Making your rank lists in rad onc

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cyberknife

cyberknife
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so how exactly does it work in radiation oncology? the spirit of the NRMP suggests ranking programs based on your true preferences, programs are supposed to do the same, and then voila! (hopefully).

i hear that with so few positions per program, programs rank highly those students they 1) like very much but also 2) who communicate (directly or through faculty) "i am ranking you number 1."??

i understand both are neccessary to solidify chances of matching.

a few different residents have told me that you are therefore at a serious disadvantage at your non-number 1 program. basically match at number 1 or fall way down the ladder.

is any of this true?

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Don't try to game the system. There are too many unknown variables involved. You cannot possibly know what programs are thinking or how they are going to rank.

If it makes you feel better, you may tell a program that they're your #1 choice. Otherwise, trust in the Match and rank according to your preference.
 
I agree with Gfunk6. In addition, if you look at the algorithm posted on the NRMP website, you get the best shot at matching at the place you really want to by ranking that place first, regardless of where they rank you. Even if it's a really competitive program and you don't match, it won't hurt your chance at matching with a lower ranked program in any way. There is really no way or reason for you to try to "cheat" the system. Couples match is a bit more complicated but you still should rank your true preference.

The whole gaming the system matters more to the programs because they care about how far down the rank list they go, so they need to consider which student will rank them high, it's irrelevant to the applicants. Worry about it when you become a program director :laugh:.
 
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I agree with Gfunk6. In addition, if you look at the algorithm posted on the NRMP website, you get the best shot at matching at the place you really want to by ranking that place first, regardless of where they rank you. Even if it's a really competitive program and you don't match, it won't hurt your chance at matching with a lower ranked program in any way. There is really no way or reason for you to try to "cheat" the system. Couples match is a bit more complicated but you still should rank your true preference.

The whole gaming the system matters more to the programs because they care about how far down the rank list they go, so they need to consider which student will rank them high, it's irrelevant to the applicants. Worry about it when you become a program director :laugh:.

this may be a very dumb question, but given that most programs have like 1-2 positions (and 10-15 applicants per spot), aren't there enough applicants for each program that communicate clearly that "i am ranking you 1" (AND that the program also likes). in my head, although this is probably very very wrong, i just have this notion of people matching at their number 1 or else....
 
this may be a very dumb question, but given that most programs have like 1-2 positions (and 10-15 applicants per spot), aren't there enough applicants for each program that communicate clearly that "i am ranking you 1" (AND that the program also likes). in my head, although this is probably very very wrong, i just have this notion of people matching at their number 1 or else....

Like ciberknife said him/herself, I don't think that's true. Maybe it's just me, but I know many people who matched somewhere in the middle of their rank list. I see that in the worst case scenario you can slide really low down the list but I don't think that happens very commonly. The others can probably ask around and shed some light on this.

Also, going back to what Gfunk6 was saying, we need to have faith in the system and also there are way too many unknown variables involved. We need to have faith because, let's face it, a program will not bump you up from number 10 to number 1 just because you said you would rank them number one. The programs probably get plenty of those communications and will most likely end up ranking the applicants more or less according to their true desirability anyway. In the end, I think that if you're a great applicant you will match towards the top of your rank list and the opposite is true if you're a weak applicant. There are exceptions to everything but I don't think it's worth the chance of lowering the odds at matching into the other programs by diverting from your true preference on your rank list.

Also, there are too many unknown variables. For example, if you're like most of us and not a superstar candidate with 280 on Step 1 and a million publications, in which case you probably won't care about this issue, then if you only had one shot at increasing your odds at matching with a particular program, you wouldn't be doing that with your true top choice (Harvard, UCSF etc. assuming you got interviews, which I didn't). So then, assuming what you and I are both right, a bunch of mid-tier programs will end up getting a lot of these communications and match them, leaving the top tier program spots for those who ranked according to their true preference without trying to play the system. This example, just like the concern above, is a theoretical one but I am just saying the opposite could occur and the whole thing becomes a huge mindf&%k if you think too much into it.

I'm always open to suggestions that will improve my match, so if anyone else has some expertise on this or knows a study that looked at this issue, please share with everybody. Good luck with rest of the interview season and the match everyone!
 
After talking to many residents, it seems that for the people for whom the match worked - they believe in the system. For those who didn't match or fell well down their list, they are much less optimistic. For many of the residents that may post on this forum, they may very well have gotten their 1st or 2nd choice, but its definitely not the case for others. No good answer to how we should navigate this system, but just hope that it does work out...
 
I think in the majority of cases people do the right thing - candidates rank the programs they want in the order they want, and the programs do the same thing.

However, I know firsthand more than a few programs have more interest in guaranteeing a match or being able to say the matched their first choice, rather than actually rate the candidates in the order they believe should match.

Overall, the match favors candidates and is probably the only legitimate auction/game to distribute residencies. In a small field like this, I couldn't imagine the old days. A guy who was a chief resident the first year I interviewed told me he rotated at UCLA in July of his senior year. At the end of his rotation, they offered him the spot and just a few days to decide. Not knowing what lay ahead, he took the spot.

-S
 
If you go to the ERAS website there's a link that explains the algorithm clearly. You are not penalized for ranking a place lower than another. The algorithm goes by your top choices in descending order and THEN compares it with where you stand on the program's rank list. When the next applicant is evaluated, the algorithm bumps you up or down accordingly and it just keeps cycling. It's a little difficult to describe right here.

Bottom Line: Rank based on where YOU want to go.
 
don't forget, people lie. and programs know that people can lie. just because you tell a program they are your number one choice does not mean they will absolutely believe you (the subject of lying is a whole other can of worms and has been discussed in other threads). it would be foolish for a program to move a candidate up a list solely based on the fact the candidate swears the program is their number one choice. the program also wants the people it wants (assuming those candidate want to be there), not just the people that REALLY REALLY want to be there. ultimately, it is important to express to a program you would be happy to match there, and then rank based on where you want to go.
 
Interestingly my buddy going into rads claims the ABR has some sort of residency program ranking scheme which includes how far programs have to fall down their rank list to fill. Seems like a poorly thought out metric but meh. Can't believe PDs would place much value in rad onc where allotments are so small and you just want a good fit. Transitional and prelim PDs definitely do pay attention to it from what I gather during interviews.
 
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