Many W's/repeats: should I even try? c3.58/s3.61

[Parallax]

I have had a change of heart and would like advice on whether pursuing medicine with my background is unreasonable. What is the next step I should take? (Or should I run back where I came from, quickly, screaming?)

The stats:
cGPA:3.58 (DO: 3.8)
sGPA:3.61 (DO: 3.7)

Research: 1 year bench science (oncology; with scholarship), 2 months infectious disease mapping, 1 semester health disparities research
Presentation/"Publication" (all as first author): 2 independent projects, 2 poster presentations, abstract accepted for presentation at international conference
Teaching: 1 year TA (biostatistics, environmental public health); 1 summer curriculum development/teaching science to underpriveledged kids; 6 years private tutoring (English, music, anatomy, other)
Other memberships/leadership: President of public health club (fundraising, etc.), youth ambassador for international cooperation group (met with ambassadors/congressmen, etc.), honors/scholars program membership (for 4y of CC), student ambassador/orientation leader, recruitment coordinator for my academic program (university)
Other: On professional music recordings/TV broadcast (high school), full ride merit scholarship my senior year (university)

Currently: Working as a research assistant at NIH (functionally part clinical research, part shadowing)
Current EC's: Emergency preparedness/response team instructor, getting training in health disparities research/clinical research management, art/graphic design for fun

The whining:
I took 1 year off after high school to pursue a professional career in music (which failed due to health). I switched gears to anthropology then microbiology, spending 4 years in a CC (full-time courseload all semesters) accruing 100+ credit hours (wan't mature enough, health issues, self-pitying excuses, no direction, etc.). This includes all medical prerequisite courses (some C/D/F grades, multiple math/chemistry/physics repeats, 10 W's spread out over time with half in non-bio prereqs, all non-bio prereqs repeated for A/B grades). Metaphorically kept trying to use a hammer instead of stepping back and grabbing a screwdriver; had my midlife crisis 20 years too early. "AMCAS" GPA result: sGPA 3.5, cGPA 3.3

Grew up, transferred to my state university (B.S. Public Health) and have 2 full-time years of solid A/A+ coursework, graduating as valedictorian of my program (academic awards, scholarships, etc.). "Upper-level type courses": exercise physiology (cardiorespiratory/muscle physiology), pathophysiology, biostatistics, epidemiology. "AMCAS" GPA: 4.0

Concerns:
W's/repeats: There are a ridiculous number and are in my prereqs more than once. Can a postbac/SMP really remedy this? Would an awesome personal statement be enough? Could I take a couple upper level bio classes and be okay? Should I join the circus?
GPA: Could go up 0.1-0.2 with more grade replacement, but the 160+ credits won't let it move too much.
No substantive patient contact: Over the next year I would serve as a scribe, volunteer, etc. (get close enough to smell patients). I have some shadowing (40h), but not enough healthcare experience.
MCAT: Haven't taken it, so I don't know how I will do. Would doing well be enough to overcome my CC performance? What kind of reasonable/unreasonable numbers are we talking about?
Time/Debt: Isn't everyone?

Trajectory:
I would be applying next year to DO/MD; backup plan is my original (PhD Epidemiology). Ultimately I would like to work in public health or clinical research. I have no illusions about income or prestige; I just want to be qualified/credentialed/competent enough to work on population health and have some professional freedom (as much as is possible these days).

I am in clinical research now and really love it; this is where I want to be. I like the thought of both being able teach/research and see patients in some capacity. I have a lot of medical interests. Looking practically at what I see around me, I need to be a physician to do the kind of work I would like to do. I can see myself in the public sector for my entire career; I am considering USPHS.

I went about courses in a really, really stupid way the first time around.I don't know if DO schools are forgiving enough of this many repeats/bad grades, despite the upward trend.

Am I crazy or should I spend the next year preparing to apply?

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[bollywoodlover]

How many W's? I have a similar GPA as you and 25-28 MCAT score. I also have 4 W's. Two of them were in prereqs. As long as you retook them and did well, I think it's fine. I've gotten 1 DO interview and 2 MD interviews out of the 8 schools I applied to. I have yet to be asked about my Ws in any of my interviewers, so I'm sure it depends on the school if they will actually take the time to look that closely or inquire about it. I'm sure most schools just look at your overall GPA...unless you have like 10+ Ws. With a good MCAT score and awesome essays and LORs, I think you have a good shot of getting in without doing an SMP. I'd apply to a good mix of both DO and lower-mid tier MD schools though.

 

[ValentineLissar]

I think you have a good chance of getting in somewhere, especially DO schools provided that you 1) get an excellent MCAT score (30+) and 2) continue to achieve excellent grades, and 3) explain the situation behind the W's and the bad CC experience in your PS. You have a non-traditional background and you need to talk about how these experiences were due to your immaturity and then address how you've changed since then, and explain and emphasize how this "new" you is the one that will stay. Furthermore you need to talk about what moved you towards medicine. I think you also have a strong set of EC's, which should help your case with proving your capabilities. Also, I would recommend getting FANTASTIC letters of rec from science faculty and others who can attest to your work ethic and professionalism.

For MD schools, I'm not sure about needing to do a SMP because your GPA seems pretty decent.

To address your other concerns:
Definitely get clinical experiences. The DO schools will even reject/wait-list students who have fantastic scores but no patient contact. Volunteering, shadowing (especially a DO if your going that route), working in a hospital are all possibilities

Maybe consider getting involved in a non-clinical community service activity like mentoring disadvantaged children, helping out at a homeless shelter, or tutoring your peers.

As for the debt, this entire process of applying for medical schools is expensive. It takes a lot of your time and money, but I think that the end result is worth it.

I think you're definitely on the right track and good luck!

 

[TriagePreMed]

With all the C/D/F you claim to have, I'm surprised your AMCAS GPA is as high as it is.If you're willing to go into a DO school, I wouldn't lose any sleep. They won't care if you have 10 Ws with a 3.8 and if your MCAT is >25.

 

[Parallax]

With all the C/D/F you claim to have, I'm surprised your AMCAS GPA is as high as it is.If you're willing to go into a DO school, I wouldn't lose any sleep. They won't care if you have 10 Ws with a 3.8 and if your MCAT is >25.

Thanks for the input. I have 160+ credits, which helps with the GPA. Are DO schools really that forgiving of multiple W's (10 W's) or does it start to look fishy without more upper levels? Just trying preempt the adcomms....

 

[Goro]

Everything looks fine so I think you should quit fussing and start applying ASAPwhen the cycle starts anew in 2013.

If anything, the thing I'd like to see in your ECs is lots of shadowing and patient contact experience. I see a LOT of research, and so be prepared for the inevitable "why not PhD?" questions at interviews. Basically, I'd like to know you like spending your time around sick and injured people. You do need to know what doctors DO, too.

I have had a change of heart and would like advice on whether pursuing medicine with my background is unreasonable. What is the next step I should take? (Or should I run back where I came from, quickly, screaming?)

The stats:
cGPA:3.58 (DO: 3.8)
sGPA:3.61 (DO: 3.7)

Research: 1 year bench science (oncology; with scholarship), 2 months infectious disease mapping, 1 semester health disparities research
Presentation/"Publication" (all as first author): 2 independent projects, 2 poster presentations, abstract accepted for presentation at international conference
Teaching: 1 year TA (biostatistics, environmental public health); 1 summer curriculum development/teaching science to underpriveledged kids; 6 years private tutoring (English, music, anatomy, other)
Other memberships/leadership: President of public health club (fundraising, etc.), youth ambassador for international cooperation group (met with ambassadors/congressmen, etc.), honors/scholars program membership (for 4y of CC), student ambassador/orientation leader, recruitment coordinator for my academic program (university)
Other: On professional music recordings/TV broadcast (high school), full ride merit scholarship my senior year (university)

Currently: Working as a research assistant at NIH (functionally part clinical research, part shadowing)
Current EC's: Emergency preparedness/response team instructor, getting training in health disparities research/clinical research management, art/graphic design for fun

The whining:
I took 1 year off after high school to pursue a professional career in music (which failed due to health). I switched gears to anthropology then microbiology, spending 4 years in a CC (full-time courseload all semesters) accruing 100+ credit hours (wan't mature enough, health issues, self-pitying excuses, no direction, etc.). This includes all medical prerequisite courses (some C/D/F grades, multiple math/chemistry/physics repeats, 10 W's spread out over time with half in non-bio prereqs, all non-bio prereqs repeated for A/B grades). Metaphorically kept trying to use a hammer instead of stepping back and grabbing a screwdriver; had my midlife crisis 20 years too early. "AMCAS" GPA result: sGPA 3.5, cGPA 3.3

Grew up, transferred to my state university (B.S. Public Health) and have 2 full-time years of solid A/A+ coursework, graduating as valedictorian of my program (academic awards, scholarships, etc.). "Upper-level type courses": exercise physiology (cardiorespiratory/muscle physiology), pathophysiology, biostatistics, epidemiology. "AMCAS" GPA: 4.0

Concerns:
W's/repeats: There are a ridiculous number and are in my prereqs more than once. Can a postbac/SMP really remedy this? Would an awesome personal statement be enough? Could I take a couple upper level bio classes and be okay? Should I join the circus?
GPA: Could go up 0.1-0.2 with more grade replacement, but the 160+ credits won't let it move too much.
No substantive patient contact: Over the next year I would serve as a scribe, volunteer, etc. (get close enough to smell patients). I have some shadowing (40h), but not enough healthcare experience.
MCAT: Haven't taken it, so I don't know how I will do. Would doing well be enough to overcome my CC performance? What kind of reasonable/unreasonable numbers are we talking about?
Time/Debt: Isn't everyone?

Trajectory:
I would be applying next year to DO/MD; backup plan is my original (PhD Epidemiology). Ultimately I would like to work in public health or clinical research. I have no illusions about income or prestige; I just want to be qualified/credentialed/competent enough to work on population health and have some professional freedom (as much as is possible these days).

I am in clinical research now and really love it; this is where I want to be. I like the thought of both being able teach/research and see patients in some capacity. I have a lot of medical interests. Looking practically at what I see around me, I need to be a physician to do the kind of work I would like to do. I can see myself in the public sector for my entire career; I am considering USPHS.

I went about courses in a really, really stupid way the first time around.I don't know if DO schools are forgiving enough of this many repeats/bad grades, despite the upward trend.

Am I crazy or should I spend the next year preparing to apply?

 

[Parallax]

Everything looks fine so I think you should quit fussing and start applying ASAPwhen the cycle starts anew in 2013.

If anything, the thing I'd like to see in your ECs is lots of shadowing and patient contact experience. I see a LOT of research, and so be prepared for the inevitable "why not PhD?" questions at interviews. Basically, I'd like to know you like spending your time around sick and injured people. You do need to know what doctors DO, too.

Thanks for the advice; this is really reassuring! Is there a ballpark time-wise for patient experience that I should aim for, or would 1 day/week in a patient contact scenario be okay over the next ~8 months? (Quality over quantity, I know)

Do I have a decent shot applying to both MD/DO or just DO (my local/state schools are all MD)?

 

[Dires]

Thanks for the advice; this is really reassuring! Is there a ballpark time-wise for patient experience that I should aim for, or would 1 day/week in a patient contact scenario be okay over the next ~8 months? (Quality over quantity, I know)

Do I have a decent shot applying to both MD/DO or just DO (my local/state schools are all MD)?

With a 30+ mcat you'll be competitive for MD...

 

[TriagePreMed]

Thanks for the input. I have 160+ credits, which helps with the GPA. Are DO schools really that forgiving of multiple W's (10 W's) or does it start to look fishy without more upper levels? Just trying preempt the adcomms....

Nobody can predict what they will ask you, but do I think it's forgivable to have 10 W's (half in non-science) after you've retaken your bad grades and turned everything around? Absolutely.

 

[ValentineLissar]

Having clinical experiences over the course of 8 months is great! Aim for volunteer activities that are weekly commitments and allow sufficient time for you to do something productive and gives you patient contact. Therefore something like 4-6 hour shifts once a week. Mobile clinics are good too except there not exactly weekly commitments but you are helping underprivileged populations.

 

[phant0m0o0o]

I don't know about all schools but the ones I have talked to don't even mention my string of 12+ W's. Some of them don't even mention my 2 semesters of straight F's. Kinda hit or miss but you definitely have a chance at MD especially with a decent MCAT.

 

[Parallax]

Looks like the consensus is to work on the MCAT and patient contact and apply as-is. Any other takers? I appreciate the advice so far.

 

[Parallax]

Does anyone have recommendations for MD schools that might be more forgiving of the repeats/multiple W's? Or do most of them want you to do an SMP regardless?

 

[occams_razor]

your GPA is fine (your sGPA is actually average for matriculants). I don't think you need an SMP. just explain the W's if you get asked about them. focus on the MCAT