Master's before PhD- how much does school prestige count?

[mslinzyann]

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Hey experts,
I know I have posted about a handful of career plans, but I need your advice on this subject. Plus, since I've been off the forums I've obtained a job in the mental health field and gotten a lot of experience.

My undergraduate GPA was 2.8. About a year and a half ago I took a few classes at the graduate level and got A's, but I just wasn't sure if this was the field for me. So I took a job in the field and now I feel sure about going for my PhD in clinical psych.

The problem, of course, is that my undergrad GPA is so low that it would be really difficult to get into any PhD. So I thought I would go back and get a Master's in psychology, rock that out, study hard for he GRE, and then apply.

In my area I only have a couple mid tier schools to choose from (Central Michigan University and Western Mich University) for clinical or counseling psych. The other options would be online education, or a degree in psyhology unrelated to clinical psych, maybe something more research focused or in developmental psych?

Please help me! What are your ideas?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

-Don't do any degree online.
-Get research experience....preferably find a MA/MS program that offers/requires a thesis.
-State schools are just as worthwhile as private, etc.

 

[Promotetruth]

Consider your long term goals. If they are to attend a Clinical PhD or strong PsyD program, go for a MA program with a good hit rate in terms of getting their students into doctoral programs. This is likely to be a program that emphasizes research and basic psychology and de-emphasizes courses on intervention, testing and practice. Doctoral programs are not looking for students with clinical skills and who know strategies already. PhD programs are looking for students with experience conducting research and with good quantitative skills. I believe Western Mich is well known for helping students gain a strong background in prep for PhD programs. I don't know anything about the other program. But that is what you should ask about if yo are deciding between programs-which places importance on the goals you have and which has good outcome.

 

[mslinzyann]

Thanks to you both for your feedback. What you're saying about finding a program that requires a thesis and looking for something that will help me gain quantitative skills/research knowledge.That makes a lot of sense. I was afraid that going to a school that is a lower tier school might cause me problems later, but it looks like it's possible to excel at these schools also. Right now I have some geographic limitations due to financial limitations and needing to work while I do school, which is why I'm trying to stay in this area.

 

[pretzels]

Thanks to you both for your feedback. What you're saying about finding a program that requires a thesis and looking for something that will help me gain quantitative skills/research knowledge.That makes a lot of sense. I was afraid that going to a school that is a lower tier school might cause me problems later, but it looks like it's possible to excel at these schools also. Right now I have some geographic limitations due to financial limitations and needing to work while I do school, which is why I'm trying to stay in this area.

A lot of the schools i looked at and applied to were very explicit in being full-time only. Whether or not they actually prohibit you from working while being a student (versus implying you'll probably be too busy to work) is not something i've ever been able to clarify, but its definitely a message i would look for in the program overview.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

A lot of the schools i looked at and applied to were very explicit in being full-time only. Whether or not they actually prohibit you from working while being a student (versus implying you'll probably be too busy to work) is not something i've ever been able to clarify, but its definitely a message i would look for in the program overview.

This is complete conjecture on my part, but I'd think that masters programs may be more open to an individual being employed outside of school (particularly if no funding is provided) than would doctoral programs. Reason being that financial assistance (e.g., stipend, tuition remission) from the doctoral program often comes attached to a stipulation that you can't work unless approved by the department.

 

[szymk1sm]

This is complete conjecture on my part, but I'd think that masters programs may be more open to an individual being employed outside of school (particularly if no funding is provided) than would doctoral programs. Reason being that financial assistance (e.g., stipend, tuition remission) from the doctoral program often comes attached to a stipulation that you can't work unless approved by the department.

I'll elaborate on this. I completed a master's degree at one of the universities mentioned in the original post. I was "partially funded" as I was only in the master's program, so 1/2 tuition was paid and like a $5000/semester stipend. In addition to the TA duties I was required to perform as part of the program, I was paid by my advisor as RA, paid by another professor to TA, and had a part-time job waitressing. Yes it was tough, yes it taught me time management, but it also allowed me to keep the lifestyle that I was accustomed to in undergrad. I think I was the only one in my cohort who did this, and it's not for everyone, but if you can manage it, then I would suggest figuring out how to fit it in your schedule.

At my program, outside work was "prohibited" for PhD students and it was "highly suggested" that master's level students did not work.

 

[bmedclinic]

go for a MA program with a good hit rate in terms of getting their students into doctoral programs.

This is probably very obvious.. so I apologize. But this was one of my largest blunders of my entry to a doctoral program, and I've regretted it since. My MA program totally lied to me about the quoted text and I took them for their word instead of investigating further. On that, I choose to go to one program over another. Of the 14 people in my MA cohort, most of them have pretty crappy jobs, one left after 1 year to get into a counseling PhD program and I'm the only other one to get into a clinical psych phd program.

So basically, calmly ask about their rates and ask to see their data (if appropriate given context of the conversation) and dont make the same mistake I did. 🙂

 

[mslinzyann]

I am considering quitting my job to go back to school full time; I might work a couple nights a week doing something simple, but not trying to balance two full time gigs. This is too important not to throw myself into it 100%.

 

[LisaLisa86]

Generally MS programs are full-time but you can still work (in my cohort, usually as assessors, PT research assistants in related labs, TAs, or one of your PI's grants). I'd say the most important things are getting great foundations through your courses, getting lab experience, doing an awesome thesis, and then who your advisor is. If you have a well-respected advisor in your field, regardless what school you are at, it will likely open more doors for you when you are applying to PhD programs.

 

[CheetahGirl]

-Don't do any degree online.
-Get research experience....preferably find a MA/MS program that offers/requires a thesis.
-State schools are just as worthwhile as private, etc.

I concur.

Before applying to doctoral clinical psych programs, I worked full-time in a large urban medical center and got a masters in general psych (w/ an emphasis in school psych b/c that's what the program offered & they had a school/clinical psych PsyD program in their dept.). I just scheduled my master's classes in the evening and adjusted my work schedule to get off earlier. I worked as a clinical research coordinator the entire time so everything was inter-related. One big edge that I had was making sure I was involved in published research in my day job and conference presentation in my master's work. I probably got about 5+ publication/conference presentations from this combined work. So think about that as well and it will help improve you CV.

On a side note: I never applied to my Master's doctoral program because I was not interested in a combined school/clinical psych PsyD, but the child-focused school psych education was interesting and valuable in my child therapy work now. So don't discount things if they don't fit perfectly into your future plan, you can always find a way to incorporate your education in your bigger picture. I found some people in my doctoral program who had masters or bachelors in English/Language Arts make excellent therapist. The copious writing is a piece of cake for them and they always seem to find just the right words to say. 😎 If you consider this option, make sure you have top grades in all your psychology pre-requisite courses and ace the psych GREs if your desired schools require them. It's always a good idea to meet with an graduate admissions counselor (just pick any university that has doctoral program & make an appt) before applying to see what those folks think about your plans before actually committing to anything.

Good luck!

 

[kpand]

I've read some programs where having a masters could negatively effect one's application. I've also seen some programs prefer students with the masters degree. I think having a thesis is more beneficial to PhD applicants than a license-eligible degree which focuses on clinical skills. On the other hand, I did not have a thesis in my program but I worked afterward at a hospital thanks to my degree, and I sought out research on my own time to gain skills and improve my application. I agree with the 3 points Therapist4Chnge emphasized.

As far as working goes, I was in a FT masters program and worked between 15-20 hours per week. That being said, getting really high grades, impressing your letters of rec writers, and practicing for the GRE is much more important if you plan on applying to doc programs. Plus, you can always work a year or two after you complete the program and make up for any extra loans you took out!