Match And Ranking

Started by SIMRAN111
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Browse articles Compare schools My application plan Read Interview Feedback
Practice for interviews Ask an Advisor
S

SIMRAN111

New Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Does anyone know how do programs rank the applicants or how does the match actually work from both the applicants and the program's list. I have interviewed at nine programs for EM and three EM_IM some of which i do not want to rank because of location. However, at the same time I get the feeling that the programs interview a lot more applicants than the spots available since at some places they have 2 or 4 EM spots and they interview anywhere from 40-80 appicants .. so i guess there is still a good chance that I will not match.

Any words of wisdom from people who have already gone through this painful process is appreciated.
 
SIMRAN111 said:
Does anyone know how do programs rank the applicants or how does the match actually work from both the applicants and the program's list. I have interviewed at nine programs for EM and three EM_IM some of which i do not want to rank because of location. However, at the same time I get the feeling that the programs interview a lot more applicants than the spots available since at some places they have 2 or 4 EM spots and they interview anywhere from 40-80 appicants .. so i guess there is still a good chance that I will not match.

Any words of wisdom from people who have already gone through this painful process is appreciated.
Click to expand...

I think this has been answered on here before...it involved monkeys throwing darts at the pictures of applicants that were hung on the wall. From that information I figured the key to matching easily was a LARGE picture so I resubmitted my ERAS photo to make it life size, I suggest you do the same. Why do you get the feeling that they interview more applicants than there are spots available? Lets see, 2 or 4 spots, 40-80 interviews...nope I dont get that same feeling maybe you could explain that. On your last point, I agree that there is a GOOD chance you wont match. Maybe you could ask some of these questions at your next interview to show you have really looked into the process that could decide the next few years of your life and you really have some good critical thinking skills to go with that work ethic. Good luck!

BTW, how is the experience at Hollwood Upstairs Medical College? Thanks.
 
Maybe you should go to the NRMP website to read the whole section on the resiency match.
 
dynx said:
BTW, how is the experience at Hollwood Upstairs Medical College? Thanks.
Click to expand...

I don't understand how so many of the people who post here act like jackasses? All this poster did was ask a question - jezzus!
 
dynx said:
I think this has been answered on here before...it involved monkeys throwing darts at the pictures of applicants that were hung on the wall. From that information I figured the key to matching easily was a LARGE picture so I resubmitted my ERAS photo to make it life size, I suggest you do the same. Why do you get the feeling that they interview more applicants than there are spots available? Lets see, 2 or 4 spots, 40-80 interviews...nope I dont get that same feeling maybe you could explain that. On your last point, I agree that there is a GOOD chance you wont match. Maybe you could ask some of these questions at your next interview to show you have really looked into the process that could decide the next few years of your life and you really have some good critical thinking skills to go with that work ethic. Good luck!

BTW, how is the experience at Hollwood Upstairs Medical College? Thanks.
Click to expand...


Dude i asked for words of wisdom???
 
I'm happy to help. I'm an IM program director, so the story may be somewhat different in EM.

All programs interview more applicants than spots. Then again, all applicants apply to more than one program. As programs, we know that not every applicant is going to choose us as their top choice. In general, programs are encouraged to rank 15-20 applicants for each spot in the match. This doesn't mean that you're not going to match -- those same 15-20 applicants are applying to multiple other programs, and they all can match in only one slot. Then again, if there are many more applicants than spots, someone's not going to match.

Programs determine rank list order through many mechanisms. Although I can't speak for all program directors, I put the most weight on the Dean's Letter / MSPE, Clerkship scores (esp med and surg), USMLE scores, and the interview evaluation. LOR's are mostly useless in my opinion. Usually several people evaluate each file and give it a score. We then create the list based on these scores. Because our lists are much longer than yours, we don't spend much time agonizing on who is ranked #40 and who is #41, instead I focus on who I want in the top 1/3, middle 1/3, bottom 1/3, and not on the list at all.

Just so that I don't create a wave of insomnia, the last category is very small -- most IM programs will rank almost everyone they interview.
 
aProgDirector said:
.

I put the most weight on the Dean's Letter / MSPE, Clerkship scores (esp med and surg), USMLE scores, and the interview evaluation. LOR's are mostly useless in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Do you use these criteria for international graduates too? Dean's letter in this case may only mention class rank, hardly detailed like the ones from American schools.
 
I interviewed at a place where, at the beginning of the day, they said we are all pretty much ranked already according to our applications, so the interview is more of a formality than anything else. (EM interview) That seems odd to me...I thought they would have general idea of where you are (ie, top, middle, bottom), but then the interview determines if you really 'fit' with the program.

This makes it seem like people who have the highest grades & scores automatically get the highest position on the rank list. So what happens to the remaining 95% of applicants?! I guess we are pushed to the back of the line.
 
QuantumX said:
Do you use these criteria for international graduates too? Dean's letter in this case may only mention class rank, hardly detailed like the ones from American schools.
Click to expand...

This is a good point. Dean's letters from international schools tend to be less helpful than those from US schools, although there are exceptions on both ends (I've seen some really poor US school dean's letters!)

Again, I can't speak for others, but I evaluate international grads via several criteria:

1. The school - If I've had a student from a school in the past who has done well, I tend to favor applicants from that school.

2. A letter from a clinical rotation in the US - I think this helps more than anything else. The more well known the program, the more weight it has. True clinical rotations greatly outweigh observerships with no clinical responsibility. A Letter of Ref is a must -- a US rotation without an LOR suggests a problem.

3. USMLE scores
 
aProgDirector said:
I'm happy to help. I'm an IM program director, so the story may be somewhat different in EM.

All programs interview more applicants than spots. Then again, all applicants apply to more than one program. As programs, we know that not every applicant is going to choose us as their top choice. In general, programs are encouraged to rank 15-20 applicants for each spot in the match. This doesn't mean that you're not going to match -- those same 15-20 applicants are applying to multiple other programs, and they all can match in only one slot. Then again, if there are many more applicants than spots, someone's not going to match.

Programs determine rank list order through many mechanisms. Although I can't speak for all program directors, I put the most weight on the Dean's Letter / MSPE, Clerkship scores (esp med and surg), USMLE scores, and the interview evaluation. LOR's are mostly useless in my opinion. Usually several people evaluate each file and give it a score. We then create the list based on these scores. Because our lists are much longer than yours, we don't spend much time agonizing on who is ranked #40 and who is #41, instead I focus on who I want in the top 1/3, middle 1/3, bottom 1/3, and not on the list at all.

Just so that I don't create a wave of insomnia, the last category is very small -- most IM programs will rank almost everyone they interview.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I really appreciate your help. It is a stressful time after 8 years of school.
 
Jimmy--Mind telling us which program that was? That is definitely in dischord with things I've heard from other EM PD's.
 
Let me just add one thing. Do not choose to leave a program off your rank list unless you know you would rather go unmatched than go to that program. It may be less desirable a location, or a lesser known program, but in the end if you don't match you will be in a world of hurt and you may not be able to train in your desired specialty that year. Think carefully about this even if you are the greatest applicant ever to apply. You never know if it will happen to you. Programs mislead you because they are looking to fill their program high off their rank list.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.