Match 2025

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aneftp

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  1. Attending Physician
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Seems like another tough match.
The 4 program directors I know all filled. Not sure how far down the list they had to go.

Congrats to all those who matched this year.
 
aneftp said:
Seems like another tough match.
The 4 program directors I know all filled. Not sure how far down the list they had to go.

Congrats to all those who matched this year.
Click to expand...
>99 percent of spots filled this year. Anesthesia is definitely a competitive speciality now. Just a tier under Derm, Ortho, Plastics ect. Crazy how fast it all changed over the last five years.
 
amyl said:
I’m genuinely curious why all these people are going into anesthesia now. Most my colleagues and I think we have 5-8 good years left in the specialty.
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Money and life style.

Locums will last 3-4 more years or until employer figure it out. 300k w2 plus 3 days a week will get crnas to flinch and bite. That’s what it will take. If I were hca in Florida. I would squeeze the heck out of the 1099 crna locums

They know the game. They just hope the employers don’t figure it out. And yes I have talked to a bunch of 1099 crnas.

This holds for MDs also. Many med students see $$$ in locums. Remember most med students are 24-28 years old and many don’t have families. So they see the cash cow in locums.

I showed couple of the university 3rd year med students my weeks worth of locums pay and it convinced them to go into anesthesia (they were leaning between radiology and anesthesia)

Med students are so much smarter in terms of Reddit/forums than many of us decades ago.
 
amyl said:
I’m genuinely curious why all these people are going into anesthesia now. Most my colleagues and I think we have 5-8 good years left in the specialty.
Click to expand...
I sort of have the same attitude/question, but then remind myself that we've been saying we have a good 5-8 years left for at least 20 years now. And now I think perhaps all of medicine has 5-8 years left so maybe in comparison anesthesiology is one of the better specialities?
 
aneftp said:
Money and life style.

Locums will last 3-4 more years or until employer figure it out. 300k w2 plus 3 days a week will get crnas to flinch and bite. That’s what it will take. If I were hca in Florida. I would squeeze the heck out of the 1099 crna locums

They know the game. They just hope the employers don’t figure it out. And yes I have talked to a bunch of 1099 crnas.

This holds for MDs also. Many med students see $$$ in locums. Remember most med students are 24-28 years old and many don’t have families. So they see the cash cow in locums.

I showed couple of the university 3rd year med students my weeks worth of locums pay and it convinced them to go into anesthesia (they were leaning between radiology and anesthesia)

Med students are so much smarter in terms of Reddit/forums than many of us decades ago.
Click to expand...
This is spot on. Alot of residents are coming out and going straight into Locums. This was unheard of even a few years ago. If you are single or atleast don't have children yet, it is easy to hustle and do locums and make atleast 700-800 1099 a year easily working every other week or something.
 
RedandBlack7 said:
This is spot on. Alot of residents are coming out and going straight into Locums. This was unheard of even a few years ago. If you are single or atleast don't have children yet, it is easy to hustle and do locums and make atleast 700-800 1099 a year easily working every other week or something.
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But I do think young attendings need to get at least a year under their belt before doing locums. Just to navigate things. You can be thrown to the wolves if the regular staff don’t take it easy on you as new grad (and I’m not just talking about cases but environments). Envoy won’t let new grads do 1099 (unless they have desperate facilities). Crna fresh grads are even worst.

I’m doing a crazy thing next month. 3 different brand new facilities i have never been in. 3 different computer systems. All in one week and all in different cities. (But it’s Florida u can get from
One side to the other side in 100-120 min if u drive 85 miles an hour and no traffic ) So I’m veteran savvy. Would not recommend that to a new grad.
 
aneftp said:
But I do think young attendings need to get at least a year under their belt before doing locums. Just to navigate things. You can be thrown to the wolves if the regular staff don’t take it easy on you as new grad (and I’m not just talking about cases but environments). Envoy won’t let new grads do 1099 (unless they have desperate facilities). Crna fresh grads are even worst.

I’m doing a crazy thing next month. 3 different brand new facilities i have never been in. 3 different computer systems. All in one week and all in different cities. (But it’s Florida u can get from
One side to the other side in 100-120 min if u drive 85 miles an hour and no traffic ) So I’m veteran savvy. Would not recommend that to a new grad.
Click to expand...
That sounds miserable. I would rather stay with my group, make slightly less, have the benefits package, and sleep in my own bed every non call night. There is something to be said for knowing your environment, where everything is, who will help you in an emergency, etc. Plus the little things like dealing with tax implications of 1099, where to park, where to get food, knowing the surgeons and nurses, who is reliable and who is not.
Once you pay the taxes, cover the costs of lost benefits, and account for the cost of being in a city that you don’t know or don’t like, I think the value proposition loses some of the luster. Perhaps if you can find a really good paying Locums job that could be steady and long term, you might eventually feel like part of the team instead of an outsider.
I have been shipped to other hospitals periodically to fill in gaps and I find it less fulfilling than being in my comfort zone that I’ve known for a long time. It can be a nice change of pace every once in a while, but I don’t care for it on a regular basis. I like some degree of predictability in a career where there is a lot of unpredictability. Some people are comfortable with constant change and others like their comfort zone. Part of it is figuring out which personality category you fit into. I can fit in most places, it just becomes whether I want to or not.
Those are things I would worry about.
 
Gern Blansten said:
That sounds miserable. I would rather stay with my group, make slightly less, have the benefits package, and sleep in my own bed every non call night. There is something to be said for knowing your environment, where everything is, who will help you in an emergency, etc. Plus the little things like dealing with tax implications of 1099, where to park, where to get food, knowing the surgeons and nurses, who is reliable and who is not.
Once you pay the taxes, cover the costs of lost benefits, and account for the cost of being in a city that you don’t know or don’t like, I think the value proposition loses some of the luster. Perhaps if you can find a really good paying Locums job that could be steady and long term, you might eventually feel like part of the team instead of an outsider.
I have been shipped to other hospitals periodically to fill in gaps and I find it less fulfilling than being in my comfort zone that I’ve known for a long time. It can be a nice change of pace every once in a while, but I don’t care for it on a regular basis. I like some degree of predictability in a career where there is a lot of unpredictability. Some people are comfortable with constant change and others like their comfort zone. Part of it is figuring out which personality category you fit into. I can fit in most places, it just becomes whether I want to or not.
Those are things I would worry about.
Click to expand...
I have two stable 1099 jobs within 20-50 min from my house the last 4 years.

I have stable w2 job also.

But I’m always willing to try something new.

I’m really after the 24 hr weekend calls. For me to drive 90 minutes and do 24-48 hr calls is worth it. But I like to try a place out daytime first and get a feel for it.
 
aneftp said:
I have two stable 1099 jobs within 20-50 min from my house the last 4 years.

I have stable w2 job also.

But I’m always willing to try something new.

I’m really after the 24 hr weekend calls. For me to drive 90 minutes and do 24-48 hr calls is worth it. But I like to try a place out daytime first and get a feel for it.
Click to expand...


How old are the kids?
 
aneftp said:
12/14. Almost 13/15 this summer. They are on cruise control. Can send uber for kids over 13 now.
The older one has golf cart to ride around golf course and to town center and movies etc.
Click to expand...


Their own mini Tesla. Glad it’s not an e-bike.
 
nimbus said:
Their own mini Tesla. Glad it’s not an e-bike.
Click to expand...
Yeah e-bike are all around the neighborhood as well. Too dangerous

Plus e scooters. Lots of complaints in the neighborhood.
 
Gern Blansten said:
That sounds miserable. I would rather stay with my group, make slightly less, have the benefits package, and sleep in my own bed every non call night. There is something to be said for knowing your environment, where everything is, who will help you in an emergency, etc. Plus the little things like dealing with tax implications of 1099, where to park, where to get food, knowing the surgeons and nurses, who is reliable and who is not.
Once you pay the taxes, cover the costs of lost benefits, and account for the cost of being in a city that you don’t know or don’t like, I think the value proposition loses some of the luster. Perhaps if you can find a really good paying Locums job that could be steady and long term, you might eventually feel like part of the team instead of an outsider.
I have been shipped to other hospitals periodically to fill in gaps and I find it less fulfilling than being in my comfort zone that I’ve known for a long time. It can be a nice change of pace every once in a while, but I don’t care for it on a regular basis. I like some degree of predictability in a career where there is a lot of unpredictability. Some people are comfortable with constant change and others like their comfort zone. Part of it is figuring out which personality category you fit into. I can fit in most places, it just becomes whether I want to or not.
Those are things I would worry about.
Click to expand...
When most or all of the jobs in your area are run by envision or another AMC then you are happy to get away to a new place lol

Also the taxes are beneficial as a 1099. Even if you make a little side 1099 income, you can deduct all your license renewals, DEA renewals, cell phone, computer, CME costs, etc.
 
RedandBlack7 said:
Also the taxes are beneficial as a 1099. Even if you make a little side 1099 income, you can deduct all your license renewals, DEA renewals, cell phone, computer, CME costs, etc.
Click to expand...
While it is very common to do this, it is not technically clean. E.g. you make 500K as a W-2 employed physician and 50K as a 1099 locum, you shouldn't deduct all of computer, license, DEA, CME, cellphone against the 1099. Only about 10% should be written off (50/550). Do lots of people do it?...yup. Are you likely to get audited?...nah.
 
nimbus said:
Our 100% physician owned w2 group does all of these plus a CBP. Don’t need to be 1099.
Click to expand...
You can do that in a small physican owned group. Where we ran everything pretax through our 11 doc private group.

The way benefits work etc.

Can’t do that in a large practice if 1000 docs get the same cbp. You could but it would be a nightmare to administer
 
aneftp said:
You can do that in a small physican owned group. Where we ran everything pretax through our 11 doc private group.

The way benefits work etc.

Can’t do that in a large practice if 1000 docs get the same cbp. You could but it would be a nightmare to administer
Click to expand...


Our group is >>>11 but <1000. Agree you need like minded partners. But all doctors hate taxes whether red or blue.
 
Dr. Rude said:
While it is very common to do this, it is not technically clean. E.g. you make 500K as a W-2 employed physician and 50K as a 1099 locum, you shouldn't deduct all of computer, license, DEA, CME, cellphone against the 1099. Only about 10% should be written off (50/550). Do lots of people do it?...yup. Are you likely to get audited?...nah.
Click to expand...


And all those things are legitimate business deductions. Can write off pretax against collections even if you’re W2.
 
nimbus said:
And all those things are legitimate business deductions. Can write off pretax against collections even if you’re W2.
Click to expand...
Sorta. If you are physician owned group, the group can reimburse you with pre-tax dollars. If you are a hospital employee who gets a w-2 those deductions aren't worth much...if anything.
 
kidthor said:
I sort of have the same attitude/question, but then remind myself that we've been saying we have a good 5-8 years left for at least 20 years now. And now I think perhaps all of medicine has 5-8 years left so maybe in comparison anesthesiology is one of the better specialities?
Click to expand...
To add to this perspective there was doom and gloom when Medicare started, when Medicare DRGs were introduced and when Hillary Clinton was going to remake healthcare. I was told by an anesthesiologist in 1980 that if I chose to pursue the specialty that I would make a good living and he was correct.
 
I do wonder if the people who settle into good w2 jobs now will have it better in a couple of years than those solely doing locums. Once locums starts maybe paying less, or is less desirable, it might be hard for locums only docs to pivot into good practices because there won’t be room. They might have to settle for less desirable long term jobs.
 
aneftp said:
I have two stable 1099 jobs within 20-50 min from my house the last 4 years.

I have stable w2 job also.

But I’m always willing to try something new.

I’m really after the 24 hr weekend calls. For me to drive 90 minutes and do 24-48 hr calls is worth it. But I like to try a place out daytime first and get a feel for it.
Click to expand...
Do you file local taxes in all these places you work or just do federal and state?
 
When I was applying EM was the rage. When i asked why people kept saying it’s just a great lifestyle. 8-12 shifts a month. Most of the same EM doctors I talk to regret going into EM. I’m guessing that their primary motivation for applying was the lifestyle (which isn’t great to begin with ) and they were willing to ignore the day to day aspect of the job. When I told them I was applying to anesthesiology they would say good luck in a dying specialty and nurses are going to take your job. Thiings can turn around very quickly. Also, I think more medical schools are giving more exposure to anesthesiology to medical students
 
ERRES2288 said:
Do you file local taxes in all these places you work or just do federal and state?
Click to expand...
I stay local in the state of Florida and Florida has no state income taxes to file.

…now I do know a few who travel out of state for 1099 in states that do have state income taxes….legally they are suppose to report state income taxes ….i will leave it up to interpretation what they actually do since many locums companies 1099 checks don’t originate from those states
 
My W2 job is in a no income tax state, and I’ll make about 150-200k this year 1099 in a state with income tax. I’m trying to do the right thing and file…but the state makes it such a damn pain.

So much easier not to do it…
 
Drwine said:
To add to this perspective there was doom and gloom when Medicare started, when Medicare DRGs were introduced and when Hillary Clinton was going to remake healthcare. I was told by an anesthesiologist in 1980 that if I chose to pursue the specialty that I would make a good living and he was correct.
Click to expand...
This! I am on the back side of my career. Could have retired years ago - lived a very nice but not outlandish lifestyle. It’s been doom and gloom just around the corner for the entire 30+ years I have been in the specialty. The gap between supply of us and the demand for our services has not even begun to close. I’ve been in solo, small group, large regional group and national vendor groups (sometimes in leadership). It is not going to crater in the next 10 years unless we go all in on something like single payer. Even then we will do ok compared to most.
 
Euripides said:
This! I am on the back side of my career. Could have retired years ago - lived a very nice but not outlandish lifestyle. It’s been doom and gloom just around the corner for the entire 30+ years I have been in the specialty. The gap between supply of us and the demand for our services has not even begun to close. I’ve been in solo, small group, large regional group and national vendor groups (sometimes in leadership). It is not going to crater in the next 10 years unless we go all in on something like single payer. Even then we will do ok compared to most.
Click to expand...
Crnas are their own worst enemy these days.

They demand
1. Pay (high)
2. Schedules (work when they feel like it)

It’s hard to imagine “collaboration” effort when more than half of them don’t even want to work a real schedule

Thus huge gaps in scheduling
 
aneftp said:
Crnas are their own worst enemy these days.

They demand
1. Pay (high)
2. Schedules (work when they feel like it)

It’s hard to imagine “collaboration” effort when more than half of them don’t even want to work a real schedule

Thus huge gaps in scheduling
Click to expand...

This is so true... They all don’t want to work. They all want more pay. And breaks. And out at 3pm. There is a huge sense of entitlement, almost delusional.
 
secretasianman said:
This is so true... They all don’t want to work. They all want more pay. And breaks. And out at 3pm. There is a huge sense of entitlement, almost delusional.
Click to expand...
No. Not exact. Crnas have changed over the years.

The heavy hitters want 24 hrs shifts and make more elsewhere

The mommy tracks want to work 2-3 days a week. Plus get out 3pm

None of them will want to work 7-3 (5 days a week).

This is the reason there is a staffing shortage throughout most of the country.
 
aneftp said:
No. Not exact. Crnas have changed over the years.

The heavy hitters want 24 hrs shifts and make more elsewhere

The mommy tracks want to work 2-3 days a week. Plus get out 3pm

None of them will want to work 7-3 (5 days a week).

This is the reason there is a staffing shortage throughout most of the country.
Click to expand...
Agree with you on this. Their w2 hours just enough to get benefits, then make $$ elsewhere. But then complain very loudly when there isn’t an extra body to get them out.
 
secretasianman said:
This is so true... They all don’t want to work. They all want more pay. And breaks. And out at 3pm. There is a huge sense of entitlement, almost delusional.
Click to expand...

Who wouldn’t want more money with less work? Hell I want that too. Kudos to them they no shame in prioritizing what’s important for a job
 
sevo00 said:
Who wouldn’t want more money with less work? Hell I want that too. Kudos to them they no shame in prioritizing what’s important for a job
Click to expand...
Once general surgeons figure this out (the other specialist surgeons have figured out this year ago) by limiting their calls.

It’s game over for hospitals. To this day. I ask each general surgeon why they don’t charge per hour they are required to take call even phone calls.

The mentality of being a doctor and hospitals taking advantage of free non billable phone calls is so old school. Hospitals already have such a hard time getting urologists to cover for calls and patients arrive septic with stones that need to be temp stented.
 
aneftp said:
Crnas are their own worst enemy these days.

They demand
1. Pay (high)
2. Schedules (work when they feel like it)

It’s hard to imagine “collaboration” effort when more than half of them don’t even want to work a real schedule

Thus huge gaps in scheduling
Click to expand...
Perfectly said!

Their collaboration is to come up with as many ways to claim their equivalency without doing the work to show for it. Period.

That’s the thing, it takes something to get in and go through med school, residency and fellowship. You don’t get that in a crna and thier micky mouse doctorates.
 
kidthor said:
I sort of have the same attitude/question, but then remind myself that we've been saying we have a good 5-8 years left for at least 20 years now. And now I think perhaps all of medicine has 5-8 years left so maybe in comparison anesthesiology is one of the better specialities?
Click to expand...
That’s true kidthor- the sky has been falling for years. Just like everyone told me not to do cv anes bc everything is going to be interventional cards and open cv surgery will be obsolete.
Fact is no one knows… no one could’ve predicted a global pandemic either.
 
amyl said:
Just like everyone told me not to do cv anes bc everything is going to be interventional cards and open cv surgery will be obsolete.
Click to expand...


It makes me crack up to think back to those days. Sounds so ridiculous now.
 
Pre scramble? Or post scramble open slot? Usually those post scramble slots open already will be pre filled by internal institutions transfer like an unhappy pgy-1 switching from general surgery
SRYSPAC said:
I took a quick glance at the stats per state, and I think Ohio was the only state to not match 100% of its spots. (Still matched like 98% or something)
Click to expand...
 
nimbus said:
Results are out. Any programs go unfilled?
Click to expand...
Ohio had one PGY1 categorical spot unfilled
Florida had one PGY2 advanced spot unfilled
Illinois, Louisiana, Missouri, New Jersey each had one R spot unfilled (CA1 to start in 2025)
This is in the main match. PD's don't have to participate in SOAP but I'd imagine those spots will be easily filled one way or another.
 
Last edited:
mmag said:
Ohio had one PGY1 categorical spot unfilled
Florida had one PGY2 advanced spot unfilled
Illinois, Louisiana, Missouri, New Jersey each had one R spot unfilled (CA1 to start in 2025)
This is in the main match. PD's don't have to participate in SOAP but I'd imagine those spots will be easily filled one way or another.
Click to expand...
Gotcha
I know the pgy-2 open slot Florida place. It was a disaster place hopefully they can turn it around.
 
Crazy competitive. Is anesthesiology the new dermatology? I really can't understand why but whatever.
 
I’m wondering if the Match is back to ROADs being the top tier specialities. I know R & A had a bit of a downturn in the not too distant past.
 
nimbus said:
From what I can see, plenty of people from lower tier and non-US medical schools still matching anesthesia. So it’s still not anything close to derm or ortho.
Click to expand...
Yep...
US IMG's usually Caribbean grads.
Anes 64/2114
Derm 2/253
Ortho 8/929
 
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