywhere. There is some evidence that suggests that acceptance rates go down with age, which only makes things harder for non-trads like us. It's not impossible, though.
 
I do have the advantage of having a two year degree in EMS, that means A&P I and II, and Bio-101, with most other BS classes out of the way.
 
blee said:
More than a few people told me that I was being unrealistic and overly optimistic about going to med school. I guess they were wrong.

You're right they were wrong..haha. Back in 2002, I went into the counseling office here and discussed with them my grades. Bad time in my life. The guy said that I probably won't get into a grad school at my school. Only way that I could boost my GPA and not spend an arm and a leg for post-bacc was to do grad school. Well low and behold I got into the grad program at my school...so that guy didn't know much. 😉

Anyway, I sure hope you all are right about the amount of time between bad grades vs. good grades. My undergrad grades were junk (<3.0). I did do a (costly) year and a half of post-bacc which gave me a GPA of 3.4 or so. Now nearly completing my core courses for my PhD program, i have a GPA of 4.0 for grad courses. I'm concerned that the adcoms will say that my grad course grades were inflated. I can say they were not, considering the classes were actual med school and vet school courses. Go figure. Now I'm just waiting to get my qualifying exam out of the way and then applying to see if they'd let me in as a MSTP or something (i doubt it) but regardless I'll apply once i'm done with my PhD. Anyone have any ohter thoughts?
 
I don't know much about MSTP or PhDs, but I do know that grad school grades often are considered in a different light. From what I understand, it's not uncommon to have a relatively high graduate GPA. Of course, having a 4.0 grad is much better than having a 2.0 grad. I'm just saying that a 4.0 graduate GPA will most likely not carry the same weight as a 4.0 undergrad GPA. But you probably knew that already.
 
blee said:
I don't know much about MSTP or PhDs, but I do know that grad school grades often are considered in a different light. From what I understand, it's not uncommon to have a relatively high graduate GPA. Of course, having a 4.0 grad is much better than having a 2.0 grad. I'm just saying that a 4.0 graduate GPA will most likely not carry the same weight as a 4.0 undergrad GPA. But you probably knew that already.

Just another anecdote, but I knew someone who had a <3.0 undergrad GPA & BCMP and a PhD in a science (with a 3.7+ grad GPA). He also had a 35+ MCAT score (and he was in his late 30's when he applied). He was accepted to a couple of private schools, but rejected from his state school. When he called to ask why, they specifically told him that his undergrad BCMP GPA was too low, and that he should take some undergrad science classes to increase his chance of acceptance. He asked about his grad GPA and grad science courses, but they said they don't count them as much as the undergrad GPA. 🙁
 
the brown note said:
Just another anecdote, but I knew someone who had a <3.0 undergrad GPA & BCMP and a PhD in a science (with a 3.7+ grad GPA). He also had a 35+ MCAT score (and he was in his late 30's when he applied). He was accepted to a couple of private schools, but rejected from his state school. When he called to ask why, they specifically told him that his undergrad BCMP GPA was too low, and that he should take some undergrad science classes to increase his chance of acceptance. He asked about his grad GPA and grad science courses, but they said they don't count them as much as the undergrad GPA. 🙁

Yea thats the impression that I'm getting, and glad that you all seem to be confirming something so I can plan accordingly. My plan was to take undergrad upper division classes along with my grad courses. Although these will count for my graduate GPA, do you think the adcoms will notice? Or should I point this out in the personal statement? Or should I just stick with my graduate classes?

I don't have any problems taking more undergrad classes. My reasons for doing poorly as an undergrad was due to outstanding events. Really, I just want to get to secondaries, at least by then my letters of rec can kick in. My plan for now is to keep taking classes even when I passed my qualifying exam. My classmates think I'm nuts, but thats the only way I can have tons of graded units to show the adcoms. So whatever works. Anyone else have any thoughts on how to proceed?

On a side note, I did ask the med school here about adding, and they just referred me to the MSTP site, which did not help at all. Hahha...oh well.

🙄
 
Just wanted to follow up on this one. I was able to get a specific answer from some advisors over here. Apparently, taking undergrad courses as a grad student may count towards the post-bacc GPA IF these courses are not required for your graduate degree.

Can anyone confirm this with AMCAS regulations? I cant seem to find anything that specifically refers to this.

Also this might not be applicable to all graduate programs since they were quite concerned about my program not allowing this (luckily they do).
 
relentless11 said:
Just wanted to follow up on this one. I was able to get a specific answer from some advisors over here. Apparently, taking undergrad courses as a grad student may count towards the post-bacc GPA IF these courses are not required for your graduate degree.

Can anyone confirm this with AMCAS regulations? I cant seem to find anything that specifically refers to this.

Also this might not be applicable to all graduate programs since they were quite concerned about my program not allowing this (luckily they do).

Just came across this post--yes, if you take undergrad courses that aren't required for your degree while you're a grad student, the undergrad grades will count toward your post-bacc GPA. I don't know if this is in the AMCAS manual or anything, but I had no problem with this on my application last year. I think I just designated each class as "graduate" or "post-bacc/undergrad" (or whatever the appropriate choice was in the drop-down menu), and the AMCAS-calculated post-bacc GPA was exactly what I had calculated, so they must have done it the same way! 👍
 
Wsp443 said:
Blee, I agree with you! My wife and I had this discussion last night as I was becoming slightly discouraged with the low GPA. The worst case scenario is that I spend a few thousand dollars (okay that hurts) gaining more knowledge in science (not so bad, we can all learn more) and not get into a medical school. But I would be able to say I gave it my best shot.

From reading a lot of the posts here over the last few weeks, the main theme is to keep your head up and your eye on the goal! ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, sometimes it just is a little tougher road.

Gatewayhoward, I would say that they way to your goal is to be strong and don't get discouraged (that is what I am trying to do)! I have read more than once that the admission boards like to see maturity and dedication. I don't know if it true, but I can't think of a better way to demonstrate both of those attributes then trying and succeeding in making amends for your past!

Good Luck and let me know how you do!
With a positive attitude like that, you'll be a winner, I promise you! I wish you all the best.
 
my undergrad gpa is not that good, right now im taking my prereqs and trying to make up my gpa.........like my lawyer/mentor always say "if you will it, there is no dream", so hopefully this will work out for me as well as everyone who is in similar situation as me............
 
relentless11 said:
Just wanted to follow up on this one. I was able to get a specific answer from some advisors over here. Apparently, taking undergrad courses as a grad student may count towards the post-bacc GPA IF these courses are not required for your graduate degree.

Can anyone confirm this with AMCAS regulations? I cant seem to find anything that specifically refers to this.

Also this might not be applicable to all graduate programs since they were quite concerned about my program not allowing this (luckily they do).
most undergraduate courses wouldn't be accetable for the grad degree to my knowledge. I'm doing the same thing (going for masters and take a few undergrad classes I'll have left to boost my gpa HOPEFULLY above a 3.0)

Also, doing one year SMP or two year masters programs geared towards biomedical sciences can help you. Especially if you take classes with the med students. I'm enrolling in a program like that hopefully next summer. They have a 3.0 gpa cut off so hopefully I can get a great GRE score and make it in.

I graduated with a 2.4 gpa for a econ major, and its now about 2.7 after one year of course work. I also have a MBA which I received while working full-time and in the program for the last year full time. My GPA slipped from a 3.8 to a 3.4 in that last year but I needed to finish it. So that helps my "cum" gpa. Since my state school looks at CUM gpa as a cut off this is a nice bonus as they include all classes ever taken to determine the cut off. (It only increases my gpa a .1 anyways) I'm also doing retakes (my first choice is a DO school) to replace a few of my grades, mainly chem, ochem, and a poly sci class.

I have full confidence within the next 2 years I will be in medical school if I so choose. I have an awesome list of resources and people who are willing to help. And I ask questions and really know the process of WHAT I need to do to make myself competitive. Numbers for some schools aren't everything. 🙂

:luck:
 
mshheaddoc said:
most undergraduate courses wouldn't be accetable for the grad degree to my knowledge. I'm doing the same thing (going for masters and take a few undergrad classes I'll have left to boost my gpa HOPEFULLY above a 3.0)

Also, doing one year SMP or two year masters programs geared towards biomedical sciences can help you. Especially if you take classes with the med students. I'm enrolling in a program like that hopefully next summer. They have a 3.0 gpa cut off so hopefully I can get a great GRE score and make it in.

I graduated with a 2.4 gpa for a econ major, and its now about 2.7 after one year of course work. I also have a MBA which I received while working full-time and in the program for the last year full time. My GPA slipped from a 3.8 to a 3.4 in that last year but I needed to finish it. So that helps my "cum" gpa. Since my state school looks at CUM gpa as a cut off this is a nice bonus as they include all classes ever taken to determine the cut off. (It only increases my gpa a .1 anyways) I'm also doing retakes (my first choice is a DO school) to replace a few of my grades, mainly chem, ochem, and a poly sci class.

I have full confidence within the next 2 years I will be in medical school if I so choose. I have an awesome list of resources and people who are willing to help. And I ask questions and really know the process of WHAT I need to do to make myself competitive. Numbers for some schools aren't everything. 🙂

:luck:
i like ur quoats
 
mshheaddoc said:
most undergraduate courses wouldn't be accetable for the grad degree to my knowledge. I'm doing the same thing (going for masters and take a few undergrad classes I'll have left to boost my gpa HOPEFULLY above a 3.0)

Yea, I think thats the case for most grad programs. My PhD program has like 1 or 2 undergrad course requirements, but for most of the students, like myself, these classes have been taken during undergrad. Which is good news undergrad class that I take feeds into my post-bacc GPA 😀 . Now the hard part is finding time to take these classes..lol. 😳
 
I have a relative in this situation so I have a question for you guys...

This is the scenario:

College GPA is 3.0
MCAT 30
No experience research or medical
Say you do not get into any Post bacc program the first year out of college.

Then you take some UGrad courses in a non-matric program, like 3 classes/semester. THen after a year goes by you wish to apply to the postbacc programs again. Will the courses you have taken (6 by then) keep you OUT of the post-bacc program since there will be some overlap (ie already taken physiology/nuero non-matric the year prior) Will this help or hurt the app to the post-baccs???
 
Hoya11 said:
I have a relative in this situation so I have a question for you guys...

This is the scenario:

College GPA is 3.0
MCAT 30
No experience research or medical
Say you do not get into any Post bacc program the first year out of college.

Then you take some UGrad courses in a non-matric program, like 3 classes/semester. THen after a year goes by you wish to apply to the postbacc programs again. Will the courses you have taken (6 by then) keep you OUT of the post-bacc program since there will be some overlap (ie already taken physiology/nuero non-matric the year prior) Will this help or hurt the app to the post-baccs???

I think there may be some terminology confusion here, but the general suggestion is what a lot of people do. Are you meaning trying to get into postbac programs (which count as undergrad) or a SMP which is graduate? Most of the competitive formal UG level postbacs require that you haven't taken the sciences or MCAT yet. Thus if you want to augment your undergrad GPA, you would generally do an informal or open enrollment postbac at which you would take upper level science courses in hopes of moving that 3.0 up a few points. At that point yes, you could apply to an SMP program, which is graduate, and which gives you exposure to med school like classes, but won't increase the undergrad GPA. Most people don't call an SMP or other graduate program a postbac, because it would not be included in that category on AMCAS.
 
My question is this:
Given you have already taken the prereqs,
If one takes Physiology and Anatomy nonmatric to boost UG GPA, then applies to a program like georgetown or Upenn, which feature Physiology/Anatomy, what happens? Do they take the courses twice?
 
Hoya11 said:
My question is this:
Given you have already taken the prereqs,
If one takes Physiology and Anatomy nonmatric to boost UG GPA, then applies to a program like georgetown or Upenn, which feature Physiology/Anatomy, what happens? Do they take the courses twice?

I don't really know, but would assume a graduate level course is not a duplicate of the undergrad. Certainly med school anatomy and physiology courses are not comparable to the undergrad version.
 
Hoya11 said:
My question is this:
Given you have already taken the prereqs,
If one takes Physiology and Anatomy nonmatric to boost UG GPA, then applies to a program like georgetown or Upenn, which feature Physiology/Anatomy, what happens? Do they take the courses twice?

I agree with Law2Doc, if you took a class to boost UG GPA, then that implies it is at the UG level and thus does not equal a graduate or professional level class of the same subject area.

Heck, at some schools, even if you took an actual medical level course, they may still make you take that class again. I took general and systemic pathology from our med school for my PhD requirements, and recently spoke with UW, and they mentioned that I can't waive these classes. UCLA on the other hand will deal with this on a case-by-case basis. Personally if you are doing an SMP, I would hope that I take this again since it would be easier, and more A's to get to prove your ability to do well.
 
Hi,
I am 32 years old. I had a poor GPA (2.5) in Undergrad, about 10 years ago.
Five years ago, I finished a Masters in Public Health, GPA (3.6). I have been in the public health working as an epidemiologist for about 5 years and still feel that my calling is medicine. does anyone have any ideas about how to get started on the process for medical school admissions. What should I do next? should i re take the premed classes, another Masters in science or could i keep studying further in epidemiology (DrPH, PhD) and then apply to MD.
Thanks,
 
You will need to get your gpa up a little more. Most schools will screen for GPA. At least a 3.0 is preferable for DO schools and a little higher for most MD schools.

Maybe do a post-bacc program for a year and do VERY well in those classes. Or you could retake your pre req classes and do some upper level classes on your own. If you didn't do well in your prereqs it might be a good refresher for the MCAT to retake as well. Just some ideas. You need to find out what works best for you !
 
Mary32 said:
Hi,
I am 32 years old. I had a poor GPA (2.5) in Undergrad, about 10 years ago.
Five years ago, I finished a Masters in Public Health, GPA (3.6). I have been in the public health working as an epidemiologist for about 5 years and still feel that my calling is medicine. does anyone have any ideas about how to get started on the process for medical school admissions. What should I do next? should i re take the premed classes, another Masters in science or could i keep studying further in epidemiology (DrPH, PhD) and then apply to MD.
Thanks,

Nearly identical situation Mary. I was 32 and applying to med school. I got my MSPH and then applied to med schools. I am now a third year med student at an osteopathic school, and I could not be happier. Before applying, I did retake a few undergrad classes O-chem and physics to show I could do well in those courses plus prep me for the MCAT. Then, I just really sold the idea that my poor grades were from a while back (10 yrs old), I was dedicated, and I brought some things unique to a medical school class (professional experience, public health, and maturity). Definitely apply to both allopathic and osteopathic schools, and pray you get an interview. my thinking was if I can just get by the initial screening and get an interview.........I had a shot.
Good luck to you. I do not think another masters degree will do the trick however.
 
Mary32 said:
Hi,
I am 32 years old. I had a poor GPA (2.5) in Undergrad, about 10 years ago.
Five years ago, I finished a Masters in Public Health, GPA (3.6). I have been in the public health working as an epidemiologist for about 5 years and still feel that my calling is medicine. does anyone have any ideas about how to get started on the process for medical school admissions. What should I do next? should i re take the premed classes, another Masters in science or could i keep studying further in epidemiology (DrPH, PhD) and then apply to MD.
Thanks,
Some schools will not accept prerequisites more than 10 years old. Check with some schools that you're interested in and talk with their admissions office. Taking some more ugrad classes will help you get that GPA up too, so you should consider taking prereqs anyways. A MS is good, but as someone that went that route, I'll tell you it doesn't have the punch (in terms of getting into med school) that ugrad classes will (post-bacc and the like).

I also had a low ugrad GPA and I'll be entering med school in a few weeks. PM me if you'd like help.
 
RxnMan said:
Some schools will not accept prerequisites more than 10 years old. Check with some schools that you're interested in and talk with their admissions office. Taking some more ugrad classes will help you get that GPA up too, so you should consider taking prereqs anyways. A MS is good, but as someone that went that route, I'll tell you it doesn't have the punch (in terms of getting into med school) that ugrad classes will (post-bacc and the like).

I also had a low ugrad GPA and I'll be entering med school in a few weeks. PM me if you'd like help.

Hi RxnMan,
Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it. I am so amazed that there are so many people helping each other achieve the same goals. Thanks for being realistic and stating the steps to progress in your pm. you will be a great doc if you took such care to explain to your patients about their problems...best of luck and I will be in touch if any other questions come up.
🙂
 
mshheaddoc said:
You will need to get your gpa up a little more. Most schools will screen for GPA. At least a 3.0 is preferable for DO schools and a little higher for most MD schools.

Maybe do a post-bacc program for a year and do VERY well in those classes. Or you could retake your pre req classes and do some upper level classes on your own. If you didn't do well in your prereqs it might be a good refresher for the MCAT to retake as well. Just some ideas. You need to find out what works best for you !
Thanks for your advice. I will keep in mind.
 
One more situation similar to the original posted here. I am currently 82 credits into my ugrad degree with a GPA of 2.29 (BCPM 2.46) following a rough semester. I will be completing my degree online and doing some of the liberal arts classes at a local CC. Out of the premed prereqs I have only taken Gen Chem I (C), Bio I (B) (did not complete Bio II and got an F) and ugrad A&P I and II (both Cs). My question is this: What is the smartest option at this point in my ugrad career? It's gonna take some serious credits of 4.0 work just to bring my GPA near 3.0 Money is also an issue. I am unable to take any extra sciences at the school I am matriculated at as I am online a distance learning student there and several states away. Should I try to take the remaining math/sciences ala carte (might be too expensive to be feasible for me anyway) while I finish my ugrad degree online or should I wait and do a tradional postbacc (assuming I haven't already taken too many sciences to get in). I think an SMP is a stretch, and wouldn't help my ugrad GPA which will need the help. I have 5 years experience as an EMT (both paid and volunteer) and am currently working as a vet tech. No other medically related experience/ECs. Anything I can do meanwhile to boost my chances?
 
djcbtv said:
One more situation similar to the original posted here. I am currently 82 credits into my ugrad degree with a GPA of 2.29 (BCPM 2.46) following a rough semester. I will be completing my degree online and doing some of the liberal arts classes at a local CC. Out of the premed prereqs I have only taken Gen Chem I (C), Bio I (B) (did not complete Bio II and got an F) and ugrad A&P I and II (both Cs). My question is this: What is the smartest option at this point in my ugrad career? It's gonna take some serious credits of 4.0 work just to bring my GPA near 3.0 Money is also an issue. I am unable to take any extra sciences at the school I am matriculated at as I am online a distance learning student there and several states away. Should I try to take the remaining math/sciences ala carte (might be too expensive to be feasible for me anyway) while I finish my ugrad degree online or should I wait and do a tradional postbacc (assuming I haven't already taken too many sciences to get in). I think an SMP is a stretch, and wouldn't help my ugrad GPA which will need the help. I have 5 years experience as an EMT (both paid and volunteer) and am currently working as a vet tech. No other medically related experience/ECs. Anything I can do meanwhile to boost my chances?

You already answered your question, you will need to perform a lot better in upper division science classes, preferably IN-CLASS courses, not online. Money is ALWAYS an issue, so it comes down to how much you want to become a physician. Schools want to see success in challenging coursework, and at the very least an upward trend in your grades, and if possible a GPA above 3.0. You of course will need to have a very high MCAT score, at least greater than 33, however even with a high MCAT score, it will be a very tough battle for you. Reasons for the above being:

1) There tends to be a bias at some schools against online classes.and even community college classes. Whether or not this is true, this may be complicated by your low GPA. I have never taken a real online class so cannot say, but I do know for a fact that my school, UC Davis does not accept any online coursework. It may be possible that many other schools are like this, mainly because the vast majority of applicants take classes the traditional way.

2) Med schools are forgiving, and thus upward trends are looked at in a positive light. Univ. of Washington actually weights your latter years in college, however with nearly 90 units of coursework with a GPA of 2.29, that may not help you. Additionally, some schools may screen GPA, and the cut-off is around a 3.0 to a 3.2. So you may be knocked out of the application game right off the bat.

As stated, your undergrad GPA should be your focus. It is a blaring red flag to the adcoms, and honestly any other attribute that you slap onto your application may not help. Any amount of extracurriculars can never make up for a low GPA/MCAT.

Look at it this way, my undergrad GPA was a 2.65, MCAT was 36, and at the time of graduating, I had around 20 publications, and countless hours of volunteering in hospitals and in the community. BUT, that GPA stood out like a sore thumb. That won't cut it at our med school (California), and thus I did post-bacc and now doing a PhD to get my undergrad GPA up to a 3.0 (taking undergrad classes as a PhD student). For med schools outside of CA, it may be a tad easier, but no cake walk for me either.

An unofficial post-bacc or a less competative official post-bacc program may be your only savior. SMPs and well-known post-bacc programs are inherently competative. These usually have a pretty high GPA criteria (2.7-3.3)..with SMPs having a higher admission criteria. They also have the right to pick people they deem suitable (e.g., high stats) to succeed (e.g., get into med school) so they can boost their prestiege. Graduate school may not be helpful, since as you stated you need to boost your undergrad GPA, and on top of that, most grad programs have a 3.0 GPA requirement, not to mention research experience. So yea, no offense, but you already know what you have to do, why ask when you can do what you already stated?
 
So I guess the take home message from this thread is that if one did poorly in undergrad prereqcourses (say a C avg) that the most advisable course of action would be to retake these prereq classes as a non degree seeking postbac student as opposed to taking more upper divisional courses?

Whew, long sentence.... :scared:
 
AlberttheGator said:
So I guess the take home message from this thread is that if one did poorly in undergrad prereqcourses (say a C avg) that the most advisable course of action would be to retake these prereq classes as a non degree seeking postbac student as opposed to taking more upper divisional courses?

Whew, long sentence.... :scared:

Yes. And that has the added benefit of helping you with the MCAT, as those courses are directly covered by that test.
But a lot of people improve their chances for med school if they do both (retake the prereqs they did badly in and take a few upper levels). If you can show med schools current success in sciences (prereqs and above) that goes a long way in allaying adcom's fears.
Plus if you are looking at DO schools, the retake grade reportedly will replace the prior one rather than get averaged in with it, so you can bring your GPA up faster for DO via this route (but not allo).
 
Ok I have a pretty good MCAT, not stellar but avg... (31P), but my GPA is what is holding me back..... I also have taken UD science classes and have a higher GPA in those classes than when I was taking the prereqs as a freshman and sophmore.

Isnt there a stigma with retaking the prereqs and getting A's in them a second time around or is that false? :scared:

I guess I should retake gen chem and bio since I got C's in them?? :scared:
 
Mary32 said:
Hi RxnMan,
Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it. I am so amazed that there are so many people helping each other achieve the same goals. Thanks for being realistic and stating the steps to progress in your pm. you will be a great doc if you took such care to explain to your patients about their problems...best of luck and I will be in touch if any other questions come up.
🙂
You're welcome. I'm trying to provide a service that was not available to me when I started. I also spent a lot of time and suffered a great deal to get my one acceptance. I had freedoms that others may not (e.g., no spouse or kids), but even then it was very hard and I gave up a lot for it.

Best of luck you and the rest of the folks on this thread.
 
Law2Doc said:
...Plus if you are looking at DO schools, the retake grade reportedly will replace the prior one rather than get averaged in with it, so you can bring your GPA up faster for DO via this route (but not allo).
I believe this answers your question, Albert. Check out the DO forum for info on how AACOMAS (the DO application service) treats re-takes. It's not so much a stigma as a need for efficientcy - AMCAS averages retakes (above).
 
Thanks for the reply. I simply wanted to make sure I am understanding my options correctly, and see if there is anything else I can do to improve my record. Uphill battle for sure. The online coursework is all related to a non-science degree, although perhaps getting into a science degree and having the opportunity to incorporate inclass upper level ugrad sciences might really be the best bet. Thanks again for the response.

relentless11 said:
You already answered your question, you will need to perform a lot better in upper division science classes, preferably IN-CLASS courses, not online. Money is ALWAYS an issue, so it comes down to how much you want to become a physician. Schools want to see success in challenging coursework, and at the very least an upward trend in your grades, and if possible a GPA above 3.0. You of course will need to have a very high MCAT score, at least greater than 33, however even with a high MCAT score, it will be a very tough battle for you. Reasons for the above being:

1) There tends to be a bias at some schools against online classes.and even community college classes. Whether or not this is true, this may be complicated by your low GPA. I have never taken a real online class so cannot say, but I do know for a fact that my school, UC Davis does not accept any online coursework. It may be possible that many other schools are like this, mainly because the vast majority of applicants take classes the traditional way.

2) Med schools are forgiving, and thus upward trends are looked at in a positive light. Univ. of Washington actually weights your latter years in college, however with nearly 90 units of coursework with a GPA of 2.29, that may not help you. Additionally, some schools may screen GPA, and the cut-off is around a 3.0 to a 3.2. So you may be knocked out of the application game right off the bat.

As stated, your undergrad GPA should be your focus. It is a blaring red flag to the adcoms, and honestly any other attribute that you slap onto your application may not help. Any amount of extracurriculars can never make up for a low GPA/MCAT.

Look at it this way, my undergrad GPA was a 2.65, MCAT was 36, and at the time of graduating, I had around 20 publications, and countless hours of volunteering in hospitals and in the community. BUT, that GPA stood out like a sore thumb. That won't cut it at our med school (California), and thus I did post-bacc and now doing a PhD to get my undergrad GPA up to a 3.0 (taking undergrad classes as a PhD student). For med schools outside of CA, it may be a tad easier, but no cake walk for me either.

An unofficial post-bacc or a less competative official post-bacc program may be your only savior. SMPs and well-known post-bacc programs are inherently competative. These usually have a pretty high GPA criteria (2.7-3.3)..with SMPs having a higher admission criteria. They also have the right to pick people they deem suitable (e.g., high stats) to succeed (e.g., get into med school) so they can boost their prestiege. Graduate school may not be helpful, since as you stated you need to boost your undergrad GPA, and on top of that, most grad programs have a 3.0 GPA requirement, not to mention research experience. So yea, no offense, but you already know what you have to do, why ask when you can do what you already stated?
 
djcbtv said:
Thanks for the reply. I simply wanted to make sure I am understanding my options correctly, and see if there is anything else I can do to improve my record. Uphill battle for sure. The online coursework is all related to a non-science degree, although perhaps getting into a science degree and having the opportunity to incorporate inclass upper level ugrad sciences might really be the best bet. Thanks again for the response.

Yea just hang in there man, just take one thing at a time.
 
blee said:
The way I saw it, though, I had a choice. I could stay where I was, maybe change jobs, but never try to become a physician. I could also just put my head down and give it my best shot. One way, I was guaranteed a zero percent chance of getting into medical school. The other way, I had a chance -- how slim of a chance, I didn't know. But spending a couple of years to try, and then fail, was worth more to me than never trying at all. As it turns out, I was right to have tried. 🙂

Blee, thanks so much for this post. Your last line was something that, in a sense, I needed to hear today.

Actually, reading this whole thread was something I needed today so my thanks to you all.

I've wanted to be a doc since I was a little girl. Due to a family tragedy in my first year of undergrad, my grades slipped dramatically and I had to put my medical dreams on hold. Some people said I should just forget medical school and deal with the fact that I had done horrendously on some of the pre-reqs my first semester of undergrad. So, I left the science major I was pursuing in favor of an English major (which was going to be my second major anyway). I pulled in great grades, but because of my terrible first year I still ended up under a 3.0. My dream of becoming a doctor has not died and I am now two years out of undergrad and still wondering if I should take a leap and just go to a post-bacc. But, I've been beating myself up about past failures.

Reading this thread, however, has given me the extra push to go for what I really want. I have no doubt that, given another shot, I can do well in the pre-reqs and prove myself worthy of even applying to med schools. So, thank you all so much for sharing your stories. It's nice to interact with others that share similar experiences. 🙂
 
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