Maneuvering the Rank List

[bethematch]

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I've heard that you're supposed to tell your #1 that you're going to rank them #1. I've also heard that you're supposed to tell the other programs that are high on your list that you're going to rank them highly. I've even had a couple of faculty members at multiple places tell me that affects their rank list.

I understand telling your #1 once you decide they're #1, but isn't it kind of to your disadvantage if you tell a program they'll be ranked 'highly,' which obviously means that they aren't at the top of your list. I'm not trying to be dishonest or anything, but it's going to be a tight decision for my 1/2/3 spots and I don't necessarily want to be bumped down a list if a program knows that they aren't my #1. I was just wondering how people have handled this in the past and if you think it even became an issue.

I wish we weren't allowed to communicate this stuff to programs.

 

[Gfunk6]

1. Don't try to 'game' the system
2. Telling a program that they are your #1 choice is optional; if you opt to do this, don't tell > 1 program that they are your #1; if they talk then you are screwed
3. Using a phrase other than "you're my #1" will automatically be interpreted as "not #1"; euphemisms for this include "ranking you highly," "you're one of my top choices," etc.
4. Sometimes PDs will call you days/weeks before the rank list deadline and tell you, "we think you were great, we are planning to rank you highly. You know, we only make a couple of these calls a year." Respond nicely and tell them you appreciate their call. Then rank them however you'd like and try to ignore what they said.

 

[Sheldor]

1. Don't try to 'game' the system
2. Telling a program that they are your #1 choice is optional; if you opt to do this, don't tell > 1 program that they are your #1; if they talk then you are screwed
3. Using a phrase other than "you're my #1" will automatically be interpreted as "not #1"; euphemisms for this include "ranking you highly," "you're one of my top choices," etc.
4. Sometimes PDs will call you days/weeks before the rank list deadline and tell you, "we think you were great, we are planning to rank you highly. You know, we only make a couple of these calls a year." Respond nicely and tell them you appreciate their call. Then rank them however you'd like and try to ignore what they said.

Please everyone, listen to Gfunk! Myself and a couple other people I know did just a touch of trying to "game" the system. Luckily, it worked out great for me, but it turned out as luck not because of the way I did the rank list. So please, don't game the system, quite literally just rank them in the order you'd see yourself being happy without regard for how you think they may feel about you.

Imagine it like this, you're sitting in a bar and your non-medical friend says, "So, how are interviews going?"

You respond cordially, "Good, glad they're over though cause it was tiring."

Your friend asks you the fateful question, "Ya, I bet. So which were your favorite? In fact, why don't you list them for me in the order of which were your favorite?"

Boom. That list you would tell them, is the rank list you should make. 🙂

 

[Gfunk6]

I agree that is difficult to be a match "purist" in the face of faculty solicitations to the contrary. Best to look at it from a worst/best case scenario. Programs have a lot less at stake in this process than you do individually as an applicant.

Even in rare cases where programs fail to fill, there are a ton of very high quality candidates in the scramble. If you as an applicant fail to match, then your prospects are poor.

 

[medgator]

Even in rare cases where programs fail to fill, there are a ton of very high quality candidates in the scramble. If you as an applicant fail to match, then your prospects are poor.

I would qualify that statement by adding "in the match"

I know of many people who get spots out of the match (or have traditionally done so), but as I understand it, this is now no longer allowed unless it is done through the NRMP.

 

[ramsesthenice]

A couple things.

1) many programs have you ranked before you even get to the airport to go home. There is no game to those places.

2) now that I'm on the other end, we really are fighting over you guys. As an applicant I remember just hoping to crack a few places top numbers. The feeling really is mutual. The places bringing you out really do hope to make an impression and end up high on your list too.

Don't stress about this. It's a good idea to tell your true #1 they are #1. Outside of that I wouldn't say anything else.

 

[bethematch]

sounds good...thanks a lot!

 

[npost]

I sent out my "you are my #1" email like 3 weeks ago and now I am having second thoughts and want to rank my original no.2 as my new no. 1. Is this bad? I do not plan on sending out another email. But I am having ethical crisis. Should I just stick with my old no. 1? What does everyone think?

 

[ramsesthenice]

Ouch. Thats a tough one. Depends on why you are having second thoughts. Is there somewhere you know you want to be more or is it something more basic than that? Telling a place you are number ranking them #1 and then getting cought with your pants down is embarresing and not a good thing. Then again, neither is missing out on 4 years at a place you would rather be because you made a premature call. I think if you really want to be somewhere else you should change your list. If your on the fence then just leave it alone.

 

[RadOnc37]

Have to side mostly with ramsesthenice. The risk you take all depends on your and your audience's (the program's) moral viewpoint towards the situation. If you make the switch and your old #1 finds out because they match below you on their list, they may or very well may not care/carry a lasting impression of you from that event. If they don't care, great. Likely, they'll forget about it after a few years anyway, but, of course, an individual or two at that institution might not forget. This is all in the context of your old #1 ranking you high enough to match in the first place. I do not know how likely you view that rank situation. I'm sorry this is only putting into text what I'm sure you already know.

Presumably, you really like your old #1, given that you felt strongly enough to send that email. The beauty of the field at this time is that there are several places where we each would be very happy to end up. For that reason, I would only make the switch if there is a profound reason for the switch; for example, your spouse [if you have one] just found out his/her job won't allow old number 1 to work. From a strictly moral perspective, withholding strong life stressors, I think you know the right answer to this problem... best of luck! It'll all work out.

 

[npost]

Thanks guys for your input. So lets say I did make a switch and ended up matching at my new no. 1 (let's hope), should I contact the other program and explain myself? The reason I am switching is not due to the program but mostly due to the cost of living, job market/pay for my significant other and thinking in 5 yrs from now we'll likely have a family etc etc. I obviously didn't think it through all the way initially hence this dilemma.

 

[cmedradonc2be]

I actually have the same dilemma as you npost but due to a family emergency so I went to speak to my academic advisor (which is also my school's derm program director) about the situation. She told me that many students whom she has advised throughout the years have changed their rank list a week before lists are due and way after they have sent their "#1" emails. She told me that programs know that and honestly don't base their own rank lists purely on a student's interest in a program, especially in the most competitive fields. So basically not to worry too much about the situation and ultimately rank programs as best fits my needs at this time. She did recommend sending an email a few weeks after match if I matched in a program higher ranked than my initial #1 stating that I didn't mean to mislead the program with my initial email expressing interest in the program but ultimately changed my rank list for xyz reason. She told me that most reasonable program directors would understand and it would not pose a problem in the future.

 

[npost]

Thank you cmedradonc2be! Very helpful advise, appreciate you sharing with us. I feel like most people I met on the trail are excellent candidates so the programs for the most part have little to loose.
Best of luck on the match everyone!!

 

[ramsesthenice]

She did recommend sending an email a few weeks after match if I matched in a program higher ranked than my initial #1 stating that I didn't mean to mislead the program with my initial email expressing interest in the program but ultimately changed my rank list for xyz reason. She told me that most reasonable program directors would understand and it would not pose a problem in the future.

I agree that most are reasonable and I don't think it would be a huge deal for you to make a switch. Im not sure sending an email after match really is a good idea or needed. Its a little disingenuous. If you really had a compelling reason to change your rank list then why not say it before match day? Because you don't want to potentially lower your ranking at that program of course (in case you don't get your new number 1).

This thread makes me think too many people are informing programs about their intention to rank. I don't think it really makes a difference to the programs in terms of helping you (at least at most places) rank higher but it does kinda make you stick with your choice when you don't need to be. Unless you know for exceptional reasons you want to be somewhere you really don't need to send a #1 email unless its at a place that traditionally values that (the residents will usually tell you thats important when your there).