TikiTorches

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Have you come across men who get depressed after masturbating?

But also can't get a woman for intimacy?

I see how men can become incels as it isuch easier for women to date on web apps.

How to help a man with these frustrations?
Thank you.
 

MamaPhD

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In no particular order: (1) address erroneous/maladaptive beliefs about sexuality; (2) address underlying social anxiety/social skills deficits; (3) try to cultivate some insight into self-defeating behaviors (eg, rejecting viable partners due to unrealistic standards); (4) there is a rare disorder in men called post-orgasmic illness syndrome (Post-orgasmic illness syndrome: history and current perspectives) that is not specific to masturbation but something to consider depending on how badly he feels.

I see how men can become incels as it isuch easier for women to date on web apps.
Women are afraid of being stalked, raped, or killed by men they meet online, so kindly put this "easier" BS to bed.
 

TikiTorches

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In no particular order: (1) address erroneous/maladaptive beliefs about sexuality; (2) address underlying social anxiety/social skills deficits; (3) try to cultivate some insight into self-defeating behaviors (eg, rejecting viable partners due to unrealistic standards); (4) there is a rare disorder in men called post-orgasmic illness syndrome (Post-orgasmic illness syndrome: history and current perspectives) that is not specific to masturbation but something to consider depending on how badly he feels.



Women are afraid of being stalked, raped, or killed by men they meet online, so kindly put this "easier" BS to bed.
I have referred him to therapists but he stubbornly refuses. Cognitively rigid and immature
 
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summerbabe

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How to help a man with these frustrations?
I would conceptualize it like any other psychosocial/psychiatric concerns and do a functional assessment like what @MamaPhD suggested. I'd also add that there can be significant issues with shame when it comes to sex that can be cultural/religious-based and related to family of origin stuff.

I would balance being emphatic of their difficulties but use therapy to challenge them to think and behave in more adaptive fashions, starting with helping them to better understand how they end up in these depressed states and collaborate with them to identify positive new behaviors/ways of thinking.

Intimacy is a privilege and something that one should work for. If that person is feeling dejected/rejected, then I want to help them try to change the conditions that create this reality.

None of us are perfectly desirable as a partner but we can always work on ourselves and work towards achieving what we really want in life.
 

PsyDr

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1) Post coital dysphoria is a known phenomenon. This should be addressed.

2) Ask him if he actually wants to do something about it, or if he just wants to complain. Ask him to define his ideal outcome. Maybe it’s a billionaire supermodel who is sexually aroused by watching overweight dudes, in black graphic t shirts, playing video games. Ask him how much he is willing to compromise in different areas including His hobbies, potential partners looks, etc to realistically meet his goals. Have you ever seen super kinky people? Usually not the most attractive group. Maybe wearing Star Wars t shirts, playing video games all day, and watching cartoons is more important to him than getting laid. Maybe he’s a 3 and willing to date a 1 if she is willing to put up with that stuff. Motivational interviewing afterwards.

3) Ask him what areas of functioning are important to women. Then ask him how many of his identified preferences are supported by being portrayed in women focused media. Ask him what he brings to the table in such areas as: social skills, how he spends his free time, physical fitness, style/dress, income, etc. Ask him what his competition brings to the table. Ask him which he would prefer, if he were a woman. Ask him what he needs to do to get above his competition. Actionable steps on each.
 
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TikiTorches

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He is a minority, and feels like white males get preference in relationships.

He is fit and eats correctly. Expectations are reasonable, just wants a woman who doesn't smoke.

I am a female psych so unsure if he feels if I is helpful to vent to me.
 

TikiTorches

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1) Post coital dysphoria is a known phenomenon. This should be addressed.

2) Ask him if he actually wants to do something about it, or if he just wants to complain. Ask him to define his ideal outcome. Maybe it’s a billionaire supermodel who is sexually aroused by watching overweight dudes, in black graphic t shirts, playing video games. Ask him how much he is willing to compromise in different areas including His hobbies, potential partners looks, etc to realistically meet his goals. Have you ever seen super kinky people? Usually not the most attractive group. Maybe wearing Star Wars t shirts, playing video games all day, and watching cartoons is more important to him than getting laid. Maybe he’s a 3 and willing to date a 1 if she is willing to put up with that stuff. Motivational interviewing afterwards.

3) Ask him what areas of functioning are important to women. Then ask him how many of his identified preferences are supported by being portrayed in women focused media. Ask him what he brings to the table in such areas as: social skills, how he spends his free time, physical fitness, style/dress, income, etc. Ask him what his competition brings to the table. Ask him which he would prefer, if he were a woman. Ask him what he needs to do to get above his competition. Actionable steps on each.
Not sure how to address post coital dysphoria. I'm treating him for depression. I don't know of any addl meds for post coital
 

PsyDr

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His stated preferences might be reasonable, but it is unlikely that his actions match his statements. And such statements of openness are discordant with his psychotherapy refusal. In short, Im calling BS.

That being said: Is he pursuing women of all races, educational status, social class, parent status, hobbies, sexual interests, location, appearance, etc? I’ve never seen that happen. I can’t even think of a dating app
that allows that. And if he is not being honest about his problem, then what’s the point of getting help?

White males might get preferential status in the women he is pursuing, but there is literally zero chance that white men get preference in all women. Sounds like a way he has excused his own failures.
 
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TikiTorches

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His stated preferences might be reasonable, but it is unlikely that his actions match his statements. And such statements of openness are discordant with his psychotherapy refusal. In short, Im calling BS.

That being said: Is he pursuing women of all races, educational status, social class, parent status, hobbies, sexual interests, location, appearance, etc? I’ve never seen that happen. I can’t even think of a dating app
that allows that. And if he is not being honest about his problem, then what’s the point of getting help?

White males might get preferential status in the women he is pursuing, but there is literally zero chance that white men get preference in all women. Sounds like a way he has excused his own failures.
I will delve deeper
 

Indiana_Jane0411

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More thorough assessment (I don’t mean an MMPI). This could be the result of myriad factors (and various interactions of said factors) as others have suggested.
 

WisNeuro

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More thorough assessment (I don’t mean an MMPI). This could be the result of myriad factors (and various interactions of said factors) as others have suggested.
I dunno, in this case, a personality assessment may actually be helpful. Also where an in-depth functional assessment may be helpful. If this pt were actually open to therapy, someone skilled in FAP (Functional Analytic Psychotherapy) may be particularly helpful.
 

conky124

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Not that this will fix the issue entirely, but I think this may be a good resource for men (and really any gender) in seeking dating advice. I found "the single guy" channel on youtube very helpful when I entered the dating world last year after coming out of a long relationship. I had been wondering if it would be a good resource to suggest to others, but I don't specialize in this kind of thing. I do like that the channel is encourages men/women to work on pursuing their goals and values concurrently and to simply engage in more activities where you can build your social network. His advice for seeking dates really is about how to find women who are interested in you already, making them feel safe and comfortable while you talk to them in a lighthearted and playful way, and to focus constructing fun dates. Curious what others think of the channel and this guy's advice.
 

Indiana_Jane0411

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I dunno, in this case, a personality assessment may actually be helpful. Also where an in-depth functional assessment may be helpful. If this pt were actually open to therapy, someone skilled in FAP (Functional Analytic Psychotherapy) may be particularly helpful.
I agree! I should’ve been more specific - additional assessment (functional included) but not JUST an MMPI or PAI, etc. ;)
 
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TikiTorches

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Does it feel like he's headed this way? I ask because I've seen a legitimate uptick in problematic thinking errors that seems to fuel this in early 20s men these last few years. Hopefully not to late to cut it off.
I'm getting that flavor from him. He's so angry
 

cara susanna

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Also, this person would do well to set other life goals aside from attaining a relationship. Hobbies are a great way to meet people--platonic or otherwise.
This - I've read a lot on incels, and (misogyny aside) a lot of them seem to think that having a girlfriend would solve all of their problems. It's like an eating disorder and being skinny.
 

tr

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I am a female psych so unsure if he feels if I is helpful to vent to me.
I suspect these patients feel more comfortable with male psychiatrists. The couple I've seen have viewed women as a totally alien species, basically objects of either conquest or disinterest, and it's really hard for them to relate to us as human beings. It's like there's no theory of mind for people outside their gender.

On the other hand if you can get them to relate to you as a human instead of an object, that could possibly represent a pretty powerful form of progress.
 

TikiTorches

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I trie
I suspect these patients feel more comfortable with male psychiatrists. The couple I've seen have viewed women as a totally alien species, basically objects of either conquest or disinterest, and it's really hard for them to relate to us as human beings. It's like there's no theory of mind for people outside their gender.

On the other hand if you can get them to relate to you as a human instead of an object, that could possibly represent a pretty powerful form of progress.
I tried to refer him to male psychotherapist. He refused.
 
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PsyDr

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He is much less angry today. No More Mr. Nice Guy book has helped him.
Wait until he learns that only male authors write Byronic heroes.


"How
does he do it?" you ask. "He wears
bad sweaters, he's grumpy, he's
broke, he hangs out with the
Musical ***** Twins, and he gets to
go to bed with a recording artist
who looks like Susan Dey-slash-Meg
Ryan. What's going on? Listen up,
because I think I can explain, with
all modesty aside: I ask questions.
That's it. That's my secret. It
works precisely because that isn't
how you're supposed to do it, if
you listen to the collective male
wisdom. There are still enough
old-style, big-mouthed, egomaniacs
running around to make someone like
me appear to be refreshingly
different. If you can't hack this
simple strategy, there are some
women out there, of course, who
want to get pushed around, ignored
and mowed over, but do you really
want to be with them anyway?”
 
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