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Marking half white, half URM. advantage?

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MedPR

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"Ohhh noooo not another URM thread"... sorry guys ;)

So I searched and found many threads regarding URM, people who think they're URM and aren't, and even people who are half URM but only marked that race on their application. I have a specific question about marking down both races and am looking to get an answer from people who have experienced it.

I am half Italian and half Puerto Rican. Culturally, I believe I fit with both so I find it to be disingenuous to just put one for the sake of getting an advantage, so I plan on checking both white and Hispanic on my application.

My question is, will this give me any advantage at all in the game? Will I be considered URM for marking both, like the drop in a bucket rule, or will I automatically just get grouped into ORM? Has anyone checked both and felt like they got an advantage due to it?

When I apply I will be a below average applicant. I will be happily applying DO, but wanted to gauge if it'll be worth the money to try MD as well. Potentially wasting thousands of dollars is literally the only reason I ask. Thanks for the responses!

Mark PR only and be done with it. It's not disingenuous.

Edit: I'm part Asian and part URM (I have an Asian last name) and I marked only URM.
 
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medemic

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Being a underrepresented minority is not and should not be a means to an end. If you feel your experiences in life being a part of that ethnic community has had a significant impact and has shaped your life in a certain way that is underrepresented in healthcare, then, yes, mark it. Otherwise, it objectifies and ruins the purpose of what I personally think is a great policy for American healthcare. My two cents.
 
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"Ohhh noooo not another URM thread"... sorry guys ;)

So I searched and found many threads regarding URM, people who think they're URM and aren't, and even people who are half URM but only marked that race on their application. I have a specific question about marking down both races and am looking to get an answer from people who have experienced it.

I am half Italian and half Puerto Rican. Culturally, I believe I fit with both so I find it to be disingenuous to just put one for the sake of getting an advantage, so I plan on checking both white and Hispanic on my application.

My question is, will this give me any advantage at all in the game? Will I be considered URM for marking both, like the drop in a bucket rule, or will I automatically just get grouped into ORM? Has anyone checked both and felt like they got an advantage due to it?

When I apply I will be a below average applicant. I will be happily applying DO, but wanted to gauge if it'll be worth the money to try MD as well. Potentially wasting thousands of dollars is literally the only reason I ask. Thanks for the responses!

I'd worry more about that, because simply being URM doesn't get people in.
 

LizzyM

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Mark whatever you would mark on US census documents. Whatever you put on any section of the application will be taken into consideration unless you are so low quantitatively (gpa/MCAT) or geographically (OOS at a school that is strongly in-state) that you are screened out.
 

cinamin

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Mark both. You don't want to misrepresent yourself in any way. The adcoms/schools will decide which category you fit into, likely based on their 'needs' so they would probably categorize you as PR if accepted and they roll out their ethnic/race %.. I have always wondered about that too, since those stats add up to 99-100% and clearly there are many people who fit into more than one category.
 

dwills

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Just mark Hispanic/Latino and leave race blank.

You are not being disingenuous. Just play the game. Haters gonna hate :laugh:
 

Arbor Vitae

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"Ohhh noooo not another URM thread"... sorry guys ;)

So I searched and found many threads regarding URM, people who think they're URM and aren't, and even people who are half URM but only marked that race on their application. I have a specific question about marking down both races and am looking to get an answer from people who have experienced it.

I am half Italian and half Puerto Rican. Culturally, I believe I fit with both so I find it to be disingenuous to just put one for the sake of getting an advantage, so I plan on checking both white and Hispanic on my application.

My question is, will this give me any advantage at all in the game? Will I be considered URM for marking both, like the drop in a bucket rule, or will I automatically just get grouped into ORM? Has anyone checked both and felt like they got an advantage due to it?

When I apply I will be a below average applicant. I will be happily applying DO, but wanted to gauge if it'll be worth the money to try MD as well. Potentially wasting thousands of dollars is literally the only reason I ask. Thanks for the responses!

Just mark both. Why not be honest? It might give you an advantage, but at least mark your ORM race so if you look ORM then they won't hold it against you. I'm half and half as well, and I just mark both and nobody at my interviews has ever once brought up race. I don't even know the ORM side of my family anyway as I was raised by the URM side. I think it does give you an advantage because you are sort of best of both worlds for them. You can relate to multiple cultures naturally.

Also, in regards to your chances, a high MCAT and great ECs can make up for alot.
 

tpsreport

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Mark PR only and be done with it. It's not disingenuous.

Edit: I'm part Asian and part URM (I have an Asian last name) and I marked only URM.

lol MedPR if you do the math, the fact that you're part Asian and part URM should cancel each other out and leave you with...you're white!!

Bet you didn't know that about yourself :laugh:

Seriously though, if I were in your situation I would've done the same.
 
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Lafakads

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lol MedPR if you do the math, the fact that you're part Asian and part URM should cancel each other out and leave you with...you're white!!

Bet you didn't know that about yourself :laugh:

Seriously though, if I were in your situation I would've done the same.

Im half hispanic half white. Just the part of town I grew up in was basically all hispanic, I know the culture and seen all that. So I put hispanic.
 

Arbor Vitae

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Im half hispanic half white. Just the part of town I grew up in was basically all hispanic, I know the culture and seen all that. So I put hispanic.

Why wouldn't you also put white? I didn't hide anything and I feel like being multiracial is a good thing.
 

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Being a underrepresented minority is not and should not be a means to an end. If you feel your experiences in life being a part of that ethnic community has had a significant impact and has shaped your life in a certain way that is underrepresented in healthcare, then, yes, mark it. Otherwise, it objectifies and ruins the purpose of what I personally think is a great policy for American healthcare. My two cents.

Well you see, the medical school application process has these magical powers that science simply can't explain... It brings out all of these things in applicants that they never thought existed! Like it brings out this never before seen side of sheer altruism, and in the case of URM, someone's long lost cultural roots that they never found important before until now!
 

MedPR

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haha really, you think? I mean I've been told I could pass as either or, but I think I look mostly like a tan white guy lol. I've played with the idea a lot and am just torn on what to do. did you get judged at interviews? could they ask you questions like "if you're half and half why did you select one race?" I just have these nightmares envisioned in my head of what could happen haha.

It shouldn't come up at interviews. Most people know better than to question someone about their ethnicity/race in the selection process. It can easily be misconstrued as discrimination.
 

LizzyM

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Ismet

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Someone needs to make a URM sticky. :bang:

Your race is "White."
Your ethnicity is "Hispanic."

You can mark both. I am 100% Hispanic, and I marked both, because my race is white and my ethnicity is Cuban. It doesn't matter if you're half Italian.
 
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LizzyM

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Someone needs to make a URM sticky. :bang:

Your race is "White."
Your ethnicity is "Hispanic."

You can mark both. I am 100% Hispanic, and I marked both, because my race is white and my ethnicity is Cuban. It doesn't matter if you're half Italian.

actually OP is "white, non-Hispanic" and "white, Hispanic".
 

Ismet

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actually OP is "white, non-Hispanic" and "white, Hispanic".

True. I guess I was more focused on OP not putting "white" down at all, as if white automatically = Caucasian
 

Camy99

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Just mark both. Why not be honest? It might give you an advantage, but at least mark your ORM race so if you look ORM then they won't hold it against you. I'm half and half as well, and I just mark both and nobody at my interviews has ever once brought up race. I don't even know the ORM side of my family anyway as I was raised by the URM side. I think it does give you an advantage because you are sort of best of both worlds for them. You can relate to multiple cultures naturally.

Also, in regards to your chances, a high MCAT and great ECs can make up for alot.

This. :thumbup:
My bf's half Mexican half white but was raised and relates mostly to his Mexican side--but looks 99% white. If he were premed, on his app you would see a lot of involvement in the Latino community. That, to me, should mean more than whether he checked the box or not.
Someone can be 100% URM but not give a sht about their community. This is the whole point of URM in the first place (believe it or not).
 

cinamin

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I won't be auto screened out at the schools I'll be applying to, I won't be that low, but still low. Seem to be a lot of mixed opinions on this. I guess when the time comes I will have to decide. I could see being mixed as a positive, but could also see many schools just categorizing you with the ORM side automatically regardless of mix.

You wouldn't be categorized as ORM... you mean Non-URM btw. But you are part URM, therefore, in the URM category. I would put both because there is an option to check off more than 1 box. Full disclosure is best IMO. to each his own :)
 

Lafakads

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How did this go for you? Do you look more white or Hispanic? did anyone question or judge you at interviews?

well im cuban, but most people that seem assume I look more european in a sense. I only had 2 interviews so far but one guy talked a bit about my heritage. At the other view the dude asked me if I spoke spanish and about my moms heritage (came from cuba during 1980).

now one really judged me really.
 

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Interesting insights. Think I'm just going to be completely honest and whatever happens happens. Though I've got plenty of time to figure it out before I apply.

To all the comments about "finding lost roots and applying URM" (Planes2doc), I've always known what I was, and ive done my share in my community. I find it offensive that just because some pre-Meds try to do this for an advantage that you generalize everyone this way. Luckily, there aren't many things you can do to truly offend me on the Internet haha ;)

Wow I seem to be on a roll lately of offending people! Sorry, I wasn't directing this at you! If you search a lot of the older URM threads, you'll see what I'm talking about. I'm just talking about threads in general, and not you in particular!
 
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Lafakads

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So at both interviews you've had asked you about your race? that's interesting. I think I'd have lots to talk about in that regard and it could be a good question, if I got it.

yea. I was on the border which one to put. Then I realized I am hispanic since I ate black beans and rice every day of my life!
 

Lafakads

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Lmao I've had this go through my head too. all my mom makes is rice, beans and chicken. it gets depressing at times. I feel your pain

I love it now, but for the first 18 years of my life when I had no other choice of food, it does get boring!
 

Planes2Doc

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Being a underrepresented minority is not and should not be a means to an end.

The cut-throat competitiveness and the consequences of failing have made most things a means to an end, when from a moral standpoint, they shouldn't be.

Given what medical school admissions entails, I don't think many people feel that they can afford to abide by their idealistic principles.
 

DoctorLacrosse

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Being a underrepresented minority is not and should not be a means to an end.
bp9v38s

Thank you for this very original insight. Medemic already beat you to it on the first page though. appreciate it though. :)
 

Planes2Doc

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I agree (feel like I say this a lot, but I do lol). For many of us we would fill out the application this way regardless of any advantage, though there are others who may not. It's unfortunate that we have to spend so much time volunteering, researching, etc. when the majority of people do it because they "have to". Sucks worse for the few who would have done it anyway because they enjoy it. Doesn't matter though, this is the game we have to play to achieve our goals.

I totally agree with you, and it's ridiculous how people on SDN start bashing each other when they admit that they are just going through the motions of the game.

When you look at it, SDN is one big oxymoron. The point of SDN is to find ways to improve your application and gain an advantage. Yet, most people deny that they would ever consider gaining an advantage of any sort, and criticize those that admit that they would.

Now once you're in medical school and talk to fellow students, it's like the absolute opposite of SDN. :laugh:
 

DoctorLacrosse

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I totally agree with you, and it's ridiculous how people on SDN start bashing each other when they admit that they are just going through the motions of the game.

When you look at it, SDN is one big oxymoron. The point of SDN is to find ways to improve your application and gain an advantage. Yet, most people deny that they would ever consider gaining an advantage of any sort, and criticize those that admit that they would.

Now once you're in medical school and talk to fellow students, it's like the absolute opposite of SDN. :laugh:

Haha the OPPOSITE of SDN?! sounds like heaven to me, can't wait ;) ... but nah it really is a shame. I actually respect those who are willing to admit that they are going through the motions because they have to. it's refreshing to hear, especially when the majority of people on here are extremely self righteous and love to put down others for being honest. But, to each their own.
 

Planes2Doc

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Haha the OPPOSITE of SDN?! sounds like heaven to me, can't wait ;) ... but nah it really is a shame. I actually respect those who are willing to admit that they are going through the motions because they have to. it's refreshing to hear, especially when the majority of people on here are extremely self righteous and love to put down others for being honest. But, to each their own.

Oh trust me, it's heaven! Until you learn about the things you need to do for residency. :laugh:

But it's great to hear that you share this perspective as well. And honestly, I'm more ticked off by someone who completely falsifies who they are when they do their activities versus someone that is truthful about their intentions when going through the motions. As much as the former technically pisses me off, I have absolutely no ill feelings toward these people. I don't think anyone realizes the kinds of pressures and stresses that we face on here, especially with the many unrealistic expectations that we are handed. We have to do what we have to do, and that is all.
 

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Oh trust me, it's heaven! Until you learn about the things you need to do for residency. :laugh:

But it's great to hear that you share this perspective as well. And honestly, I'm more ticked off by someone who completely falsifies who they are when they do their activities versus someone that is truthful about their intentions when going through the motions. As much as the former technically pisses me off, I have absolutely no ill feelings toward these people. I don't think anyone realizes the kinds of pressures and stresses that we face on here, especially with the many unrealistic expectations that we are handed. We have to do what we have to do, and that is all.

I respected your perspectives on here before, but now I do even more. Extremely well said and I feel exactly the same way. Now I know I REALLY need to get into med school :D
 

Planes2Doc

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Sorry to revive this thread, but my buddy wanted me to ask a dumb question for him, so here I am hahaha...

Like myself, my buddy is half European and half hispanic (polish and Mexican). On his app this year he marked just Hispanic, and was admitted to a great school with less than stellar stats. he wants to know if, since he mostly looks white, could there be any negative repercussions in the future for him "leaving white off of his application" (his words). Sorry for the stupid question, I think he's looking for reassurance. Thanks guys

I doubt it. If this was an issue, it would have been addressed at the interviews, most likely resulting in a rejection.
 

DoctorLacrosse

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I doubt it. If this was an issue, it would have been addressed at the interviews, most likely resulting in a rejection.

haha that's exactly what I told him. my word isn't good enough for him though so, here I am lol. I'm jealous of his acceptance to say the least :/
 

Planes2Doc

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haha that's exactly what I told him. my word isn't good enough for him though so, here I am lol. I'm jealous of his acceptance to say the least :/

Well as long as he doesn't do anything stupid, like flaunting this to everyone at this school, then he should be okay. If it were a problem, then it would have stopped at thr interviews. It's not like he was a white South African that labeled himself as "African/American," which would piss people off. If that happened at an interview, I'm sure the ADCOMs would most likely burn that applicant at the stake for gaming the system. So as long as he didn't rub it in, he should be fine.
 
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