Marijuana & Employment

[Erowid]

Hi everybody -

I have questions regarding being drug tested for marijuana as an attending. Given the nature of drug testing and employment I'm reluctant to ask questions in person.

Having been lucky enough to smoke recreationally during med school and residency, I'm preparing for the likelihood of being required to give it up.

Some questions I have are:

Do hospitals require it for credentialing? Do states require it for licensing?
What are the typical consequences of a positive urine drug screen?
Do hospitals typically drug test their physicians at random?​

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[bravotwozero]

It's not random. It is required by all hospitals for credentialling. You fail that drug test, you're screwed for life and you're career is effectively over. So get off the whacky tobaccky asap.


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[BoardingDoc]

It's not random. It is required by all hospitals for credentialling. You fail that drug test, you're screwed for life and you're career is effectively over. So get off the whacky tobaccky asap.


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This is not true in all states.

 

[bravotwozero]

there's going to be a huge paper trail that you will find increasingly more difficult to escape from as time goes on. You'll be asked on all credentialling applications, have you ever had your credentialling denied, application for a state license denied? which can will inevitably happen if you fail the drug test. Your choices will be to lie and risk getting caught, or tell the truth and get denied yet again. Not worth it. Can't do illicit drugs in this profession, the stakes are too high.


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[Arcan57]

My last hospital didn't require drug testing, I'm getting credentialed at one in the same city that does. At the moment, medicine is not 420 friendly. Act accordingly.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

It's not random. It is required by all hospitals for credentialling. You fail that drug test, you're screwed for life and you're career is effectively over. So get off the whacky tobaccky asap.


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I'm getting credentialed at 7 hospitals and 2 states, have not been asked for drug testing yet. Maybe regional or state dependent.

 

[WilcoWorld]

It varies from site to site, but @bravotwozero is correct that if you fail a test in 2017, it will follow you for your whole career. Given how much work you've put in to get here it's really just silly not to at the very least lay off until you're on staff.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I've only had one hospital (in SD) require a drug test. The other hospitals > 10 I have worked have not required it.

 

[Petypet]

Why risk years of education just to get high. Get a job then figure out how you want to live your life.

 

[Jlaw]

Marijuana is legal in some states, it is illegal at the federal level, which is where your DEA license resides. That is what you risk losing with a positive test and losing your DEA license will end your career as a physician.

Majority of places test new hires. I was tested yearly in medical school so they could give the results to our affiliate hospitals, I was tested for a couple of my audition rotations, and I was tested when I started residency...so yeah I would say the chance of you getting tested is high when starting a job. Once you start it depends on you institution, they are either testing everyone, in which case you will know, or they are testing people they think are impaired..i.e. you show up to work high/drunk or act like burnout.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

Marijuana is legal in some states, it is illegal at the federal level, which is where your DEA license resides. That is what you risk losing with a positive test and losing your DEA license will end your career as a physician.

Majority of places test new hires. I was tested yearly in medical school so they could give the results to our affiliate hospitals, I was tested for a couple of my audition rotations, and I was tested when I started residency...so yeah I would say the chance of you getting tested is high when starting a job. Once you start it depends on you institution, they are either testing everyone, in which case you will know, or they are testing people they think are impaired..i.e. you show up to work high/drunk or act like burnout.

I've been tested no times by a medical school or residency.

 

[HopefulSlav]

Keep in mind who is our AG. In the words of Walter White: tread lightly.

 

[FutureDOdr]

I would add that regardless of state or federal laws, you can and will be disqualified from employment if you test positive. Legality of the substance and its use is generally irrelevant in employment matters

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

Got credentialed at two places during residency for moonlighting - neither tested.

Being credentialed at two places for attendinghood - 1 tested during credentialing, the other didn't (but maybe during orientation they will, who knows).

Personally, I don't use marijuana. If I were you, I would cease use immediately as I'm sure you know chronic use is detectable for a longer window of time.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

The only employer I've ever had that drug tested me was the US Military.

Recreational use isn't legal in my state yet, but I think the important thing is to know the employer's policy and the medical staff bylaws. If they prohibit drug use, and drug use is important to you, then find somewhere else to work.

 

[deleted109597]

Agree. To those who think it's mandatory, realize that very few places actually test for it. The military certainly does, and some other employers might. But I've never seen random spot checks (except, again, the military), and of the 10 places I've worked, exactly 1 required it, and it was during pre-employment screening.
But yes, you might ask other people who work there, and find out before you get checked. And don't fail the test, it will haunt you.

 

[UKEMdoc]

Whatever you do, please don't start using the new synthetic cannibinoids in an attempt to get past the test. They are nasty, unpredictable chemicals that F*** you up big time - you might be planning a night out at a reggae bar but spend 8 hours violent and hallucinating. In the UK I've seen more deaths from the new "legal highs" than anything else except heroin.

If marijuana is that important to you I'd suggest asking why. What is it that marijuana gives you that you can't get another way? What are the priorities in your life and how can you keep them balanced?

 

[EMDOC17]

First I think MJ should be treated like alcohol but that is not the case. In the medical community marijuana is a deal breaker and career ender. I do not understand how physicians would risk their licenses to smoke a joint. I have never been drug tested but have no desire to risk 11 years of education to smoke a joint. I also think its funny that a friend of mine in college was drug tested when they got a job at hollister but I have not at any point in my medical career.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Marijuana is less dangerous than alcohol that being said...If you really want to smoke don't do it for a few months since you have to willingly apply to a place to get credentialed. After you get credentialed its most likely safe to use occasionally if it's important to you. However, you shouldn't work at a place that "randomly" does urine drug screenings. If you do, refuse to take it and get fired.

Why you ask? A positive drug screen is reportable to the medical board. I know a physician who just used it recreationally in Colorado but due to political issues one of his fellow "colleagues" told the higher ups that he was "impaired" (never tell anyone you smoke even if you live in a legal state) and they did a drug screen he took it and came back positive.

He still has his job but he has to do five years of rehab, subjected to random urine drug screens. He has to go to weekly AA meetings and has to do a randomized breathalyzer test weekly. He can't so much as go to a bar or drink. This is just for a uds and no patient related complaint. Don't be put in his position and now he is in the catagory of "impaired" physician for the rest of his life. If you use just don't take a uds even if it means that you'll lose the job.

 

[Birdstrike]

Hi everybody -

I have questions regarding being drug tested for marijuana as an attending. Given the nature of drug testing and employment I'm reluctant to ask questions in person.

Having been lucky enough to smoke recreationally during med school and residency, I'm preparing for the likelihood of being required to give it up.

Some questions I have are:

Do hospitals require it for credentialing? Do states require it for licensing?
What are the typical consequences of a positive urine drug screen?
Do hospitals typically drug test their physicians at random?​

I don't use any illegal drugs. That being said, I've not been drug tested a single time by anyone for employment or licensure, not even once, since residency. It may be different elsewhere.

Most contracts I've signed have had some clause saying they can drug test at will, and if you decline, you can be terminated. In practice, I've never been asked and the only time I've heard of it being demanded of any doc, was with obvious signs of impairment.

FYI: Chronic weed use can show up in a urine drug screen, depending on the testing method, for 1 month, unlike most other drugs which wash out n 24-48 hrs. Another exception, Valium: 7-14 days.

Best policy: Get clean & stay clean, and you don't have to worry.


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[Restart13]

I know a lot of people that smoked during medical school and plan to in residency. I think in moderation there is clearly no problem; some of the smartest people in our class smoked daily. I was just tested for a pre-employment for residency, which I think is standard across most if not all residencies these days. Otherwise, I don't think you will be tested again unless there is a reason for people to be suspicious of impairment at work. If I knew I had to apply for a job in the near future, just take 1-2 months off for a pre-employment screen to be safe. It sucks, but it's not worth the risk.

 

[Gither]

At my residency, if you get a needle stick for you to be covered for testing and treatment a UDS is required at the same day of testing. Makes MJ use difficult as you can get poked at any time during any shift.


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[Throwaway_name_EM]

Does anybody have any experience with leniency to those that use for an established and documented medical condition with a recommendation from a licensed physician? I practice in a state where it is legal to use for medical purposes. I understand that federally it is still legal, however physician licensing is a state issue, and in the states where marijuana is legalized for medical use I'd imagine there is some precedent.

Any stories, anecdotes, or experience appreciated

 

[Jlaw]

I've been tested no times by a medical school or residency.

Yeah take it as you will, I've been at places that test, a lot, both in the midwest and northeast. With marijuana becoming more socially acceptable I wouldn't be surprised if testing is reduced to avoid losing otherwise great doctors, but I would not count on that either. One day it will be legal at the state and federal level though. For the record I don't smoke marijuana, I enjoy wine, so having to do all these pee tests is very aggravating.

 

[Jlaw]

Does anybody have any experience with leniency to those that use for an established and documented medical condition with a recommendation from a licensed physician? I practice in a state where it is legal to use for medical purposes. I understand that federally it is still legal, however physician licensing is a state issue, and in the states where marijuana is legalized for medical use I'd imagine there is some precedent.

Any stories, anecdotes, or experience appreciated

Yes you are state licensed but your DEA license, which is what really makes you a physician is federal. Thus, run afoul of the feds and you lose your DEA license and without being able to prescribe you will lose your job. At the moment the feds are the precedent and they say no.

 

[doc0987]

I live in a state where marijuana has been legalized for recreational use and smoke pot, not a chronic user, but will smoke 1/8th every now and then over a few days. I was wondering, if the credentialing process has not asked me for a drug test and I should be credentialed anytime soon, I probably won't get a drug test, right?

 

[thegenius]

Hi everybody -

I have questions regarding being drug tested for marijuana as an attending. Given the nature of drug testing and employment I'm reluctant to ask questions in person.

Having been lucky enough to smoke recreationally during med school and residency, I'm preparing for the likelihood of being required to give it up.

Some questions I have are:

Do hospitals require it for credentialing? Do states require it for licensing?
What are the typical consequences of a positive urine drug screen?
Do hospitals typically drug test their physicians at random?​

I work in CA, although credentialed prior to it becoming legal. I work for multiple employers. One drug tested me, the other didn’t.

Have not been subsequently tested after employment.

I would get used to the idea of not usin it regularly. Imagine the 1% and they catch you, your life as a doctor could end. Now if you do it once or twice a year, like on vacation, probably not a big deal.

 

[miacomet]

All my jobs, as well as my residency, required a drug test. The hospital system for my residency program stopped tested for THC because they realized they wouldn't have any employees.

If you are employed and sustain a worker's comp-eligible injury, many employers will require a drug test.

 

[deleted547339]

I live in a state where marijuana has been legalized for recreational use and smoke pot, not a chronic user, but will smoke 1/8th every now and then over a few days. I was wondering, if the credentialing process has not asked me for a drug test and I should be credentialed anytime soon, I probably won't get a drug test, right?

Dude, just give up the ganja. Your not 19 anymore. As a physician in the US, you’re sitting on a goldmine. Why risk it to get a buzz? Sure, you probably won’t get busted, and you probably won’t get HIV if you go have unprotected sex with a hooker once or twice a year. Not getting an EKG on the young guy with squirrelly chest pain probably won’t burn you once or twice a year. Doesn’t mean you should risk it.

With the way politics are going, it will almost certainly be a non-issue in 10 years. Just put it in the freezer and wait. Or stay sober, save a big hunk of your income and live frugally then retire at 40 and smoke all the bud you want.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Dude, just give up the ganja. Your not 19 anymore. As a physician in the US, you’re sitting on a goldmine. Why risk it to get a buzz? Sure, you probably won’t get busted, and you probably won’t get HIV if you go have unprotected sex with a hooker once or twice a year. Not getting an EKG on the young guy with squirrelly chest pain probably won’t burn you once or twice a year. Doesn’t mean you should risk it.

With the way politics are going, it will almost certainly be a non-issue in 10 years. Just put it in the freezer and wait. Or stay sober, save a big hunk of your income and live frugally then retire at 40 and smoke all the bud you want.

I want to like this fifty times.

This seems topic comes up several times a year with the exact same result.

 

[Groove]

Ditto what the others have said. Man, after all the work it took me to get here, and with the kind of salary I make, I'd have to be insane to smoke pot or get a DUI, etc.. Not a chance in hell I'm putting my career at risk. I don't care if your state legalizes marijuana or not, once you get that + drug test, chances are you are hosed. It's not worth it.

 

[NITRAS]

My hospital system tests all employees for both THC and nicotine.

Taking an illicit drug, even in a “safe” manner, at the potential expense of screwing up your livelihood is the definition of stupid and abuse.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

I live in a state where marijuana has been legalized for recreational use and smoke pot, not a chronic user, but will smoke 1/8th every now and then over a few days. I was wondering, if the credentialing process has not asked me for a drug test and I should be credentialed anytime soon, I probably won't get a drug test, right?

Stop smoking prior to the credentialing process. You don't want to risk it.

If you want to smoke after you are credentialed then do so but don't ever take any random drug or urine test. Not worth it to have that on your record. If they threaten to fire you then let them fire you but never allow yourself to be drug tested by an employer after you have been credentialed.

 

[GeneralVeers]

I've never heard of random drug testing for physicians. I don't think I would work at any site where on shift they could pull me aside and say "pee into this cup right now".

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I've never heard of random drug testing for physicians. I don't think I would work at any site where on shift they could pull me aside and say "pee into this cup right now".

I've never worked anywhere that didn't have that as one of their HR policies. That said, in 8 years I've never seen or heard of a truly random one being done.

 

[bravotwozero]

Dude, just give up the ganja. Your not 19 anymore. As a physician in the US, you’re sitting on a goldmine. Why risk it to get a buzz? Sure, you probably won’t get busted, and you probably won’t get HIV if you go have unprotected sex with a hooker once or twice a year. Not getting an EKG on the young guy with squirrelly chest pain probably won’t burn you once or twice a year. Doesn’t mean you should risk it.

With the way politics are going, it will almost certainly be a non-issue in 10 years. Just put it in the freezer and wait. Or stay sober, save a big hunk of your income and live frugally then retire at 40 and smoke all the bud you want.

Thank you for being the voice of reason. Apparently this just makes too much sense to be true for some people...


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[deleted103644]

Agree. To those who think it's mandatory, realize that very few places actually test for it. The military certainly does, and some other employers might. But I've never seen random spot checks (except, again, the military), and of the 10 places I've worked, exactly 1 required it, and it was during pre-employment screening.
But yes, you might ask other people who work there, and find out before you get checked. And don't fail the test, it will haunt you.

This is very state dependent, and while some hospitals apparently don’t check physicians (news to me), it has been part of the new hire/new rotating student process at every hospital I have been to so the above is either not true or very location dependent.

The short answer is that drugs aren’t worth the potential risk to your career, particularly anything that will stay in your system for months.

Hospitals are still apparently ok with functioning alcoholics though, so drinks?

(Not my first pic meme, but couldn’t find a linkable version of the other one. Damn you Tenor. Drinks Ragnarok GIF - Drinks Ragnarok Valkyrie - Discover & Share GIFs )

 

[Birdstrike]

It's not random. It is required by all hospitals for credentialling. You fail that drug test, you're screwed for life and you're career is effectively over. So get off the whacky tobaccky asap.


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I've never been drug tested for any job or license I've had, residency, attending or fellowship. And that's across 3 states. I got drug tested in one of my jobs before medicine, however.

 

[Rendar5]

I went to medical school and residency in NY and worked at multiple sites in FL as an attending. Have yet to be drug screened as part of a preemployment process.