Master's student wanting PhD bombed GREs

[baba ganoush]

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Hi,
Thank you in advance...Please give me any comments/advice, etc that you might have...

I'm currently completing a MSc in Clinical Psychology, and I was planning on applying to a PhD program in Dec/Jan in the same field.
I took the GREs yesterday in an effort to increase my chances. Unfortunately, I bombed them again...
Here is a record of my scores:
2007/09 530V 580Q AWA 4.5
2007/10 410V 620Q AWA 4.0 <---I was sick while I wrote this GRE
Yesterday 450V 610Q AWA unknown

This is a shock to me, because on the Powerprep practice tests, I scored 560-570V, which is a heck of a lot better than 450. I double checked my answers, but I think I rushed through the verbal, nonetheless.

I don't want to disclose too much information about my whereabouts. But I can list other credentials I have under my belt.
1) Like I said I am completing my MSc and I have done well with these courses and thoroughly enjoy the program (A- average (all As or A-'s, one B+ in first semester).
2) Hefty scholorship that funds my thesis for this year.
3) One poster presentation for undergrad thesis
4) Practicum in an outpatient hosptial (begins in Sept)
5) 1.5yrs experience as research assistant in Lab during undergrad
6) "meh" Subject test score (70th percentile)
7) Good letters of reference

I know I lack publications and presentation experience. I am trying to get my undergrad published, but (long story) it prob won't be ready til next summer. I plan to present my master's thesis, but the conference is not til next year (June).

Do I stand a chance applying for PhD programs this year???

 

[psyed4clinPhD]

Sorry to hear about your GRE troubles. I am currently studying for them 😎 I think you could apply to schools with no GRE cutoffs and highligh in your SoP that you have all these other accomplishments (MSc, thesis funding, etc.). That is just my opinion though. Good luck!!

 

[nononora]

I think you could apply to schools with no GRE cutoffs

Please don't advocate the easy way out. There are enough who take that route already. Besides, would you recommend a physician who didn't do well on the MCATs to apply to a medical school with no MCAT cutoffs? I wouldn't feel comfortable with such an individual as my personal physician.

To the OP: Have you tried taking GRE classes? Apart from doing practice tests, are you learning the strategies/shortcuts necessary to be successful in your GREs? Also, do you have any research experience in your MSc program? If your only research experience is 1.5 years in a lab as an undergrad then no I don't think you stand a good chance.

 

[cara susanna]

Yeah, I would include some programs with low or no GRE cutoffs, assuming they match your interests of course.

Edit: It's not really the "easy way out." U Washington doesn't use cutoffs, for instance.

 

[nononora]

UW's GRE scores of admitted applicants average 1300+. Even though some schools don't formally have a cutoff, one would need significant research experience (which the OP doesn't have) to offset a lower GRE score. AFAIK, most schools won't utilize a formal cutoff and usually weight each part of your application based on what they're looking for. Your overall score is then an addition of the weighted scores of your entire application package.

 

[cara susanna]

I agree, I'm just saying that no GRE cutoff doesn't necessarily indicate a lesser-quality program.

 

[psychrat]

Besides, would you recommend a physician who didn't do well on the MCATs to apply to a medical school with no MCAT cutoffs? I wouldn't feel comfortable with such an individual as my personal physician.


The GRE does not test your ability as a therapist. What a silly thing to say. The MCAT actually has science on it and is much more specialized than the GRE. I hardly doubt that ones ability to solve a geometry problem will affect how they work with clients. I would not base my professional recommendation on how well someone did on their GRE... If I were you I would take the GRE again and also apply to a wide range of programs. My 2 cents.

 

[krisrox]

Besides, would you recommend a physician who didn't do well on the MCATs to apply to a medical school with no MCAT cutoffs? I wouldn't feel comfortable with such an individual as my personal physician.


The GRE does not test your ability as a therapist. What a silly thing to say. The MCAT actually has science on it and is much more specialized than the GRE. I hardly doubt that ones ability to solve a geometry problem will affect how they work with clients. I would not base my professional recommendation on how well someone did on their GRE... If I were you I would take the GRE again and also apply to a wide range of programs. My 2 cents.

To nononora, you don't know how well a physician has done on the MCAT when you go into their office. Many doctors get degrees in other countries and do not need to take the MCAT, only their boards. To psychrat, however, the actual substance of the MCAT, although it is science-based, has very little to do with medicine itself. I've taken the MCAT. There is no anatomy or diagnoses, but there are multiple choice and reading questions.

A standardized test may test your knowledge about a particular topic and your overall intelligence, but above all it tests your ability to take a test. Unfortunately, we haven't found a better alternative to MCATs and GREs, so we're stuck studying for these things along with doing research, clinical work, and doing well in our classes.

 

[futureapppsy2]

nora,

What makes you say that the OP lacks significant research experience? S/he lists 1.5 of undergraduate RA experience plus two years (counting the current year) of research experience in a master's program, a poster, and, I think, some internal funding (judging from the "scholarship" comment).

 

[nononora]

The GRE does not test your ability as a therapist.

The MCAT does not test your ability as a brain surgeon or as a family practitioner. The GMAT does not test your ability as an investment banker or as an accountant. And what krisrox said. Questions of validity aside, standardized tests are there to provide an imperfect measure of scholastic aptitude. Certainly, there are extremely bright individuals who do badly on these tests for whatever reason and it is unfortunate that they have to face such hurdles. However, the GRE/MCAT/GMAT attempt to ensure some sort of minimum standard for the programs that require them. Also psychrat, admission into a PhD program is an academic endeavor, and programs want to be sure that you are capable of completing the program within a reasonable timeframe. We don't take 4 years of classes to become a therapist. There are easier/faster ways to reach that goal.

To nononora, you don't know how well a physician has done on the MCAT when you go into their office. Many doctors get degrees in other countries and do not need to take the MCAT, only their boards.

I believe this is a contentious issue with those that have gone through the entire med school process in the US. I'm not saying that I'd want to know my physician's GPA/MCAT scores but that it is a screening tool to ensure that only those who are academically capable are given a chance to pursue that career. Certainly, where a physician obtains his MD is somewhat important and for the most part, I would feel more comfortable with an MD who graduated from a top medical school than one who graduated from Paris Hilton Medical School. While that may not ensure that my MD will be a slam dunk in the primary care department, I think I'll take my chances. I can deal with not knowing their MCAT scores as long as I can see their diploma on the wall 🙂

nora,

What makes you say that the OP lacks significant research experience? S/he lists 1.5 of undergraduate RA experience plus two years (counting the current year) of research experience in a master's program, a poster, and, I think, some internal funding (judging from the "scholarship" comment).

It depends on how the OP is conducting the master's thesis... I've seen some simple thesis methods before that don't involve being part of a research lab. I think there was a recent APA study of admitted students that found an increasing trend of working for 1 or 2 years in a full-time RA job prior to applying. In speaking to faculty and other observational experiences, it seems like it is increasingly difficult to get into a PhD program directly from undergrad - for my class (cohort?) of 12, 11 had at least 1 year of full-time RA experience.

 

[baba ganoush]

Wow, I wasn't expecting so many responses...thanks 🙂.

As part of the requirement for an MSc, I am conducting a thesis. I am not sure what would define a simple thesis from a more complicated/complex one. In my opinion, it is more complex than simple. It is in its preliminary stages as horrors of horrors, I did not work on it during the summer since I was studying for the flippin' GREs. My Master's thesis is also an innovative idea that according to our literature review has not been conducted before.

It is likely that I will be using an online survery for my Master's thesis. I'm not sure if that is considered a simple measure...? Further, I am not in a research lab for my master's thesis...it's just me and my advisor.

My undergraduate participation in a lab was...well, grunt work (but I did enjoy it). I ran participants for grad students and later typed up our sessions from the recordings. It involved following a script that the grad student provided and understanding the objectives of their research.

As for retaking the GREs any time soon...I shudder at the mere thought of it. I don't have time this year to retake them. I really need to get cracking on my thesis and I would like to concentrate on doing well in my practicum. If I do not get in, I might retake them in a year or two. I believe my main downfall is that I stopped reading novels once I began university. The reading comprehension section is not my friend either. I have a hard time reading complex passages very quickly. Even when I read journal articles, I have to reread them a couple of times to comprehend everything. I memorized words and applied the tactics from Princeton and Barron's and I thought it was doing me good (according to practice tests), but I lack time management. I felt very rushed during the Verbal. I think it would take me several months of continuous practice in order to do well on the GREs.

Please keep the comment coming...

 

[psychrat]

Also psychrat, admission into a PhD program is an academic endeavor, and programs want to be sure that you are capable of completing the program within a reasonable timeframe. We don't take 4 years of classes to become a therapist. There are easier/faster ways to reach that goal.


I agree...However, the way you worded your post and related it to medical doctors/personal physicians made it sound like you were thinking of therapy. Also, please keep in mind that people get into schools for different reasons. I know people who did great on the MCAT and did not get into their top choice for medical school, and I know others who did not do so great and got into "reach schools". At the end of the day, it is not your test scores that are going to make you do well in a field, but the quality of your training, as well as other factors.